The King James Bible
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"Ancient and Grave Divines"
"Ancient" ,of course, means elderly.
"Grave" means very serious and not tolerant of frivolous interpretations.
"Divines" means they were holy men of God.
These are men who spent their lifetimes studying all scriptural writings.
This was #15 of the general rules for the guidance of the translators of the King James. All their work was scrupulously checked and verified by the most learned men of the day. These were the "Ancient and Grave Divines".
"Ancient and Grave Divines" was the 17th century language used to honor them.
If these three words baffle you, it's small wonder you have so much disdain for the King James.
The King James is about parables which require a little thought. You're rewarded if you seek to understand. But the NIV claims to have done that for you.
Here's another example of their work.
Jesus parable of the laborers hired by the householder to work in his vineyard. In the parable, the householder is Jesus Christ and his household that he's gathering laborers to is the kingdom of heaven. He's been gathering into his kingdom since his resurrection and he'll continue until the end which is written in Matt. 20:6 as the eleventh hour. The eleventh hour is just before destruction, but it's written as 5:00 in the afternoon in the NIV. Maybe you can't see the difference but it's huge. The NIV is a parody of the King James but I can't laugh. Try to defend it all you want. The errs are glaring and all through it. You can have it and sadly keep it but don't try to convince the King James group of its accuracy. That's a joke.
"Ancient" ,of course, means elderly.
"Grave" means very serious and not tolerant of frivolous interpretations.
"Divines" means they were holy men of God.
These are men who spent their lifetimes studying all scriptural writings.
This was #15 of the general rules for the guidance of the translators of the King James. All their work was scrupulously checked and verified by the most learned men of the day. These were the "Ancient and Grave Divines".
"Ancient and Grave Divines" was the 17th century language used to honor them.
If these three words baffle you, it's small wonder you have so much disdain for the King James.
The King James is about parables which require a little thought. You're rewarded if you seek to understand. But the NIV claims to have done that for you.
Here's another example of their work.
Jesus parable of the laborers hired by the householder to work in his vineyard. In the parable, the householder is Jesus Christ and his household that he's gathering laborers to is the kingdom of heaven. He's been gathering into his kingdom since his resurrection and he'll continue until the end which is written in Matt. 20:6 as the eleventh hour. The eleventh hour is just before destruction, but it's written as 5:00 in the afternoon in the NIV. Maybe you can't see the difference but it's huge. The NIV is a parody of the King James but I can't laugh. Try to defend it all you want. The errs are glaring and all through it. You can have it and sadly keep it but don't try to convince the King James group of its accuracy. That's a joke.
There is nothing in this parable that suggests that the eleventh hour is "just before destruction"; that's an anachronism on your part. 5:00 in the afternoon is the current way of saying the time that in Jesus' day was called "the eleventh hour". The point of the parable is that Jesus' offer of salvation and eternal life is the same whether you come to Him early or late. Perhaps if you understood the context better, you wouldn't engage in such eisegesis.
As to your critical comments of the NIV, that is exactly the attitude that draws the disdain of people who aren't KJV-only. KJV-ers rail loudly about "haters who mock and denigrate the KJV" but they do exactly the same thing regarding other translations. Nobody here is exalting the NIV, but you choose to knock it. That's no joke; it's just fallacious.
As to your critical comments of the NIV, that is exactly the attitude that draws the disdain of people who aren't KJV-only. KJV-ers rail loudly about "haters who mock and denigrate the KJV" but they do exactly the same thing regarding other translations. Nobody here is exalting the NIV, but you choose to knock it. That's no joke; it's just fallacious.
This is one example.
"Jer. 39:2 And in the eleventh year of Zedekiah, in the fourth month, the ninth day of the month, the city was broken up."
eleven means total destruction
four means creative works of God in the earth
nine means finality of judgment
This verse is about the taking of Jerusalem by the Chaldean Nebuchadrezzar.
The eleventh hour is just before destruction in the KJV, but it's 5:00 in the afternoon in the NIV. I guess that says it all. Believe what you want to believe.
"Jer. 39:2 And in the eleventh year of Zedekiah, in the fourth month, the ninth day of the month, the city was broken up."
eleven means total destruction
four means creative works of God in the earth
nine means finality of judgment
This verse is about the taking of Jerusalem by the Chaldean Nebuchadrezzar.
The eleventh hour is just before destruction in the KJV, but it's 5:00 in the afternoon in the NIV. I guess that says it all. Believe what you want to believe.
Thank you for your condescension. You do that well. I assume it is from much practice.
I fully understand the meaning of each of those words, I had simply not heard the term before.
I would also appreciate your NOT assuming that you know anything about my thoughts on the KJV. If you would read back just a few pages in this thread, you will find that I plainly stated that I have nothing against the KJV, other than it being written in an archaic style of English. It is a good translation... not perfect, but very good.
I simply prefer to read scripture in modern English. And I do not appreciate being told by KJV onlyists that I will be lost forever if I use any other translation.
