Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Ralph,
I think she has a point.
If you aren't saved unless you can prove your good works, then I think you may not be saved.
If you can't prove your good works by apologizing to Magenta, then I think that's proof you're not saved.
And if YOU aren't saved, why should we be listening to you tell us about being saved?
LOL. You don't even know what you are talking about. You claimed something that is patently false and I gave a Scripture to prove it, but you want to pretend it is I who does not understand, and so you go off on all these tangents and refuse to admit you were wrong or that I did indeed certainly understand what you said. You just can't admit you were wrong, nor do you practice what you preach.
R
When a person says they are created in Christ Jesus unto good works but then they don't have those works how can they insist they have been created in Christ Jesus? The person who says they have been created in Christ Jesus unto good works but who doesn't have those good works may well not be created in Christ Jesus at all.
Thank you, and exactly. Ralph was wrong to say salvation and works cannot be separated, and I gave a Scripture to prove it. Rather than admit he is wrong he pretends to know my thinking to cover for the fact that he rejects what Scripture explicitly says. He makes up all kinds of crap to cover his error, goes off on all these tangents rather than deal with the issue at hand, and tries to stick it on me. LOL. What a joke.
R
That's the works we're talking about. What were you thinking works meant? Faith in Christ changes us. If we're still stuck in our old hateful, hurtful, unrighteous, defensive, contentious ways then we have to test to see if we're really in the faith at all.
These kinds of life changes must occur in the believer. Because that's what justification through the forgiveness of sin produces in a person. If that's not happening we have to do as Paul said and test ourselves to see if we're really in the faith. We have to make our calling and election sure to ourselves as the Bible says. We do that by acting out our faith by obeying God's commands. If we can't act out the faith you say you have then you may not have the faith you say you do.
These kinds of life changes must occur in the believer. Because that's what justification through the forgiveness of sin produces in a person. If that's not happening we have to do as Paul said and test ourselves to see if we're really in the faith. We have to make our calling and election sure to ourselves as the Bible says. We do that by acting out our faith by obeying God's commands. If we can't act out the faith you say you have then you may not have the faith you say you do.
I gave a Scripture that proved you wrong. All these red herrings about providing non existent Scriptures do nothing for me; your pompous sermonizing is unwarranted. They were not part of the conversation I was having, but simply your smoke screens and irrelevant tangents to the point at hand. You pretend to know my thinking when you have proved you do not. What you have proved is that you are a hypocrite, and willing to make up fairy tales about Jesus rather than deal with a simple issue.
R
If what you post is not what you are thinking then we are at an impasse here.
Help us all know what you are thinking and show us in the Bible that the person who is still living their old life can be a saved person, if that's what you're thinking. Then I will show you where it says the person living in their old life is not saved.
Help us all know what you are thinking and show us in the Bible that the person who is still living their old life can be a saved person, if that's what you're thinking. Then I will show you where it says the person living in their old life is not saved.
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I already gave the Scripture that proves what you said wrong. Salvation and works are separate, and can be separated. You said they could not be. Why don't you deal with that instead of pretending I am not posting what I think? Your insinuations show very poor character, as does your refusal to admit you are wrong on many points now.
R
Salvation and works of righteousness are inseparable--1 John 3:10, Romans 8:9.
You show us where it says the person without works is saved. That will prove that salvation and works can be separated as you say.
Justification is where works are not necessary. But the salvation that results from justification must cause a person to grow up into righteous living or they don't have the justification they claim to have. That is how salvation and works are inseparable. Even the Ephesians 2 passage you posted says the person created in Christ Jesus is created in Him to good works. How can the person who can't and doesn't do those good works say he is created in Christ Jesus? He can't. You can't separate being created in Christ Jesus to good works from those good works. John and Paul say the person who does that is not saved.
You show us where it says the person without works is saved. That will prove that salvation and works can be separated as you say.
Justification is where works are not necessary. But the salvation that results from justification must cause a person to grow up into righteous living or they don't have the justification they claim to have. That is how salvation and works are inseparable. Even the Ephesians 2 passage you posted says the person created in Christ Jesus is created in Him to good works. How can the person who can't and doesn't do those good works say he is created in Christ Jesus? He can't. You can't separate being created in Christ Jesus to good works from those good works. John and Paul say the person who does that is not saved.