Not By Works

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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By faith we find grace in the sight of our Heavenly Father, but if we do not demonstrate gratitude for the gift of faith, then we will lose that faith.

Do not say in your heart, "I have faith, therefore I am superior to all." If you do not use your faith, yes, use it, it is worthless and no faith at all.

Be a willing servant of the King, and your reward will be great; say you are a servant of the King without serving and you only delude yourself.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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We are the children of Abraham, children of faith, children of the promise:

Isa 29:22 "Therefore, this is what the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, says concerning the house of Jacob: 'No longer will Jacob be ashamed; no longer will his face grow pale.

Isa 29:23 For when he sees in his midst his children, the work of my hands, they will keep my name holy; they will sanctify the Holy One of Jacob and stand in awe of the God of Israel.

Isa 29:24 Moreover, those who go astray in spirit will gain understanding, and those who complain will accept instruction.'"



 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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I wasn't trying to say that Jesus is the lasagna. I was trying to say that when He "seals" (saves) us, that we don't become unsaved just because the cover on the lasagna may "unseal" when you take it out of the fridge.. Salvation is forever, but lasagna is temporary. Either it gets eaten, or sits in the fridge and rots.. Jesus isn't an Indian giver, he doesn't grant us salvation then snatch it away from us when we screw up.. Thank God our salvation isn't an unsecure seal on a food dish that can remove itself if it wasn't put on properly!!


Again I state that your analogy falls short of credible and is ignorant.....because to compare the work of the eternal GOD and his HOLY SPIRIT to a bowl of lasagna in the refrigerator is not only stupid, but borders on idiotic....

Second....YOUR QUOTE was false because UNTIL BLUE posted what she posted NO ONE that I KNOW of has tried to TWIST your faulty analogy into saying that JESUS is the lasagna.

Originally Posted by PHart
Yes, it is sad that there are people here who twist the analogy so that Jesus is the Lasagna in the hope of ridiculing it instead of using scripture to discuss what I actually said.

You know what they say, if you can't beat an argument, ridicule it.

MY POST in LIGHT of the above....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Now you are just lying....you compared the sealing of the HOLY SPIRIT unto a bowl of lasagna that can be unsealed....NO ONE has twisted anything to make it say or imply that JESUS is the lasagna....

MAN you are a deceiver extraordinaire.....


New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever;
there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

YOUR view calls GOD a liar, devalues the work of the HOLY SPIRIT, makes JESUS into a weak, inept liar that cannot keep his word.....

WHEN GOD SEALS someone they are SEALED forever....see above verse and get right!
 
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[video=youtube;CC5ca6Hsb2Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC5ca6Hsb2Q[/video]
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I do not believe one who truly believes can stop believing truly.
One who truly believes continues to truly believe. Those who do not continue to believe demonstrate that their belief was not firmly rooted and established from the start. Saving belief continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.

They/we can certainly fall away into the troubles of this world, but the foundation that was laid by Jesus cannot and will not crumble.
Outward troubles and failings do NOT mean loss of salvation.
Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. No loss of salvation there.

I find it interesting that the term "fall away" was used by Jesus of His 11 disciples at the time of His arrest. The disciples deserted Jesus as was predicted and Peter obviously denied Jesus three times.

In Matthew 26:31, Jesus said - "This very night you will all fall away on account of me," for it is written: ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’ No loss of salvation there either.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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You lecture me about using a common slang term stating I think something is funny. So yes you are being over judgmental and hyper sensitive.
You weren't lectured by me. Also, you have me confused with someone else who called you on your poor choice of slang.

So, it's wrong to use judgment?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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I wasn't trying to say that Jesus is the lasagna. I was trying to say that when He "seals" (saves) us, that we don't become unsaved just because the cover on the lasagna may "unseal" when you take it out of the fridge.. Salvation is forever, but lasagna is temporary. Either it gets eaten, or sits in the fridge and rots.. Jesus isn't an Indian giver, he doesn't grant us salvation then snatch it away from us when we screw up.. Thank God our salvation isn't an unsecure seal on a food dish that can remove itself if it wasn't put on properly!!
While I agree with you there are denominations that believe that when you sin you are in danger of losing your salvation if you don't repent and ask forgiveness. I totally disagree with them. I have a close friend that goes to one of those churches.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Nothing you say amounts to a hill of beans...why? Because no one has even come close to saying the rigmarole you push and or ascribe to us....and your sinless perfectionist working for attitude that rejects all the verses ands scripture that states none are without sin until the body is fully redeemed does not allow you to see the truth.....nor do you comprehend that we still pack around a fallen, wicked body of sin that is not subject unto the law of God neither indeed can be....there is a process of sanctification that is a DAILY process with successes and failures and until you open your eyes to this you will continue to miss the ark, ascribe things to us that is not stated or implied and continue to post irrelevant points based upon faulty foundations.....direct your "I am sinless" drivel someplace else.......this thread is about salvation by grace through faith without works helping one get saved, stay saved or keep salvation............start your own I AM SINLESS thread so you can boast of how good you are like the Pharisee of old.....


