SINNERS!

[Lynx]

In my town the bowling alley is a seedy dive where disreputable people hang out. So my church has a standard against bowling because of that. BOWLING IS SINFUL!

In a town near me the pool hall is a similar seedy dive, and their church has a standard against it for the same reason. THE POOL CUE POINTS STRAIGHT TO HELL!

Playing cards is associated with gambling, so some churches have a standard against playing cards. (Wait, is that still a standard? I know it used to be in some places, but I haven't heard of it lately.) Oh well, no matter... THERE'S AN EVIL JOKER IN YOUR DECK!

Because of the hippy movement and their habit of growing long facial hair as a sign of rebellion against authority, many churches used to have a standard against facial hair. The stigma and the standard against facial hair have faded away in most places, but... THE DEVIL WILL PULL YOU DOWN TO HELL BY YOUR BEARD!

Coffee is... (Oh forget it. That thread in the misc. forum has worn me out about coffee. Somebody else say something here about it. Maybe something about when your grandmother was young she went to a church where the pastor preached against coffee or something.)

This one town I heard of, the local church had a standard against dominoes. (This is a true story.) The problem was, people were skipping church on Sunday night to go to their friends' houses and play dominoes. Dominoes in this town was like golf in some towns - they took it real serious. So many people regularly skipped church that the church put a standard against dominoes. YOU ALSO WILL FALL LIKE YOUR DOMINOES AND TUMBLE INTO HELL!

Anyone get the point yet?

This forum used to be fun. It used to be a cool place where christians could hang out and chat with other christians, and the occasional non-christians who followed the rules and didn't argue about christianity. It used to be an interesting place.

Lately the singles and misc. forums have turned into BDF-wannabes. No matter what you say here, somebody will disagree with you, insult you because you are so stupid as to believe such an idiotic thing and call you not a REAL christian. It has reached the point where I worry every time I make a post in any thread, on any forum, because I know somebody is lurking, waiting to pounce on anything they can twist into an argument.

THIS FORUM IS NO LONGER FUN OR EDIFYING!

Many of the cool people have drifted off, because this forum is no longer fun or edifying. Some of the remaining cool people don't post nearly as much as they could because they are always dreading the expected arguments that ensue. I have considered leaving myself, because it's just not worth it anymore.

Argumentative people: Please chill out. Go back to BDF and argue with like-minded self righteous people. You are killing the only cool forums left in this place.

Wait... that's what you WANT, isn't it...

 

[Lynx]

Mind you, in the examples I used in the OP, each was a valid standard in the church that had that standard. Standards of holiness can change to fit the circumstances. Principles of holiness are unchanging.

But what I see in this forum is not churches criticizing other churches for the standards they have. I see a lot of churches criticizing other churches because "we have this standard and YOU don't, so you aren't REAL christians." I see a lot of that in this forum.

 

[mailmandan]

Mind you, in the examples I used in the OP, each was a valid standard in the church that had that standard. Standards of holiness can change to fit the circumstances. Principles of holiness are unchanging.

But what I see in this forum is not churches criticizing other churches for the standards they have. I see a lot of churches criticizing other churches because "we have this standard and YOU don't, so you aren't REAL christians." I see a lot of that in this forum.

When I first became a Christian, I attended a Baptist church that had a tendency to be judgmental over silly matters. They had all the women wearing long dresses down to their ankles and men wearing suits. Musical instruments during worship were forbidden, except for a piano. That church also had a school and the students who attended their school, had to sign a waiver, agreeing that they will not go to a movie theater and if someone catches you at the movie theater, you can be expelled.

 

[Ugly]

Singles started declining around 2014, gradually. After that the BDF-omites started infecting other areas. That, too, was slow. It's like the frog in the pan. It was all so gradual no one really noticed and it simply became the norm. I've been talking about this for over a year now. To some people, at least.

 

[Adstar]

What is a BDF-omite ??

But anyway i would prefer to operate in a forum where freedom of speech is prized and wayward people tolerated as much as possible. rather then be in a forum where ecumenical fascism is dictated and anyone who dares to say another persons doctrines are wrong or misguided is rewarded with a month worthy of not being allowed to post or a straight out ban..

