When was the Messiah put in the grave? and when did He resurrect?
- Thread starter Hizikyah
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Another reason that we know that Jesus was speaking of being his body being in the literal tomb for 3 days and 3 nights is because of the following prophesy regarding Jesus in Isaiah:
"Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will rest secure, because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay."
With all due respect coming from a denomination similar to yours for approx 30 years where I did get saved ..My home church we do have our differences.
Without parables the poetic signified language of God, Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God, spoke not.
It’s the problem with literalist. They miss the spiritual application and walk by sight as if the kingdom of God was here. .
The words three day in the tomb would have been written three days in the tomb I believe if that is was meant. . It refers to a living suffering, Just as with Jonas. The hour of suffering began in the garden
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Without parables the poetic signified language of God, Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God, spoke not.
It’s the problem with literalist. They miss the spiritual application and walk by sight as if the kingdom of God was here. .
The words three day in the tomb would have been written three days in the tomb I believe if that is was meant. . It refers to a living suffering, Just as with Jonas. The hour of suffering began in the garden
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
I would not say always. I think everyone is in a learning process. But would offer the prescription for understanding parables is always as a way of bringing to light the hidden things of darkness. I think the heart of the earth represents the darkness of suffering a heart . And is why Christ wrote names in the earth when other accused others of not keeping the law perfectly.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
I would think it would point to the end of the matter below. Again in respect to a living suffering. The father strengthening the Son , giving Christ rest from his work. Just as the father gave rest from Jonas work .
We know he was working indicated by the word sweat. As if it was drops of literal blood .Using blood in that parable in indicate the pouring out of His spirit life in jeopardy of His own Spirit.
(defining the phrase "drink the blood", doing the will of another)
Fulfilling the prophecy of Joel; I will pour out my Spirit .(as if it was literal blood)
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow, Luk 22:42
He put the disciples asleep to show we can have no part in the suffering. The work is attributed to the father and the Son.
Incorrect, there are no commas in the greek, so where one put the comma changes the meaning, and the dead sleep until the resurrection, none are in the kingdom now (other than Yahshua, Elijah, etc. because of translation) we await the return of Messiah.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:50-54, “Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yah; neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The only people Scripture says that are already in the heavens with Yah is Enoch, Eliyah, Mosheh, and the 24 elders, which Enoch, Eliyah, Mosheh may be a part of. Note Yahshua says “when you see Enoch, Eliyah, Mosheh in the Kingdom” so they are in the heavens now but will be in the Kingdom on Earth when it is established. So the way I see it in Scripture 24-27 people are there now and the rest join the when judgment is final at the resurrection/ascension.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 9:5, For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know naught, nor do they have any more reward, for their remembrance is forgotten."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 31:5, Into Your hand I commit my spirit; You have redeemed me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ěl of truth."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 12:1-7, Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come, and the years draw near when you say, “I have no pleasure in them”:"Ecclesiastes 12:2, Before the sun and the light, the moon and the stars, are darkened, and the clouds return after the rain;"Ecclesiastes 12:3, in the day when the guards of the house tremble, and the strong men shall bow down; when the grinders shall cease because they are few, and those that look through the windows shall become dim;"Ecclesiastes 12:4, and the doors shall be shut in the streets, and the sound of grinding is low; and one rises up at the sound of a bird, and all the daughters of song are bowed down;"Ecclesiastes 12:5, furthermore, they are afraid of what is high, and of low places in the way; and the almond tree blossoms, and the grasshopper becomes a burden, and desire perishes. For man is going to his everlasting home, and the mourners shall go about the streets."Ecclesiastes 12:6, Remember Him before the silver cord is loosed, or the golden bowl is broken, or the jar shattered at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the well,"Ecclesiastes 12:7, and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to Elohim who gave it."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 12:10, in whose hand is the life of all that live, and the breath of all mankind?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 5:23, “And you have lifted yourself up against the Master of the heavens. And they brought before you the vessels of His house, and you and your great men, your wives and your concubines, have been drinking wine from them. And you have praised the elahin of silver, and of gold, of bronze, of iron, of wood, and of stone, which neither see nor hear nor know. But the Elah who holds your breath in His hand and owns all your ways, you have not made great."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 23:46, And crying out with a loud voice, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Psa 31:5 And having said this, He breathed His last."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 9:5, For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know naught, nor do they have any more reward, for their remembrance is forgotten."Ecclesiastes 9:6, Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy have now perished; and they no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 14:21, His sons come to esteem, and he does not know it. And they are brought low, and he does not perceive it."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:26, For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 2:16, For there is no more lasting remembrance of the wise than of the fool, since in the days to come all is forgotten. And how does a wise man die? With the fool!"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 115:17, The dead do not praise Yah, Nor any going down to silence."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 13:3, “Look! Answer me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]my Strength; Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep in death.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 14:12, “and man shall lie down and not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they awake not, nor are aroused from their sleep.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 17:13, “If I wait – She’ol is my house, I shall make my bed in darkness."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 17:16, Would it sink down into She’ol? Would we together go down into the dust?”"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 12:2, and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth wake up, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches, everlasting abhorrence."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 9:5, "For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 20:5-6, "But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection; on such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of Yahweh and of the Messiah, and will reign with Him a thousand years."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 9:24, “He said to them, “Go back, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping.” And they laughed at Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 20:14-15, "And Death and Sheol were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in The Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."