I fully understand the meaning of each of those words, I had simply not heard the term before.
I would also appreciate your NOT assuming that you know anything about my thoughts on the KJV. If you would read back just a few pages in this thread, you will find that I plainly stated that I have nothing against the KJV, other than it being written in an archaic style of English. It is a good translation... not perfect, but very good.
I simply prefer to read scripture in modern English. And I do not appreciate being told by KJV onlyists that I will be lost forever if I use any other translation.
Lost forever? Holy Moly! That's not my judgment to make nor ever could be. I'm a sinner like most and I would never go there.
But don't forget the date 9/11. What do you want to bet that when we get again (and we will) that it'll be another monument to our financial prowess? What would that do to us with our 20 + trillion dollar debt? Have a good night.
But don't forget the date 9/11. What do you want to bet that when we get again (and we will) that it'll be another monument to our financial prowess? What would that do to us with our 20 + trillion dollar debt? Have a good night.
I'm curious... you claim that "the eleventh hour" means "just before destruction in the KJV". Please explain this assertion, since the phrase "the eleventh hour" appears only in this parable. Nowhere in Scripture is it stated that "eleven" means "just before destruction" - in any translation (nor do either of your other numerical meanings appear in Scripture).
Did the four squads of soldiers guarding Paul in Acts 12 represent God's creative work?
Did the number of David's sons (nine) in 1 Chronicles 3 represent finality of judgment?
Did the eleven days' journey in Deuteronomy 1 allude to "total destruction"?
Numbers may represent something more, and they may not. It's an error of hermeneutics to assume that every number has a specific meaning in every passage in which it appears; that just leads to unsupported interpretations like the one you have for the Matthew parable. Using such an interpretation as reason to deride the NIV (especially when it isn't even under discussion) is quite unnecessary.
Did the four squads of soldiers guarding Paul in Acts 12 represent God's creative work?
Did the number of David's sons (nine) in 1 Chronicles 3 represent finality of judgment?
Did the eleven days' journey in Deuteronomy 1 allude to "total destruction"?
Numbers may represent something more, and they may not. It's an error of hermeneutics to assume that every number has a specific meaning in every passage in which it appears; that just leads to unsupported interpretations like the one you have for the Matthew parable. Using such an interpretation as reason to deride the NIV (especially when it isn't even under discussion) is quite unnecessary.
Jesus was tempted of the devil in the wilderness and taught us, that to overcome the questions and temptations of the devil, we must know what is written of God.
Jesus said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Jesus said "It is written."
For the teaching of Jesus to benefit us, God has given us a holy book of scriptures, and the Holy Ghost to lead us into all truth.
The words of Jesus tell us the word of God is written.
Men that say the word of God is not written are telling a lie, either due to unbelief, or in ignorance that it is written.
Jesus said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Jesus said "It is written."
For the teaching of Jesus to benefit us, God has given us a holy book of scriptures, and the Holy Ghost to lead us into all truth.
The words of Jesus tell us the word of God is written.
Men that say the word of God is not written are telling a lie, either due to unbelief, or in ignorance that it is written.
Yes, it IS written.
It is written in King James English. It is written in plain English.
And in easy-to-read Russian Cyrillic
От Матфея 4 (Mathew 4:4)
Но Иисус ответил: «В Писании сказано:
„Не хлебом единым жив человек,
а всяким словом, исходящим из уст Божьих”».
Should native Russian speakers be cut off from the Word of God? Or did God use men to make sure his word got out to EVERY nation, tribe and language?
It is written in King James English. It is written in plain English.
And in easy-to-read Russian Cyrillic
От Матфея 4 (Mathew 4:4)
Но Иисус ответил: «В Писании сказано:
„Не хлебом единым жив человек,
а всяким словом, исходящим из уст Божьих”».
Should native Russian speakers be cut off from the Word of God? Or did God use men to make sure his word got out to EVERY nation, tribe and language?
Lets see:
"Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
Matt 4:10, KJV
Show me in the KJV this exact verse.
---
"Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."
Mt 4:7, KJV
Show me in the KJV this exact verse.
---
"Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad."
Mt 26:31, KJV
Show me in the KJV this exact verse.
---
"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
Mt 4:4
Show me in the KJV this exact verse.
=====
Remember, every word! Not even one can be different or lost.
"Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
Matt 4:10, KJV
Show me in the KJV this exact verse.
---
"Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."
Mt 4:7, KJV
Show me in the KJV this exact verse.
---
"Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad."
Mt 26:31, KJV
Show me in the KJV this exact verse.
---
"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
Mt 4:4
Show me in the KJV this exact verse.
=====
Remember, every word! Not even one can be different or lost.
Numbers in scripture can be understood in the Holy Bible by wisely noting how God uses them without contradiction throughout the whole bible.
This kind of understanding is not discovered in modern bibles due to the distortions of word usage in them.
There are no such distortions in the Holy Bible as any competent user of word search of the Holy Bible can verify for themselves.
I have not yet searched out the meaning of the numbers nine and eleven so I can't show the meaning they have in accordance with God's consistent use of them.
