State of the Dead. what happens when you die. ???

[preacher4truth]

That may be one one of the reasons why, though there is no rule anywhere saying a parable cannot have named people in it. That is not to say that those who refuse to accept the story of the rich man and Lazarus as a parable do not act as if there is a rule written about it. I think they wrote the rule in their own imaginations.

You've written your own rule, majority Christian acceptance and scholarship show your rule to be erroneous. Just wondering, your teachings remind me of Christadelphian doctrine for some reason. Wondering if you are yourself?

 

[TMS]

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.




1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[posthuman]

I cannot make out the point you are trying to make.

Man became a living soul when God breathed into him the breath of life. Yes?

yes, so life is not of the body of flesh He formed, but of the breath - the spirit. some of this thread is composed in terms of "death" where it is meant the spirit is separated from the body, but God defines life, eternal life as knowledge of Him. this is beyond the scope of "death" and "life" as defined only by the spirit ((vis a vis breath)) being present in the body, because we have been "dead" in sin while the flesh lives, and "to God all live" - because to live is Christ, the One who reveals the Father to us, of whom knowledge is life. life, as God defines it.

"dead flesh" isn't necessarily "dead person" any more than "living body" isn't necessarily "living person" -- if the flesh is dead when it is separated from the spirit that gives it breath, then how much more dead is a soul, if it is separated from the Spirit of God, who gives life as God defines it: knowledge of Christ, sent by God?

what happens when we "die" is what happens when we do not know God. but i'm not talking about physical death.

 

[TMS]

Immortality of the soul is a pagan teaching that was baptized into catholic theology and the reformers came away from these false teachings but the churches today have mostly all gone back to the pagan theology.
Only God has immortality and if the Spirit continues to live than you don't die you continue to live as a spirit.
So what is death?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Immortality of the soul is a pagan teaching that was baptized into catholic theology and the reformers came away from these false teachings but the churches today have mostly all gone back to the pagan theology.
Only God has immortality and if the Spirit continues to live than you don't die you continue to live as a spirit.
So what is death?

Hello TMS,

According to all related scripture, both life and death are states of conscious existence.

Eternal Life = Unending conscious existence in the kingdom of God

Eternal Death = Unending conscious existence in separation from God in the Lake of fire.

God's immortality is that He is in himself is immortal having no beginning and no ending. The spirit/soul of human beings are immortal, but our bodies die and decay but the spirit lives on. At the time of death, the spirit of the believer departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, conscious and aware. When the wicked die, their spirits depart and go into Sheol/Hades where they are in torment in flame conscious and aware.

At the resurrection, the spirits of those who died in Christ will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. After the millennial period, the spirits of the unsaved who died will come out of Sheol/Hades and will also receive resurrected bodies only to stand before God at the great white throne to be judged. They will spend eternity in the lake of fire in those resurrected bodies.

 

[Waggles]

Matthew 10:28
(KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

(YLT) `And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

(ABP+) And[SUP]G2532[/SUP] fear not[SUP]G3361 G5399[/SUP] of[SUP]G575[/SUP] the ones[SUP]G3588[/SUP] killing[SUP]G615[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] body,[SUP]G4983[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] but[SUP]G1161[/SUP] soul[SUP]G5590[/SUP] not[SUP]G3361[/SUP] being able[SUP]G1410[/SUP] to kill![SUP]G615[/SUP] But you fear[SUP]G5399[/SUP] [SUP]G1161[/SUP] rather[SUP]G3123[/SUP] the one[SUP]G3588[/SUP] being able[SUP]G1410[/SUP] both[SUP]G2532[/SUP] the soul[SUP]G5590[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] body[SUP]G4983[/SUP] to destroy[SUP]G622[/SUP] in[SUP]G1722[/SUP] Gehenna![SUP]G1067

[/SUP]Gehenna > G1067 γέεννα geenna gheh'-en-nah Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]);
valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

Revelation 20:14
(KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(YLT) and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
(RV) And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death,
even the lake of fire.

Hades > G86 ᾅδης hadēs From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492;
properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

They are carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom.

 

[prove-all]

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Not remembered? Even if they are still burning?
The words of Christ are always a good place to start...

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill
the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Lazzarus and the Rich man

First of all, IT IS A PARABLE. To whom was Christ speaking?

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth
your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

So Christ was speaking to the Pharisees. OK, how did He speak to them...
Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables;
and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house:
and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of
the tares of the field.