why would we need/have a resurreection if everyonw waws already there?
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, “Now, brothers, we do not wish you to be ignorant concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you be sad as others who have no expectation. For if we believe that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]died and rose again, so also Yah shall bring with Him those who sleep in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. For this we say to you by the word of the Master, that we, the living who are left over at the coming of the Master shall in no way go before those who are asleep. Because the Master Himself shall come down from heaven with a shout, with the voice of a chief messenger, and with the trumpet of Yah, and the dead in Messiah shall rise first. Then we, the living who are left over, shall be caught away together with them in the clouds to meet the Master in the air – and so we shall always be with the Master. So, then, encourage one another with these words."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:50-54, “Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yah; neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The only people Scripture says that are already in the heavens with Yah is Enoch, Eliyah, Mosheh, and the 24 elders, which Enoch, Eliyah, Mosheh may be a part of. Note Yahshua says “when you see Enoch, Eliyah, Mosheh in the Kingdom” so they are in the heavens now but will be in the Kingdom on Earth when it is established. So the way I see it in Scripture 24-27 people are there now and the rest join the when judgment is final at the resurrection/ascension.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 9:5, For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know naught, nor do they have any more reward, for their remembrance is forgotten."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 31:5, Into Your hand I commit my spirit; You have redeemed me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ěl of truth."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 12:1-7, Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come, and the years draw near when you say, “I have no pleasure in them”:"Ecclesiastes 12:2, Before the sun and the light, the moon and the stars, are darkened, and the clouds return after the rain;"Ecclesiastes 12:3, in the day when the guards of the house tremble, and the strong men shall bow down; when the grinders shall cease because they are few, and those that look through the windows shall become dim;"Ecclesiastes 12:4, and the doors shall be shut in the streets, and the sound of grinding is low; and one rises up at the sound of a bird, and all the daughters of song are bowed down;"Ecclesiastes 12:5, furthermore, they are afraid of what is high, and of low places in the way; and the almond tree blossoms, and the grasshopper becomes a burden, and desire perishes. For man is going to his everlasting home, and the mourners shall go about the streets."Ecclesiastes 12:6, Remember Him before the silver cord is loosed, or the golden bowl is broken, or the jar shattered at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the well,"Ecclesiastes 12:7, and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to Elohim who gave it."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 12:10, in whose hand is the life of all that live, and the breath of all mankind?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 5:23, “And you have lifted yourself up against the Master of the heavens. And they brought before you the vessels of His house, and you and your great men, your wives and your concubines, have been drinking wine from them. And you have praised the elahin of silver, and of gold, of bronze, of iron, of wood, and of stone, which neither see nor hear nor know. But the Elah who holds your breath in His hand and owns all your ways, you have not made great."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 23:46, And crying out with a loud voice, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Psa 31:5 And having said this, He breathed His last."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 9:5, For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know naught, nor do they have any more reward, for their remembrance is forgotten."Ecclesiastes 9:6, Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy have now perished; and they no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 14:21, His sons come to esteem, and he does not know it. And they are brought low, and he does not perceive it."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:26, For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 2:16, For there is no more lasting remembrance of the wise than of the fool, since in the days to come all is forgotten. And how does a wise man die? With the fool!"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 115:17, The dead do not praise Yah, Nor any going down to silence."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 13:3, “Look! Answer me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]my Strength; Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep in death.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 14:12, “and man shall lie down and not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they awake not, nor are aroused from their sleep.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 17:13, “If I wait – She’ol is my house, I shall make my bed in darkness."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 17:16, Would it sink down into She’ol? Would we together go down into the dust?”"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 12:2, and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth wake up, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches, everlasting abhorrence."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 9:5, "For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 20:5-6, "But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection; on such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of Yahweh and of the Messiah, and will reign with Him a thousand years."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 9:24, “He said to them, “Go back, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping.” And they laughed at Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 20:14-15, "And Death and Sheol were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in The Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."
why would we need/have a resurreection if everyonw waws already there?