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WERE YOU SENT BY GOD?

Luke 6:43-45 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. FOR OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF HIS HEART , HIS MOUTH SPEAKS..

WHO ARE CLAIMING TO BE “STILL SINNERS” OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF THEIR HEART???

John 3:34 For the one whom GOD HAS SENT speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.



This thread and it’s author implies that there’s no need for works to a FAITH ALONE that SAVES(faith void of works).

SALVATION IS NOT BY WORKS IF IT’S APART FROM FAITH (eph 2:8-9) JUST AS FAITH ALONE APART FROM WORKS OF LOVE,OBEDIENCE AND FAITH IS DEAD (james 2:14-26)

IF WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE (eph 5:23) AREN’T WE EXPECTED TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS (john 14:12-15)AND DO HIS WORKS OF SALVATION (1cor 3:9, 12:28 mat 25:21-30, 9:37-38 eph 4:12-13, rom 12: 3-8, 1 tim 4:16) AS WE ARE TO DO HIS WILL HERE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN (mat 6:10)

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME AND TO FINISH HIS WORK. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I SENT YOU to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.”

John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and WHICH I AM DOING, TESTIFIES that the Father has SENT me.

John 6:39-40 And this is the will of him who SENT me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM, SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, WE MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

John 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have SENT THEM into the world.

John 20:21-22 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I AM SENDING YOU.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

ONE SURE WAY TO RECOGNIZE THOSE WHO WERE NOT SENT ACCORDING TO THE VERSES ABOVE IS TO KNOW WHAT THEY DO.

DO THEY PREACH AGAINST THE WORKS THAT GOD HAS PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO BY SAYING THAT: “FAITH ALONE SAVES AND IT IS VOID OF WORKS.”?

DO THEY PREACH THAT; “WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS.”?
THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDMENTS CANNOT SAVE EVEN THOSE BELIEVERS WHO CONFESS WITH THEIR MOUTHS THAT JESUS IS LORD AND BELIEVE IN THEIR HEARTS THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

DO THEY PREACH THAT SINCE THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE SAVED REGARDLESS OF THEIR WILLFUL AND CONTINUOUS SINNING(manifested by their arguments against those who push for continuous faith and are against willful sinning).

DO THEY PROMOTE SIN BY SAYING THAT THOSE WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT THOSE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT IS A NEW CREATION AND THEREFORE MUST NOT SIN OR CEASE FROM SINNING, ARE LIARS ACCDG. TO 1JOHN 1:8 WHICH THEY LOVE TO QUOTE BUT REJECTING THE WHOLE TRUTH EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLE? WHICH ONLY PROVES THIS VERSES BELOW TO BE TRUE:

Romans 8:5-9 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds SET ON WHAT THE SPIRIT DESIRES. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, HE DOES NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.

WOULD THE SPIRIT OF GOD DESIRE SIN?

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11,15-20 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT .MY FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us.

Romans 6:21-23 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ASHAMED OF? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been SET FREE FROM SIN and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to HOLINESS, and the result is ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but also APPROVE of those who practice them.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of THEIR FOLLOWERS, who APPROVE their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

THEREFORE:

Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? AND HOW CAN THEY PREACH UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I guess you missed my post today, PHart.

The seal is circumcision which happens when we are converted. This is why we experience an instant change. We know we are different, and out minds and heart begins seeking the Lord.

Rom 4:11 Afterward he received the mark of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. Therefore, he is the ancestor of all who believe while uncircumcised, in order that righteousness may be credited to them.

Speaking of Abraham here.

Babies became citizens of Israel on the 8th day of life, and they were circumcised. 8 is the number of new beginnings.