Christ only spoke plainly to the disciples.
Lazarus and the Rich Man is a PARABLE.
-

Do people burn forever in a Hell-fire? DO SAVED mothers up in heaven see
the writhing and hear the shrieks of their own lost children down in hell?

STOP AND THINK! Would you really want to spend eternity in a heaven where
you would be forced to gaze constantly upon your own loved ones who were lost,
hearing them frantically screaming to you for help you would be unable to give,
gazing constantly upon their indescribable agony, as they, on fire, are burning-
-burning to death-- yet never really burning up?
-

Did Jesus say the beggar went to heaven? He said the beggar "was carried by
the angels into Abraham's bosom." Now what is a "bosom"?

Look in your dictionary. A "bosom" is the breast of a human being, with the arms
as an enclosure; a loving embrace by the arms of one person about another;
an intimate relationship.

So Lazarus was carried into an intimate relationship with Abraham.
Lazarus here is pictured as a Gentile, who received salvation. Do Gentiles, upon being
converted and becoming Christ's, enter into any intimate relationship to Abraham?

To the Gentile-born Galatians, the Scriptures written by Paul say definitely: "And if ye
be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed (children), and heirs according to the promise."
(Gal. 3:29.)

Thru Christ they become the children of Abraham. Thru faith we all become "the children
of Abraham." (Gal. 3:7.) That is an intimate relationship with Abraham. That is being
taken into Abraham's bosom!

Now Abraham is an HEIR of God. God gave Abraham a PROMISE. Notice (Gal. 3:29),
those who thru Christ become Abraham's children are heirs-- but heirs according to
the promise God made to Abraham! The PROMISE Was Not Heaven!

And the Eternal appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed I give THIS LAND."
God included this beggar when He said, "Unto thy seed will I give THIS LAND ."

"For all the LAND which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed FOREVER."
"In the same day the Eternal made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have
I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates."


The PROMISE was not heaven. The promise was the LAND of Palestine, on this earth.
It was for ever, so the promise included eternal life, and eternal inheritance. (Heb. 9:15.)

The PROMISE then, was ETERNAL LIFE ON THIS EARTH! Now Only an Heir!
The next question is, when was this beggar to inherit, to come into possession of ETERNAL
LIFE in THE PROMISED LAND? Jesus did not cover that point in the story.

-
The son, who is heir to his fathers property cannot come into possession of it before his
father inherits it. This beggar, carried into the intimate relationship of a son of Abraham,
could not inherit either eternal LIFE, or this LAND, prior to the time his father Abraham
receives these promises.

Abraham he has not, even yet in our day, inherited these promises!

The God of glory appeared unto our Father Abraham . . . and said unto him, Get thee out
of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into THE LAND which I will show thee...
..And He gave him none inheritance in it . . . yet He promised that he would give it to him
for a possession, and to his seed after him." (Acts 7:1-5.)

the FAITH chapter Hebrews 11: "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into
a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; . . By faith he sojourned
in the LAND of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and
Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: . . .

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off,
and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers
and pilgrims on the earth." (Heb. 11:8-13.)

Abraham died, but has not to this day inherited the promises!
-

Abraham died, and was still DEAD, not living on earth or in heaven or anywhere,
but was still DEAD, at the time of Christ's earthly ministry. We read in John 8:52,
"Abraham is dead". At that time-- centuries after he died, Abraham WAS DEAD!

He is still dead today. When, then, is he to inherit the promises?

At the time of the RESURRECTION of the just, of course! The Kingdom of God is the
government to be set up IN PALESTINE to rule all nations after the Second Coming
of Christ.(I Thes. 4:16.) (I Cor. 15:50-53.) (Mat. 25:31-34.)


Jesus said Abraham would receive the promises, including eternal life, thru the RES:
"But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto
you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Mat. 22:31-32.)

Jesus did not say Abraham was then living. Yet the things God has promised are so certain
they may be counted as if already accomplished. Abraham, as shown above by Scripture,
was and still is DEAD, But Jesus spoke this about Abraham "as touching the RESURREC-
TION of the dead." Abraham will be RESURRECTED.

Jesus told the Pharisees they would see Abraham in the Kingdom (Luke 13:28), because
Abraham, now DEAD, will then be RESURRECTED from the dead!

Jesus said this beggar died. So, like Abraham, he is STILL DEAD !

But Jesus said that, after he died, "he was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom."
When do the angels come down from heaven? In Matthew 25:31, we see that it was at the
Second Coming of Christ-- at the time of the RESURRECTION!

Lazarus is to be resurrected, and carried by the angels thru the air to meet Christ, at
His return, and to be with Abraham, in the intimate relationship of father and son!