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, “Now, brothers, we do not wish you to be ignorant concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you be sad as others who have no expectation. For if we believe that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]died and rose again, so also Yah shall bring with Him those who sleep in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. For this we say to you by the word of the Master, that we, the living who are left over at the coming of the Master shall in no way go before those who are asleep. Because the Master Himself shall come down from heaven with a shout, with the voice of a chief messenger, and with the trumpet of Yah, and the dead in Messiah shall rise first. Then we, the living who are left over, shall be caught away together with them in the clouds to meet the Master in the air – and so we shall always be with the Master. So, then, encourage one another with these words."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”[/FONT]
John 3:13 reveals that no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.
Heaven Defined
“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them”
This word heavens refers to two different heavens. (Gen. 2:1)
The first heaven consists of the Earth’s atmosphere. The second heaven is
the vast reaches of space beyond the atmosphere.
There is also a third heaven: the home of God. The Apostle Paul saw this “third heaven,”
where God’s throne is, in a vision (ii Cor. 12:1-2). This vision was so intensely realistic
that Paul was unable to tell if he was physically there, or if he was seeing it in his mind.
In Heb. 4:14, the phrase “into the heavens,” should be translated “through the heavens.”
We see that Jesus Christ passed through the first two heavens—Earth’s atmosphere and
outer space—as He ascended to the third heaven.
Certainly many have ascended to the first and second heavens by aircraft, spacecraft and
other means,this verse can only refer to the third heaven, where the Almighty God resides.
Some have said that Elijah ascended to heaven, which he did—but not to the third
heaven. He was taken by chariots of fire up into the first heaven (ii Kings 2:11).
The Hebrew word used for heaven here is the same as in Genesis 2:1.
Elijah did not die during this experience. In fact, Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram
years after this event (ii Chron. 21:12). Elijah had been miraculously transported to
another location on Earth.
-
Yes Heaven is not, as some believe, the future home of any man, righteous or not.
Revelation 5:10 shows that God’s saints will reign not in heaven but “on the earth.”
Revelation 21 and 22 describe the coming time when God the Father and heavenly
Jerusalem will come down to Earth after it has been purified. In other words, man
is not going to heaven—God is coming here!
Heaven Defined
“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them”
This word heavens refers to two different heavens. (Gen. 2:1)
The first heaven consists of the Earth’s atmosphere. The second heaven is
the vast reaches of space beyond the atmosphere.
There is also a third heaven: the home of God. The Apostle Paul saw this “third heaven,”
where God’s throne is, in a vision (ii Cor. 12:1-2). This vision was so intensely realistic
that Paul was unable to tell if he was physically there, or if he was seeing it in his mind.
In Heb. 4:14, the phrase “into the heavens,” should be translated “through the heavens.”
We see that Jesus Christ passed through the first two heavens—Earth’s atmosphere and
outer space—as He ascended to the third heaven.
Certainly many have ascended to the first and second heavens by aircraft, spacecraft and
other means,this verse can only refer to the third heaven, where the Almighty God resides.
Some have said that Elijah ascended to heaven, which he did—but not to the third
heaven. He was taken by chariots of fire up into the first heaven (ii Kings 2:11).
The Hebrew word used for heaven here is the same as in Genesis 2:1.
Elijah did not die during this experience. In fact, Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram
years after this event (ii Chron. 21:12). Elijah had been miraculously transported to
another location on Earth.
-
Yes Heaven is not, as some believe, the future home of any man, righteous or not.
Revelation 5:10 shows that God’s saints will reign not in heaven but “on the earth.”
Revelation 21 and 22 describe the coming time when God the Father and heavenly
Jerusalem will come down to Earth after it has been purified. In other words, man
is not going to heaven—God is coming here!
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Enoch Walked With God (Gen. 5:22)
At the age of 65 Enoch had a son named Methuselah.
"And Enoch walked with God [after] he begat Methuselah
three hundred years, and he begat sons and daughters"
.
Hebrews 11:6 the apostle said, "But without faith it is impossible
to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
So He obeyed God, and followed Him in His paths by faith.
Amos the prophet said: "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
The scripture says that he "walked with God after he begat Methuselah
three hundred years." So Enoch followed God's ways for three hundred years.