Yeah things do get ruff in CC forums but at lest the level of freedom of speech is higher here then most forums where suppression and towing the moderators line gives them the feeling of a concentration camp..

 

[Lynx]

Were it the moderators dictating what is discussed, I wouldn't find it nearly as objectionable. This forum is private property after all - if Robo wanted to ban all discussion of the color puce, it would be his right.

Robo has provided a nice forum, Oncefallen keeps it in line as best he can, but it's a shame people have to lie in wait all day for something they can argue about. Just makes it not worth a person's while to make a post here any more.

 

[tourist]

Mind you, in the examples I used in the OP, each was a valid standard in the church that had that standard. Standards of holiness can change to fit the circumstances. Principles of holiness are unchanging.

But what I see in this forum is not churches criticizing other churches for the standards they have. I see a lot of churches criticizing other churches because "we have this standard and YOU don't, so you aren't REAL christians." I see a lot of that in this forum.

I see the same thing. What's a real Christian anyway? Hard to tell sometimes from what I read. Now, you're going to hell for drinking a cup of coffee. Crazy.

 

[seoulsearch]

Yeah things do get ruff in CC forums but at lest the level of freedom of speech is higher here then most forums where suppression and towing the moderators line gives them the feeling of a concentration camp..

We don't need the mods or administration to make people feel like the forums are a concentration camp--we already have the crowds to do that. For example, in Singles--if you post about your struggles as a single, supposedly well-meaning people will tell you to get up off your lazy single butt and "Do something for the Lord!", and that ultimately, during your service, He will then surely answer your prayers for a spouse!!

So then when people try to explain that they HAVE been participating in various ministries, then you get the people who will say you're losing any heavenly reward you might gain from your service by talking about it openly, via Matthew 6:3.

It really IS a matter of people condemning you if you do, and then condemning you if you don't. It's always a Catch 22, no matter what you try to say, and no matter how hard you try to explain yourself.

We surely can't have any fun threads because people are offended that they are not mentioned in them, but when you try to mention them, they often get offended by what IS said (which I do understand--that's why I only try to mention people I have either known for a long time here or have a PM correspondence with.) So on one hand, people will say, "Why wasn't I mentioned in such-and-such thread? No on notices me, everyone forgets me, I may as well not even be here," but on the other hand, when people ARE mentioned, they're either hurt by someone's comments, or else they accuse everyone else of forming a big clique and purposely excluding them.

You just. can't. win.

When people write threads, they're often accused of making something up, not trying hard enough to clean up their situation before presenting it, or are flat-out told that they are being trolls (what about the posts that are actually legit?) And then there are also a steady stream of complaints about how there aren't any new threads, or that the forums have become boring. But then when users DO present new threads, they're usually shredded to pieces or killed off within the first 5 posts (often being told, "Someone has already posted about that, stop wasting our time"), as if that seems to be what some might look forward to most on the forum-- totally destroying a thread before it even has a chance to get off the ground.

I always try to encourage people to write threads of their own, but lately I've had second thoughts about even doing that, because unless a person writes threads on a regular basis, they probably don't know that you really have to have a spine of steel to write them, especially on a regular basis because you. are. going. to. get. blasted. from every angle (most often, by people who NEVER even write threads themselves!) I don't like the feeling of setting people up as targets.

Back in the day, I used to drop a lot of threads here, but now I have to stop myself and think about how hard I want to brace myself for the backlash. I've been working on a sequel to the "Knights in Shining Armor" thread in my head for over 3 weeks (I had an idea long before I even wrote the first thread), but it all becomes a matter of trying to anticipate what kinds of criticisms you're going to get in advance so that you might be able to avoid the major battles in the hope of a good discussion.

I keep thinking to myself, "Well, I could say... but then someone is going to say blah blah blah... and if I point out such-and-such... then someone is going to holler about this-and-that..." And so, the idea has been written out and lying dormant on my table for almost a month because to be honest, I'm at a dead-end in wrestling with myself over how to handle the inevitable criticisms.