So how does the Bible uses the word "bosom." Turn to Isaiah 40:11. Here God will care
for His people as a shepherd does for his sheep, which He will carry "in His bosom."
Jesus was "in the bosom" of the Father (John 1:18), enjoying the Father's blessings and
close relationship. Moses carried the children of Israel in his bosom. To be in one's bosom
is to have that one's love and protection, and share his blessings and inheritance.
-
The Fate of the Rich Man


Jesus said of him: " . . . the rich man also died, and was buried." (Luke 16:22.)
And "hades" means THE GRAVE--a place of BURIAL in the ground!

In the next verse, Jesus said, "And in hell he lifted up his eyes." (v. 23.)
And in this hell he "lifted up his eyes." His eyes had been closed, in death,
and now there came a time when they opened--he "lifted up his eyes!"

Jesus, too, died and was buried. And in "hell" He, too, lifted up His eyes--
WHEN HE WAS RESURRECTED!

Daniel speaks of the resurrection of the just, and of the unjust: "And many of them
that sleep (their eyes closed) in the dust of the earth (their graves-- buried--in "hades"),
shall awake (lift up their eyes) some to everlasting life, and some to shame and
everlasting contempt." (Dan. 12:2.)
-

Jesus said: " . . . the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves (the original Greek
word Jesus used is "hades") shall hear His voice, and shall come forth: they that have done
good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil (including the rich man),
unto the RESURRECTION of judgment." (John 5:28-29.)

-
In Rev. 20:4 we read of the resurrection of those in Christ at His coming. But Rev. 20:5
says: "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."
So the resurrection of the rich man and all the unjust or unsaved will take place after the
millennium! It is pictured and described in Rev. 20:11-12.
-
So, while Jesus in speaking about the rich man and Lazarus did not say when the rich man
will open his eyes and be resurrected out of his grave, other Scriptures do reveal that it will
be after the millennium!

He is resurrected MORTAL, just as he was before he died--not immortal like Lazarus!

Now, opening his eyes in his grave, this rich man SEES Abraham, and Lazarus in his "bosom"
-- his embrace! Yes, Jesus told the Pharisees that they would SEE Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
in the Kingdom and they themselves thrust out! This rich man sees them! He also sees this
awful flame of fire -- this LAKE OF FIRE which is about to destroy him forever! He is terrified!

Scripture everywhere describes the final fate of the wicked as being burned up by fire.
It is this "lake of fire," which is "the second death," from which there shall be no resurrection!
The PUNISHMENT is death by fire! They remain forever DEAD!

He said to these same Pharisees: "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity. There shall be
weeping and gnashing of teeth, They are to be THRUST OUT--into the LAKE OF FIRE
which shall consume them, leaving them neither root nor branch, as the Scriptures say!

This rich man cried out for help because of his mental and physical anguish--
KNOWING what was now to befall him!
-
The gulf mentioned by Abraham which prevents the wicked from escaping death by hell-fire,
and which also keeps the righteous from being burned, is immortality. Those who are immortal
shall never die because they are born of God. (Rev. 20:6). But human beings who have not been
begotten and born by the Spirit of God are still flesh, subject to corruption and death.


They can be burned by fire.

Only the saved possess immortality as the gift of God (Rom. 2:7), but the wicked reap anguish
and wrath that shall devour the adversary--fiery indignation (Heb. 10:27). What happens when
a human body is being burned by a flame?

There is a period of torture during which the fire consumes the body before the person dies.
Jesus didn't say he was immortal, for if he were he would be spirit and flames do not burn spirit.

Fire is a physical process. It is combustion of matter.

Matthew 13:30 speaks of the wicked being gathered into bundles to be burned. What happens to
tares (weeds) when in fire? They burn up! Again in Matthew 3:12, John warned the Pharisees that
they would be burned up as chaff if they didn't repent. They are to be burned with unquenchable
fire, too. A fire so hot that no amount of water put on it could put it out, because the flames would
turn the water to steam.

When God punishes the wicked the fire will be unquenchable! But that doesn't say it won't burn
itself out when it has nothing more to burn. An unquenchable fire can't be put out, but it can burn
itself out when it has consumed everything.

Malachi 4:1,3 speaks of this fire that will burn the rich man: "For, behold, the day cometh, that
shall burn as an oven; and all t he proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the
day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root
nor branch. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be [ashes] under the soles of your
feet in the day that I shall do this."

That is the end of the wicked! They shall perish and not be any more.
"Into smoke shall they consume away." (Psalm 37:20).