Moses did not record that Enoch [is still] walking with God.
"all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" If Enoch did
not die - if he were changed to immortality - and thus continued to walk with God,
then his days would have been more than three hundred and sixty-five years.
Enoch's Translation
Moses wrote that "Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God
took him" (Gen. 5:24). Paul records the same event by saying that he
"was not found, because God had translated him" (Heb. 11:5).
That Enoch was not found because God took him, or "translated" him.
The Bible does not say that Enoch went to heaven when he was translated.
Instead it says he was not found. Certainly Enoch was "translated,"
The original Greek word for "translate" is metatithemi.
According to Arndt-Gingrich's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament,
1969 edition, the primary meaning is to "convey to another place ... transfer"
Jacob died his body was "carried over"
This same Greek word is rendered "carried over" in Acts 7:16.
Here we read that after Jacob died his body was "carried over"
- transported, translated - to Sychem where he was buried!
Jacob was transported or translated to the place of burial!
That is why Moses said that God took Enoch. God removed - translated
- him so that he was not found. God took Enoch and buried him!
Moses died and was buried by God
In Deuteronomy 34:6 we read also how God took Moses from the people
after which he died and was buried by God. "But no man knoweth his
sepulchre unto this day." God removed Moses - God translated him -
and he was not found either!
He was taken away and was not found. All his days were three hundred
and sixty-five! That's as long as Enoch lived.
Colossians 1:13: the Father "hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath [translated us] into the kingdom of his dear Son." Here the Bible
says that Christians are already translated - but Christians still die!
What was the promise ?
Enoch is included by Paul (in Hebrews 11) among the fathers who obtained
a good report through faith; but"these all , having obtained a good report
through faith, received not the promise" (Heb. 11:39).
The "hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie,
promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2).
Enoch and all the worthies of old will receive the promise of eternal life
at the return of Christ, the same time Christians obtain it (Heb. 11:40)
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises."
Paul tells us: Abel, Enoch, Noah, and the patriarchs and their wives. Heb 11:1-12
lists those who had faith and Enoch is included among them. Then in verse 13 Paul
proved that they had not inherited the promises by saying:
"These all [including Enoch] died in faith." But what about Paul's saying that Enoch
"should not see death"? There is more than one death mentioned in the Bible.
There is a first death, and there is a second death (Rev. 20:6).
The first death is appointed unto men (Heb. 9:27). That death cannot
be humanly evaded. It is inevitable, and that death Enoch died.
But Paul was not writing about that death. The phrase "should not see"
is in the conditional tense of the verb, having reference to a future event.
It is not in the past tense, that he "did not see" death - but that he
"should not see death." So this death that Enoch escaped by being
translated is one that he can escape in the future on certain conditions!
In John 8:51 Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying,
he shall never see death" - shall never see - that is, suffer - the second death!
And again in John 11:26, "Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die"
- or "shall not die forever."
The death which Enoch should escape must be the second death which will
never touch those who are in the first resurrection (Rev. 20:6).
And Enoch will be in the first resurrection because he met the conditions!
The second death shall never touch Enoch,because of his faith and obedience.
Enoch had faith. He believed God and walked with God, obeying Him.
Jesus did not speak of Himself, but spoke what the Father commanded Him.
God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony,
that he pleased God."
At the age of 65 Enoch had a son named Methuselah.
"And Enoch walked with God [after] he begat Methuselah
three hundred years, and he begat sons and daughters"
.
Hebrews 11:6 the apostle said, "But without faith it is impossible
to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
So He obeyed God, and followed Him in His paths by faith.
Amos the prophet said: "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
The scripture says that he "walked with God after he begat Methuselah
three hundred years." So Enoch followed God's ways for three hundred years.
Moses did not record that Enoch [is still] walking with God.
"all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" If Enoch did
not die - if he were changed to immortality - and thus continued to walk with God,
then his days would have been more than three hundred and sixty-five years.
Enoch's Translation
Moses wrote that "Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God
took him" (Gen. 5:24). Paul records the same event by saying that he
"was not found, because God had translated him" (Heb. 11:5).
That Enoch was not found because God took him, or "translated" him.
The Bible does not say that Enoch went to heaven when he was translated.
Instead it says he was not found. Certainly Enoch was "translated,"
The original Greek word for "translate" is metatithemi.
According to Arndt-Gingrich's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament,
1969 edition, the primary meaning is to "convey to another place ... transfer"
Jacob died his body was "carried over"
This same Greek word is rendered "carried over" in Acts 7:16.