And there are so many other things to be spending time on in life besides arguing with anonymous strangers on the internet.

Like anything else, CC has its own "generations." When I came to CC, Singles was a lot more interactive, and the chat rooms were just plain fun. We used to play Bible Trivia, have Bible Studies, and really interesting group discussions nearly every night, often led by a very talented group of moderators and active people on the site. I had always hoped it might go back to that, but I'm pretty sure it never will.

I know that people move on and that the "landscape" here changes at least every year or so, but I'm just not sure anymore what we can all do to try to make it a more positive experience. I used to think that if we all kept writing threads and talking to each other, it might bring people in closer community with each other, but unfortunately, I think it's actually having some of the opposite effect, as we seem to be drawing in more and more critical people (not just to Singles, but to the site in general.)

I am very grateful to CC for the friends I've met here and the opportunities I've had to practice communicating with people on this type of interface, but I have to admit that as positive as I've tried to be, I too have lost most of my hope for trying to make even Singles a more upbeat place to spend time in.

 

[PennEd]

In my town the bowling alley is a seedy dive where disreputable people hang out. So my church has a standard against bowling because of that. BOWLING IS SINFUL!

In a town near me the pool hall is a similar seedy dive, and their church has a standard against it for the same reason. THE POOL CUE POINTS STRAIGHT TO HELL!

Playing cards is associated with gambling, so some churches have a standard against playing cards. (Wait, is that still a standard? I know it used to be in some places, but I haven't heard of it lately.) Oh well, no matter... THERE'S AN EVIL JOKER IN YOUR DECK!

Because of the hippy movement and their habit of growing long facial hair as a sign of rebellion against authority, many churches used to have a standard against facial hair. The stigma and the standard against facial hair have faded away in most places, but... THE DEVIL WILL PULL YOU DOWN TO HELL BY YOUR BEARD!

Coffee is... (Oh forget it. That thread in the misc. forum has worn me out about coffee. Somebody else say something here about it. Maybe something about when your grandmother was young she went to a church where the pastor preached against coffee or something.)

This one town I heard of, the local church had a standard against dominoes. (This is a true story.) The problem was, people were skipping church on Sunday night to go to their friends' houses and play dominoes. Dominoes in this town was like golf in some towns - they took it real serious. So many people regularly skipped church that the church put a standard against dominoes. YOU ALSO WILL FALL LIKE YOUR DOMINOES AND TUMBLE INTO HELL!



This forum used to be fun. It used to be a cool place where christians could hang out and chat with other christians, and the occasional non-christians who followed the rules and didn't argue about christianity. It used to be an interesting place.

Lately the singles and misc. forums have turned into BDF-wannabes. No matter what you say here, somebody will disagree with you, insult you because you are so stupid as to believe such an idiotic thing and call you not a REAL christian. It has reached the point where I worry every time I make a post in any thread, on any forum, because I know somebody is lurking, waiting to pounce on anything they can twist into an argument.

THIS FORUM IS NO LONGER FUN OR EDIFYING!

Many of the cool people have drifted off, because this forum is no longer fun or edifying. Some of the remaining cool people don't post nearly as much as they could because they are always dreading the expected arguments that ensue. I have considered leaving myself, because it's just not worth it anymore.

Argumentative people: Please chill out. Go back to BDF and argue with like-minded self righteous people. You are killing the only cool forums left in this place.

Wait... that's what you WANT, isn't it...

Not to be "argumentative" and I'm certainly not going to call you a name or say your theology is wrong, but didn't you just make several posts that basically called for the "Not by works thread" to be shuttered?

Seems to me, you'd WANT thread to continue in the BDF so the people would stay there.

 

[seoulsearch]

I see the same thing. What's a real Christian anyway? Hard to tell sometimes from what I read. Now, you're going to hell for drinking a cup of coffee. Crazy.

Yes. Not only going to hell... but you're going to become a heroin addict as well.