All words in the Holy Bible have consistent meaning and use by God in his book of the scriptures.
You can misapply use of numbers if you fail to seperate the numerical use of them by man as opposed to God's use of numbers. It isn't significant to note tallies that aren't contextually related to understanding narratives that God provides. However, when God ordains a thing such as his ordering of creation, or how Jesus makes use of a number, for example, then it is notable that God uses numbers and words precisely and doesn't deviate lest confusion arise in the minds of them that are weak in faith concerning his written word.
And, words can have a complex set of meaning.
The number four refers to "the world" on earth.
Thus, the four rivers that supplied the water to world on earth in the beginning..
The four seasons of the world.
The four cardinal directions of the world.
Six refers to man on earth.
Seven refers to completed work of God.
Eight refers to eternal.
etc.
Once you grasp the significance of a number as God signifies by his use of it, then insight is given.
For example, the six stone water pots at Cana signify God filling a man that is first emptied and cleansed of all former contents and then filled with the word of God to the brim. After which, if a man's heart is filled, the miracle of new life occurs.
For example, when we read of the four horses in Revelation we can understand that they are the four world wide movements that reveal the global attack of Satan in the end of days by means of global governance.
The four legs of the horses referring to the global extent of each rider's governance to the four corners of the earth.
The above is but a few examples.
This kind of understanding is not discovered in modern bibles due to the distortions of word usage in them.
There are no such distortions in the Holy Bible as any competent user of word search of the Holy Bible can verify for themselves.
I have not yet searched out the meaning of the numbers nine and eleven so I can't show the meaning they have in accordance with God's consistent use of them.
All words in the Holy Bible have consistent meaning and use by God in his book of the scriptures.
You can misapply use of numbers if you fail to seperate the numerical use of them by man as opposed to God's use of numbers. It isn't significant to note tallies that aren't contextually related to understanding narratives that God provides. However, when God ordains a thing such as his ordering of creation, or how Jesus makes use of a number, for example, then it is notable that God uses numbers and words precisely and doesn't deviate lest confusion arise in the minds of them that are weak in faith concerning his written word.
And, words can have a complex set of meaning.
The number four refers to "the world" on earth.
Thus, the four rivers that supplied the water to world on earth in the beginning..
The four seasons of the world.
The four cardinal directions of the world.
Six refers to man on earth.
Seven refers to completed work of God.
Eight refers to eternal.
etc.
Once you grasp the significance of a number as God signifies by his use of it, then insight is given.
For example, the six stone water pots at Cana signify God filling a man that is first emptied and cleansed of all former contents and then filled with the word of God to the brim. After which, if a man's heart is filled, the miracle of new life occurs.
For example, when we read of the four horses in Revelation we can understand that they are the four world wide movements that reveal the global attack of Satan in the end of days by means of global governance.
The four legs of the horses referring to the global extent of each rider's governance to the four corners of the earth.
The above is but a few examples.
Again, you present your own notion of perfection, not God's.
None of the verses you provided contradict what is written of God.
You can't present any contradiction you imagine can be noted by your assumption of perfection.
But as I have said, you will find many contradictions of truth in modern bibles.
You might not understand why God's measure is not according to your own.The reason is that requires of us both faith and sincerity or we can't understand. You search for error and you think you find it. But your premise is false. Where is your idea of perfection found in scripture?
The fact that you know Jesus told you the truth proves that you should've realized your notion of perfection is not of God.
None of the verses you provided contradict what is written of God.
You can't present any contradiction you imagine can be noted by your assumption of perfection.
But as I have said, you will find many contradictions of truth in modern bibles.
You might not understand why God's measure is not according to your own.The reason is that requires of us both faith and sincerity or we can't understand. You search for error and you think you find it. But your premise is false. Where is your idea of perfection found in scripture?
The fact that you know Jesus told you the truth proves that you should've realized your notion of perfection is not of God.
I was not requesting an explanation of the use or meaning of numbers in Scripture, thank you.
How would you know? Have you studied modern translations? I challenge you to find a single example of distortion of numbers in any modern Christian translation without comparing it to the KJV.
More hogwash based on a logical fallacy and ignorance of the text. A man cannot be twenty-two years old and forty-two years old at the same time.
Since you have made this assertion, and all Scripture is inspired by God, does the "four" in "four squads of soldiers" in Acts 12 refer to completion?
I suggest you re-read what you wrote, as you contradicted yourself. Is your "study" of Scripture replete with such creativity?
How would you know? Have you studied modern translations? I challenge you to find a single example of distortion of numbers in any modern Christian translation without comparing it to the KJV.
More hogwash based on a logical fallacy and ignorance of the text. A man cannot be twenty-two years old and forty-two years old at the same time.
Since you have made this assertion, and all Scripture is inspired by God, does the "four" in "four squads of soldiers" in Acts 12 refer to completion?
I suggest you re-read what you wrote, as you contradicted yourself. Is your "study" of Scripture replete with such creativity?