Here we read that after Jacob died his body was "carried over"
- transported, translated - to Sychem where he was buried!
Jacob was transported or translated to the place of burial!
That is why Moses said that God took Enoch. God removed - translated
- him so that he was not found. God took Enoch and buried him!
Moses died and was buried by God
In Deuteronomy 34:6 we read also how God took Moses from the people
after which he died and was buried by God. "But no man knoweth his
sepulchre unto this day." God removed Moses - God translated him -
and he was not found either!
He was taken away and was not found. All his days were three hundred
and sixty-five! That's as long as Enoch lived.
Colossians 1:13: the Father "hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath [translated us] into the kingdom of his dear Son." Here the Bible
says that Christians are already translated - but Christians still die!
What was the promise ?
Enoch is included by Paul (in Hebrews 11) among the fathers who obtained
a good report through faith; but"these all , having obtained a good report
through faith, received not the promise" (Heb. 11:39).
The "hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie,
promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2).
Enoch and all the worthies of old will receive the promise of eternal life
at the return of Christ, the same time Christians obtain it (Heb. 11:40)
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises."
Paul tells us: Abel, Enoch, Noah, and the patriarchs and their wives. Heb 11:1-12
lists those who had faith and Enoch is included among them. Then in verse 13 Paul
proved that they had not inherited the promises by saying:
"These all [including Enoch] died in faith." But what about Paul's saying that Enoch
"should not see death"? There is more than one death mentioned in the Bible.
There is a first death, and there is a second death (Rev. 20:6).
The first death is appointed unto men (Heb. 9:27). That death cannot
be humanly evaded. It is inevitable, and that death Enoch died.
But Paul was not writing about that death. The phrase "should not see"
is in the conditional tense of the verb, having reference to a future event.
It is not in the past tense, that he "did not see" death - but that he
"should not see death." So this death that Enoch escaped by being
translated is one that he can escape in the future on certain conditions!
In John 8:51 Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying,
he shall never see death" - shall never see - that is, suffer - the second death!
And again in John 11:26, "Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die"
- or "shall not die forever."
The death which Enoch should escape must be the second death which will
never touch those who are in the first resurrection (Rev. 20:6).
And Enoch will be in the first resurrection because he met the conditions!
The second death shall never touch Enoch,because of his faith and obedience.
Enoch had faith. He believed God and walked with God, obeying Him.
Jesus did not speak of Himself, but spoke what the Father commanded Him.
God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony,
that he pleased God."
But many that are
first shall
be
last; and
the
last
first.
Mark 10:31, Matthew 19:30
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Psalms 17:15
As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness:
I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Isaiah 66:8 (KJV)
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?
for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness:
I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Isaiah 66:8 (KJV)
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?
for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
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Jesus died in the Garden of Gethsemane, on Thursday evening: Our sin placed on him.
"Nineveh was an exceeding great city of 3 days journey, and Jonah began to enter the city a days journey and He cried,"...
Thursday evening to Friday morning, Jesus in the grave with the Religious leaders who are white washed graves.
Friday evening Jesus cries, end of first day, the rest is simple enough to figure out.
"Nineveh was an exceeding great city of 3 days journey, and Jonah began to enter the city a days journey and He cried,"...
Thursday evening to Friday morning, Jesus in the grave with the Religious leaders who are white washed graves.
Friday evening Jesus cries, end of first day, the rest is simple enough to figure out.
Jesus has died wilily if you can read between the lines.
"Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs?[SUP] [/SUP]Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns.”
Also those who suffer with Him are following Him in his death, this happens when we are in the body as well.
"Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs?[SUP] [/SUP]Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns.”