That thread was a great example of how you never know exactly what the argument was going to be. At first, I thought people were going to balk because the thread was written in 2009, and usually that's the first thing that gets picked apart and hollered about.

But no... instead, we were all told that coffee is surely a gateway drug to heroin, because what heroin user HASN'T had a cup of coffee ("the devil's bean juice", if I remember correctly)???

Every little thing becomes a religion in its own right (even coffee), and if you don't believe the same or do the exact same as someone else, woe and damnation to you, you hellbound sinner.

 

[JosephsDreams]

I know that some of this by the OP was aimed at me. I realize that some here are not happy with me saying certain foods are NG.

I usually don't chime in when so and so thread say they like cupcakes, etc. It's when they say cupcakes are good for you that you may hear from me. I know food can be comforting and be associated with fond memories. I have many warm recollections of when I was younger of food I no longer eat.

I am a nutritionist IRL.
I went to school for this. I eat the way I suggest my clients should eat. I eat fairly close to the diet God originally gave us. I have fasted for long periods of time more then a handful of times. I have helped scores of people, some with very serious diseases get well.
I have spoken in front of Christian audiences about this issue.

My point is not to put star stickers by name regarding nutritional knowledge. I am saying this because it is a ministry for me, if some of you have not already guessed.

Talk about how you love whatever food you want. Go for it. I many even join in and say how at one time in my life I liked that food to.
Yet when someone tries to push coffee as being good for ya, well, I am probably going to refute that statement. I know the biological science behind this stuff. I have personally experienced most of what I am speaking of. Most of you just don't have that background; if you did, you would not be making some of the statements you make about certain foods.

You go on Dr. Google, the cliff notes of the universe, and think you can state with authority about some of this. Sometimes you can; usually you can not. There are a lot of variables and other factors that go into some of the stuff that is on the internet about food. If it was as straight up as some of you may think, I would not have a living.

Worse to me, is that a lot of it is there in the bible if you know how to look for it. As Christians, even with no nutritional scientific background you should grasp most of the basic concepts. Yet most of you do not.

I don't go on the BDF because of all the strife. On the other forums I rarely get into anything with anyone apart when someone makes some ill advised statement about food and diet.

 

[seoulsearch]

Joseph,

I just wanted to clarify (and I can only speak for myself) that my post in this thread was not in regards to your posts at all, but rather the one that said coffee is a gateway drug to heroin, because in all honesty, that post had me completely dumbfounded.

I appreciate the information you and several others post about nutrition because I find it to be a fascinating subject. There was a recent post I read about cobalt that I found to be immensely interesting.

The only time I start to become troubled by such posts are when there are implications (and again, I'm not saying that you do this personally) that other people who do not follow the same exact recommendations as a poster follows must not be a real Christian or are somehow lesser Christians because of it.

Who on earth can follow every recommendation perfectly anyway? My personal outlook is that I try my best and that's all I can do for me--if someone else asks me what I do, I just state what works for me but I certainly don't look down on them if they choose something else. It might not even work for them or their lifestyle. For instance, I am borderline fanatical about sun protection. My current dermatologist was shocked at my initial appointment because the color of my arm is the same all the way around and shows no sign of even a "farmer's tan". He said he couldn't ever see me being at a risk for skin cancer if I kept it up (but that's certainly not an absolute, and I keep getting checked anyway.)

But I know this is also because of circumstances in my life that most other people couldn't uphold, nor would I ever expect them to try. I also know that there are people out there who are even more diligent than I am, so I could never see myself as following "all the rules" in this area perfectly either.

I also take all medical advice with a huge block of salt. I was thinking about your posts on my way to a doctor's appointment today. I have had nearly every type of doctor--dermatologist, dentist, medical, and optical--discover something about me that is often very different from others ("That's only been seen in 1% of the population!") Yes, I know, I know. It's kind of become a hallmark of my life.