The rich man then, being mortal flesh, is going to burn up after being tormented
in the flame. He is going to die the second death . (Rev. 20:14).
The wages of sin is death, not endless torment. (Rom. 6:23).

This death is for ALL ETERNITY-- ETERNAL PUNISHMENT--but is not eternal punishing!
-

The rich man at last realized he was DOOMED! He now comprehended the gulf that existed
between him and those who had been made immortal. Abraham had made clear the utter
impossibility of the rich man crossing that gulf into immortality.

He gave one last cry to Abraham, begging him to send Lazarus to his father s house to plead
with his brothers, lest they come to his terrible fate. Abraham replied they had the writings of
Moses and the prophets. But the rich man realized they would not hear these Scriptures.

"Nay, Father Abraham," he screamed, "but if one went unto them from the dead they will repent!"

The rich man knew Lazarus was RAISED FROM THE DEAD! This one statement proves that
the whole experience of Lazarus and the rich man was given by Jesus to SHOW THE TRUTH
OF THE RESURRECTION--not to teach any immediate going to "heaven" or "hell" at the
instant of death.

Abraham replied, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded,
though one ROSE from the dead." (verse 31).

In plain language! The experience of Lazarus and the rich man shows the RESURRECTION
from the dead--not an instantaneous going to "heaven" or "hell." It is a resurrection from
THE DEAD--not from life. It shows MORTALITY which dies, and is DEAD not immortality
which never loses consciousness and lives forever in an eternal punishing of the imaginary "hell."

Jesus was preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God--the NEW Testament Gospel.
He was showing salvation, the resurrection to eternal LIFE as the gift of God--
inheritance of the Kingdom of God on this earth.

 

[prove-all]

Origins of Heaven and Hell


The modern conceptions of both heaven and hell have their origins in ancient Egyptian culture. The Egyptians believed that they would stand before, and be judged by, the god Osiris upon their death:

“When the verdict is favorable and he has been cleared of any impurity, his heart is restored, and after several other ordeals, he is ushered into the bright Elysian Fields (the fields of Alu) beyond the water.… Henceforth, he enjoys the perennial life of the blessed under the shadow of the tree of life, or the sycamore of Nut, the goddess of the sky, a true Osiris” (Kaufmann Kohler, Heaven and Hell in Comparative Religion, pp. 22-23).

When the verdict was negative, the sinner experienced the “second death.” He was then dismembered and subjected to the fiercest tortures, including burning by hot coals, plunging into deep waters, or cutting the body into pieces by sharp swords. “We have here the very origin of [Dante’s poems] the Inferno and Paradiso” (ibid., p. 23).

These pagan beliefs became a part of modern theology through the literature of Dante Alighieri (1265-1321), best known for the Divine Comedy in three parts: Inferno, Purgatorio and Paradiso. Dante’s personal ideas about hell came largely from the writings of the Greek philosophers Plato and Virgil. His Inferno included a tour through the various levels of hell, where sinners suffered by an eternally punishing fire. This story is the basis for beliefs on hell among millions of professing Christians.

 

[prove-all]

There will be a lake of fire, that is a fact, but hell is not the lake of fire.

The lake of fire does not yet exist...it will at Judgment day,
but that is only after the millennial period.

 

[prove-all]

That's the impression we get by focusing entirely on the Old Testament.

John 3:13 reveals that no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.

Heaven is not, as some believe, the future home of any man, righteous or not.
Revelation 5:10 shows that God’s saints will reign not in heaven but “on the earth.”

 

[prove-all]

The Church is described in Ephesians 2:20 as being “built upon the foundation of the apostles and
prophets [including Old Testament prophets], Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.”

“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11)

 

[prove-all]

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee,
To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

paradise. G3857 παράδεισος paradeisos Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]);
a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”):
- paradise.

H6508 פּרדּס pardês Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.

Jesus is saying to the thief that he will be with him in the earth, in the grave.

(an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”)

I do not think paradise and grave here means the same thing.
I thought it only ment that "that day" was that day Jesus spoke to him only, and

He recieved the down payment of "the Holy Spirit " on that day,-all who are Christs recieve,
and this Paradise is a future event, The Garden of Eden will be here on earth.

-
I think there was an old saying ,
people would put there "potatoes in hell for the winter"

 

[prove-all]

There were some that rose at the resurrection of Jesus and other than Moses
(an exception like Elijah) i would like you to show me who was in heaven?