Also those who suffer with Him are following Him in his death, this happens when we are in the body as well.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:1-2, "13:1, "And before the Festival of the Passover, יהושע knowing that His hour had come that He should move out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end."13:2, "And supper taking place, the devil having already put it into the heart of Yehuḏah (Judas Iscariot) from Qerioth, son of Shim‛on, to deliver Him up,"
Isayah 53[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1, "Who has believed our report? And to whom was the arm of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]revealed?"2, "For He grew up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or splendor that we should look upon Him, nor appearance that we should desire Him –"3, "despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and knowing sickness. And as one from whom the face is hidden, being despised, and we did not consider Him."4, "Truly, He has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains. Yet we reckoned Him smitten·, stricken by Yah, and afflicted."5, "But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our crookednesses. The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed."6, "We all, like sheep, went astray, each one of us has turned to his own way. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has laid on Him the crookedness of us all."7, "He was oppressed and He was afflicted, but He did not open His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, but He did not open His mouth."8, "He was taken from prison and from judgment. And as for His generation, who considered that He shall be cut off from the land of the living? For the transgression of My people He was stricken."9, "And He was appointed a burial-site with the wrong, and with the rich at His death, because He had done no violence, nor was deceit in His mouth.10, "But [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]was pleased to crush Him, He laid sickness on Him, that when He made Himself an offering for guilt, He would see a seed, He would prolong His days and the pleasure of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]prosper in His hand."11, "He would see the result of the suffering of His life and be satisfied. Through His knowledge My righteous Servant makes many righteous, and He bears their crookednesses."12, "Therefore I give Him a portion among the great, and He divides the spoil with the strong, because He poured out His being unto death, and He was counted with the transgressors, and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."[/FONT]
Isayah 53[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1, "Who has believed our report? And to whom was the arm of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]revealed?"2, "For He grew up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or splendor that we should look upon Him, nor appearance that we should desire Him –"3, "despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and knowing sickness. And as one from whom the face is hidden, being despised, and we did not consider Him."4, "Truly, He has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains. Yet we reckoned Him smitten·, stricken by Yah, and afflicted."5, "But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our crookednesses. The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed."6, "We all, like sheep, went astray, each one of us has turned to his own way. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has laid on Him the crookedness of us all."7, "He was oppressed and He was afflicted, but He did not open His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, but He did not open His mouth."8, "He was taken from prison and from judgment. And as for His generation, who considered that He shall be cut off from the land of the living? For the transgression of My people He was stricken."9, "And He was appointed a burial-site with the wrong, and with the rich at His death, because He had done no violence, nor was deceit in His mouth.10, "But [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]was pleased to crush Him, He laid sickness on Him, that when He made Himself an offering for guilt, He would see a seed, He would prolong His days and the pleasure of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]prosper in His hand."11, "He would see the result of the suffering of His life and be satisfied. Through His knowledge My righteous Servant makes many righteous, and He bears their crookednesses."12, "Therefore I give Him a portion among the great, and He divides the spoil with the strong, because He poured out His being unto death, and He was counted with the transgressors, and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."[/FONT]
Hi Garee,
Very refreshing to read, anyone having good understanding of parable language (hidden meaning) should get a recommendation. It sad that understanding mysteries does not help to grow in Love, but on the bright side those who don't understand have as much Hope to grow up in Christ, and we don't need to try an help God. Be blessed and refreshed, am also fascinated by mysteries.
Very refreshing to read, anyone having good understanding of parable language (hidden meaning) should get a recommendation. It sad that understanding mysteries does not help to grow in Love, but on the bright side those who don't understand have as much Hope to grow up in Christ, and we don't need to try an help God. Be blessed and refreshed, am also fascinated by mysteries.
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This says noting of 3 days and nights, it only prophesy that Jesus would be in the Tomb and resurrection to life, you have to read into the Scriptures to say He would be in the Tomb for the 3 days and nights. Now if you read all of Isaiah 53 it is what Jesus teaches in Matthew 20:17-19
“And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them,18 “See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”
What is this teaching and go read every teaching where Jesus taught about His atoning work He never says He would be in the Tomb for 3 days and nights, He tauth He would suffer many things. Even the angel in Luke24:6-7 says noting of 3 days and nights.
“He is not here, but has risen. Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee,7 that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise.”
The same thing Jesus taught in Matthew 20, if you read all of Luke 24 the disciples nor Jesus never taught He would be in the Tomb for that time and not one person that believes this has posted one Scripture where this is clearly taught as He taught in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, with Matthew 20:17-19 being an example of all Jesus' techings on His atoning work.
“And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them,18 “See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”
What is this teaching and go read every teaching where Jesus taught about His atoning work He never says He would be in the Tomb for 3 days and nights, He tauth He would suffer many things. Even the angel in Luke24:6-7 says noting of 3 days and nights.
“He is not here, but has risen. Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee,7 that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise.”
The same thing Jesus taught in Matthew 20, if you read all of Luke 24 the disciples nor Jesus never taught He would be in the Tomb for that time and not one person that believes this has posted one Scripture where this is clearly taught as He taught in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, with Matthew 20:17-19 being an example of all Jesus' techings on His atoning work.
You still have not answered this question, what is Jesus teaching in Matthew 20:17-19
“And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them,18 “See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”
Once you answer that we can move on to other things, please answer the question.