I just tend to zig where everyone else zags. I have a good friend whom I love dearly but we just about have to eat the exact opposite things of one another, because the diets that work for each of us would make the other one very sick. Likewise, we have a family friend who is in the triple digits regarding age, takes absolutely no medications, is in better health than many people a third of their age, and has pretty much disregarded a good portion of "professional" medical advice all their life (example--this person was a career farmer and considers organic food a waste.) I'm not saying I agree, I'm just saying that this person found a different beat to march to, and it obviously worked for them (along with the grace of God, of course.)

I very much enjoy in-depth posts about health and nutrition, and often stop to read them when I have the time.

It's just that... and I could be wrong about this, but I just feel that people struggling to live healthier lives should be encouraged to make the best choices they can (even if they're different from others), and not badgered into thinking they are lesser Christians, or worse, not even Christians at all.

 

[BillG]

I see the same thing. What's a real Christian anyway? Hard to tell sometimes from what I read. Now, you're going to hell for drinking a cup of coffee. Crazy.

It's not the drinking of the coffee. It's the shot gun you have in your hand whilst robbing a bank whilst drinking the coffee.

 

[zeroturbulence]

[video=youtube;ERWREcPIoPA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERWREcPIoPA[/video]

 

[BillG]

In my town the bowling alley is a seedy dive where disreputable people hang out. So my church has a standard against bowling because of that. BOWLING IS SINFUL!

In a town near me the pool hall is a similar seedy dive, and their church has a standard against it for the same reason. THE POOL CUE POINTS STRAIGHT TO HELL!

Playing cards is associated with gambling, so some churches have a standard against playing cards. (Wait, is that still a standard? I know it used to be in some places, but I haven't heard of it lately.) Oh well, no matter... THERE'S AN EVIL JOKER IN YOUR DECK!

Because of the hippy movement and their habit of growing long facial hair as a sign of rebellion against authority, many churches used to have a standard against facial hair. The stigma and the standard against facial hair have faded away in most places, but... THE DEVIL WILL PULL YOU DOWN TO HELL BY YOUR BEARD!

Very sad indeed.
I suppose such impositions will draw non believers into a holier than thou church NOT.

I must be going to hell as I put together a Christan pool team and played in a Christan football team.

Such people who say such things would do well to remember that when pointing the finger there are three pointing back at them.

 

[mj007]

The more quiet meek voice of well meaning people is drowned out by arrogant self-righteous people who are somehow immune to being banned, even though they infect the whole place. Just because someone has high status, high rep, whatever, means nothing to God. Threads seem to get owned by the same group of people who 'own' that thread by being the majority of loud outspoken people. Being loud and outspoken in numbers, or in a brood, also means nothing to God.

I also see people just joining, and you know if you have empathy, you could think maybe they have been thinking about joining for a while, so that they can 'let out' their problem. But you get people responding, there's another forum for that, or some kind of apathetic response. I feel sorry for those people. And there is also the quick assumption 'hey everyone its a troll'. How do you know that? You can't make such assumptions.

Again it is the same group of people.

But it just makes this a place where God's face cannot truly express.

 

[Lynx]

Not to be "argumentative" and I'm certainly not going to call you a name or say your theology is wrong, but didn't you just make several posts that basically called for the "Not by works thread" to be shuttered?

Seems to me, you'd WANT thread to continue in the BDF so the people would stay there.

Hmm, a cogent point...

Yay for the Not By Works thread. May it live forever!


Kim: Come on, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

 

[Dino246]

There was chocolate, and the people rejoiced...


for a while...


and then began arguing over the cocoa content, and which additions (dairy, nuts, fruit, etc.) were appropriate. (facepalm)

 

[Tommy379]

Milk Chocolate and peanut butter.

 

[Lynx]

JosephsDreams: It wasn't about you at all. I disagreed with you in that thread (and still do) but you didn't try to make coffee a matter of personal holiness. Your claims about health matters weren't even all that ludicrous, compared to the claims of some of the people there. But even if you had been the one to claim caffeine is a gateway drug to heroin (insert eye rolling here) at least you didn't try to make coffee drinkers sound like they were bound for hell over it.

It's the "You're a SINNER if you do (random thing that is only a standard in my church because of very specific regional conditions)" that I object to.