Elijah in Heaven now ? Heaven Defined

“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them”
This word heavens refers to two different heavens. (Gen. 2:1)

The first heaven consists of the Earth’s atmosphere. The second heaven is
the vast reaches of space beyond the atmosphere.

There is also a third heaven: the home of God. The Apostle Paul saw this “third heaven,”
where God’s throne is, in a vision (ii Cor. 12:1-2). This vision was so intensely realistic
that Paul was unable to tell if he was physically there, or if he was seeing it in his mind.

In Heb. 4:14, the phrase “into the heavens,” should be translated “through the heavens.”
We see that Jesus Christ passed through the first two heavens—Earth’s atmosphere and
outer space—as He ascended to the third heaven.

John 3:13 reveals that no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.
Certainly many have ascended to the first and second heavens by aircraft, spacecraft and
other means,this verse can only refer to the third heaven, where the Almighty God resides.

Some have said that Elijah ascended to heaven, which he did—but not to the third
heaven. He was taken by chariots of fire up into the first heaven (ii Kings 2:11).
The Hebrew word used for heaven here is the same as in Genesis 2:1.

Elijah did not die during this experience. In fact, Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram
years after this event (ii Chron. 21:12). Elijah had been miraculously transported to
another location on Earth.


-
Moses "But no man knoweth his sepulchre unto this day."

 

[Deade]

Matthew 10:28
(KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

(YLT) `And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

(ABP+) And[SUP]G2532[/SUP] fear not[SUP]G3361 G5399[/SUP] of[SUP]G575[/SUP] the ones[SUP]G3588[/SUP] killing[SUP]G615[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] body,[SUP]G4983[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] but[SUP]G1161[/SUP] soul[SUP]G5590[/SUP] not[SUP]G3361[/SUP] being able[SUP]G1410[/SUP] to kill![SUP]G615[/SUP] But you fear[SUP]G5399[/SUP] [SUP]G1161[/SUP] rather[SUP]G3123[/SUP] the one[SUP]G3588[/SUP] being able[SUP]G1410[/SUP] both[SUP]G2532[/SUP] the soul[SUP]G5590[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] body[SUP]G4983[/SUP] to destroy[SUP]G622[/SUP] in[SUP]G1722[/SUP] Gehenna![SUP]G1067

[/SUP]Gehenna > G1067 γέεννα geenna gheh'-en-nah Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]);
valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

Revelation 20:14
(KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(YLT) and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
(RV) And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death,
even the lake of fire.

Hades > G86 ᾅδης hadēs From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492;
properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.

Hello Waggles,

I noticed you use Strong's reference numbers a lot. Do you have an online accessible version to recommend? My having to use my hard copy with the fine print is really inconvenient.

Yours,

Deade

 

[prove-all]

Hello Waggles,

I noticed you use Strong's reference numbers a lot. Do you have an online accessible version to recommend? My having to use my hard copy with the fine print is really inconvenient.

Yours,

Deade

e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC

 

[Nehemiah6]

John 3:13 reveals that no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.

That verse is often taken out of context, but it does not mean that Enoch and Elijah were NOT taken up to Heaven, since the Bible makes it crystal clear that they were taken up. What it means it that only Christ has -- of His own Divine power -- ascended up to Heaven. Jesus said "destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" as alluding to His own resurrection. It is true that both the Father and the Holy Spirit were also involved, but that is the meaning in context.

Heaven is not, as some believe, the future home of any man, righteous or not.

Technically it is the New Jerusalem, and not only is it the future home of all the saints, but it is THE CURRENT HOME of all the saints . See Hebrews 12:22-24.

Revelation 5:10 shows that God’s saints will reign not in heaven but “on the earth.”

Since the saints after their glorification will not have any physical restrictions, they could reign on earth and still have their eternal home in Heaven. That is hardly a reason to claim that they will live on earth. Let's go by what Scripture says regading the eternal home of the saints. So start with John 14:1-3 and then go to 1 John 3:1-3.

 

[prove-all]

That verse is often taken out of context, but it does not mean that Enoch and Elijah
were NOT taken up to Heaven, since the Bible makes it crystal clear that they were taken up.

So how did Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram years after that event ?
And Enoch: All his days were three hundred and sixty-five! not a day more?

We know Enoch Walked With God (Gen. 5:22)

At the age of 65 Enoch had a son named Methuselah.
"And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah
three hundred years, and he begat sons and daughters"
.
Hebrews 11:6 the apostle said, "But without faith it is impossible
to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

So He obeyed God, and followed Him in His paths by faith.
Amos the prophet said: "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

The scripture says that he "walked with God after he begat Methuselah
three hundred years." So Enoch followed God's ways for three hundred years.
Moses did not record that Enoch [is still] walking with God.