We being born again, receive circumcision of flesh too by the act of conversion, and begin a new life. In Spirit.

How can one circumcised, become uncircumcised?
His café blend theology would have a boy who has been circumcised be able to UNDO it at a later date......or like EG has used....NOAH would have been able to open the door on the ARK and bailed out........such a degrading slap in the face to God...
 
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We've already decided which way we go Phart. And I don't know how many times it's been said that we won't be at the Great White Throne judgement. The judgement seat of Christ, which IMO, is the day we die. Then we are with Him forever.

I don't know what bible you are reading. Plus, have you forgotten your conversion experience? The day you said yes to the Lord? And the zeal of salvation filling you up? Knowing you were saved? How could one ever change back to the old man that is dead? And the thrill of living through Holy Spirit? Hearing His Voice?

Put the flesh somehow back back on our heart? When it was something the Lord did for us?

Do you believe what you read? Not trying to be a wise guy. Girl.
His theology, like one of those cheap boxed coffee flavored milks, rejects the truth that works in a believer determine inheritance not where we will spend eternity.....it falls way short of a Latte or Café Caramel from Starbucks........it also states and sets forth a lack of understanding that we will go to the BEMA seat of Christ and not the GREAT WHITE THRONE of Revelation.......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I wasn't trying to say that Jesus is the lasagna. I was trying to say that when He "seals" (saves) us, that we don't become unsaved just because the cover on the lasagna may "unseal" when you take it out of the fridge.. Salvation is forever, but lasagna is temporary. Either it gets eaten, or sits in the fridge and rots.. Jesus isn't an Indian giver, he doesn't grant us salvation then snatch it away from us when we screw up.. Thank God our salvation isn't an unsecure seal on a food dish that can remove itself if it wasn't put on properly!!
AMEN Blue.....and I agree.....fully....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Oh...I don't know! Probably NLT. It's what I recall verses from because its what I read until it fell apart!:)

New Living Translation
Israel is no stronger than its capital, Samaria, and Samaria is no stronger than its king, Pekah son of Remaliah. Unless your faith is firm, I cannot make you stand firm."

And the context is not salvation.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Strep throat/ bronchitis :p joys of parenthood

Oh that sucks.....Strep is bad deal if not treated....My niece got it and no one knew...she started doing all kinds of wierd things like uncontrollable muscle movements, could not eat with a fork, would like a fish flip off the couch etc...walking like she had some nuro disorder etc.......after a lot of testing and my idiot brother thinking she was just acting out they figured she had strep....and strep if left untreated will attack the heart, brain etc......she had to take antibiotics for a year and if she had gotten strep again in that time it could have killed her.....was a bad deal.....sorry your sick
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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While I agree with you there are denominations that believe that when you sin you are in danger of losing your salvation if you don't repent and ask forgiveness. I totally disagree with them. I have a close friend that goes to one of those churches.
Very sad it is.

People take the focus of God and themselves.
Usually to the detriment of relationship between us and the Father.
And is replaced with sin management and that only.
It also affects our relationship with others.

The Father seeks relationship with us.
As we grow more in that relationship our natural man decreases and our new man aligns with him.

To believe that if we don’t repent and confess then it’s hell for us is nothing but a big chain that shackles and binds.

Yea we do get it wrong and when we do we confess it to God, agree with him that we got it wrong, ask for help and thank him for his forgiveness.

Confession restores the relationship and mainly from our side.
We give up the guilt and stuff that goes with.

Matthew 27:50-51 (NKJV)


50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,

That curtain was torn in two, never to sewed back again.
As a result we come before God through faith.
 
P

PHart

Guest

How can one circumcised, become uncircumcised?
Spirit in, Spirit out. It's that simple.

6And he said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing—the utterly detestable things the Israelites are doing here, things that will drive me far from my sanctuary?" (Ezekiel 8:6 NIV)

"
18Then the glory of the LORD departed from the threshold of the temple..." (Ezekiel 10:18 NASB)

Contemptuous unbelief in a willful sinning will cause the Spirit of God to leave his Temple.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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When an indiviual hardens his heart after learning the good ness of God, this is becoming uncircumcised....

I suppose the spirit is no longer there....... only by true repentence will He return.

This is a hard lesson but a good one to receive, it shows the generosity of the love of God in Jesus christ.