"all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" If Enoch did
not die - if he were changed to immortality - and thus continued to walk with God,
then his days would have been more than three hundred and sixty-five years.

Enoch's Translation

Moses wrote that "Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God
took him" (Gen. 5:24). Paul records the same event by saying that he
"was not found, because God had translated him" (Heb. 11:5).

That Enoch was not found because God took him, or "translated" him.
The Bible does not say that Enoch went to heaven when he was translated.
Instead it says he was not found. Certainly Enoch was "translated,"

The original Greek word for "translate" is metatithemi.
According to Arndt-Gingrich's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament,
1969 edition, the primary meaning is to "convey to another place ... transfer"

Jacob died his body was "carried over"

This same Greek word is rendered "carried over" in Acts 7:16.
Here we read that after Jacob died his body was "carried over"
- transported, translated - to Sychem where he was buried!

Jacob was transported or translated to the place of burial!
That is why Moses said that God took Enoch. God removed - translated
- him so that he was not found. God took Enoch and buried him!

In Deuteronomy 34:6 we read also how God took Moses from the people
after which he died and was buried by God. "But no man knoweth his
sepulchre unto this day." God removed Moses - God translated him - and
he was not found either!

He was taken away and was not found. All his days were three hundred
and sixty-five! That's as long as Enoch lived.
-

Colossians 1:13: the Father "hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath [translated us] into the kingdom of his dear Son." Here the Bible
says that Christians are already translated - but Christians still die!


Enoch is included by Paul (in Hebrews 11) among the fathers who obtained
a good report through faith; but"these all, having obtained a good report
through faith, received not the promise" (Heb. 11:39). What promise?

The "hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie,
promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2).

Enoch and all the worthies of old will receive the promise of eternal life
at the return of Christ, the same time Christians obtain it (Heb. 11:40)
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises."

Paul tells us: Abel, Enoch, Noah, and the patriarchs and their wives. Heb 11:1-12
lists those who had faith and Enoch is included among them. Then in verse 13 Paul
proved that they had not inherited the promises by saying:

"These all [including Enoch] died in faith." But what about Paul's saying
that Enoch "should not see death"?

There is more than one death mentioned in the Bible.
There is a first death, and there is a second death (Rev. 20:6).

The first death is appointed unto men (Heb. 9:27). That death cannot
be humanly evaded. It is inevitable, and that death Enoch died.

But Paul was not writing about that death. The phrase "should not see"
is in the conditional tense of the verb, having reference to a future event.

It is not in the past tense, that he "did not see" death - but that he
"should not see death." So this death that Enoch escaped by being
translated is one that he can escape in the future on certain conditions!


In John 8:51 Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my
saying, he shall never see death" - shall never see - that is, suffer - the
second death! And again in John 11:26, "Whosoever liveth and believeth
in me shall never die" - or "shall not die forever."
-

And Enoch will be in the first resurrection because he met the conditions!
The second death shall never touch Enoch,because of his faith and obedience.

Enoch had faith. He believed God and walked with God, obeying Him.
Jesus did not speak of Himself, but spoke what the Father commanded Him.

God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony,
that he pleased God."

Not only was Enoch figuratively taken from the society of his day,
but he was also literally removed -translated - so that he was not found.

God took him physically away from the people, just as He later took Moses.
And God buried each so well that neither has ever been found since!

 

[Studyman]

Reverlion states that the 1st and 2nd reserrection are seperated by 1000 years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

All will hear His voice and rise from the grave some in the 1st and the rest in the 2nd resurrection.

The resurrection of life; and the resurrection of damnation are seperated by 1000 years, and being part of the 2nd means damnation and the second death.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is confirmed in the story about Lazarus.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

So this is the Great Throne Judgment. He wakes up and sees Abraham who was raised in the first resurrection but doesn't realize that a thousand years have taken place between Abraham's resurrection and his.


26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Abraham and Lazarus had been raised and reigning with Jesus a 1000 years before this rich man opened his eyes. This great gulf is in part is that thousand years. Along with immortality that Abraham had and the rich man didn't have. I especially like the last sentence of this Parable.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Good topic, nice post TWS

 

[prove-all]

What it means it that only Christ has -- of His own Divine power -- ascended up to Heaven.

No the verse says "no man"

"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart
that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."


let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of
Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead,
by Him this man stands here before you whole