Does the Bible claim to be inerrant?
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What you posted shows that all versions you cited agree that the word means fulfilled or accomplished and that the KJV changed it
If you are referring to the fact that they use the past perfect and I use the present perfect; it is immaterial. Either the English present perfect or the English past perfect can translate the Greek perfect passive participle; and the difference between them is very small indeed. If something has been done it is indeed done.
If you are referring to the fact that they use the past perfect and I use the present perfect; it is immaterial. Either the English present perfect or the English past perfect can translate the Greek perfect passive participle; and the difference between them is very small indeed. If something has been done it is indeed done.
What you posted shows that all versions you cited agree that the word means fulfilled or accomplished and that the KJV changed it
If you are referring to the fact that they use the past perfect and I use the present perfect; it is immaterial. Either the English present perfect or the English past perfect can translate the Greek perfect passive participle; and the difference between them is very small indeed. If something has been done it is indeed done.
In English the past perfect speaks of action started in the past, the results of which persist into the present. it was accomplished in the past and it is still accomplished. The present perfect says it is accomplished without concern for when it happened.
If you are referring to the fact that they use the past perfect and I use the present perfect; it is immaterial. Either the English present perfect or the English past perfect can translate the Greek perfect passive participle; and the difference between them is very small indeed. If something has been done it is indeed done.
In English the past perfect speaks of action started in the past, the results of which persist into the present. it was accomplished in the past and it is still accomplished. The present perfect says it is accomplished without concern for when it happened.
You know very well well that I have stated my belief that the KJB is the word of God in other threads and you somehow think I should agree with your assertion that it was the result of textual criticism. Textual criticism did not create the numerical patterns found in the KJB. Textual Criticism did not encode the number Pi in 1 Kings 7:23, 1 Kings 7:24 and Isaiah 40:22. I have considered my biases and have decided to keep them!
Grammar using the parts of speech is always important to a large degree, but if someone were to say to me, "That don't make no nevermind nohow," I understand the content of thought given to the expression.
What I am trying to convey is this, in the forum,unless people are here for grammar lessons, as long as what is being shared is understood, the humble way is to continue in the sharing....
Of course there are instances when the specifics need to be stressed, . When this is the situatiñon by all means share the grammar............
What I am trying to convey is this, in the forum,unless people are here for grammar lessons, as long as what is being shared is understood, the humble way is to continue in the sharing....
Of course there are instances when the specifics need to be stressed, . When this is the situatiñon by all means share the grammar............
Actually the Greek word plerophoreo can have several meanings, depending on the context. One of those meanings is "fully convince" or "fully believe". So the KJV translators were certainly NOT in error when they put down "most surely believed". In fact, contextually it is more appropriate than "fully accomplished" since Luke wanted Theophilus to know "the certainty of those things".
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Strong's Concordance
plérophoreó: to bring in full measure, to fulfill
Original Word: πληροφορέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: plérophoreó
Phonetic Spelling: (play-rof-or-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I carry out fully, fully convince
Definition: (lit: I carry full), (a) I complete, carry out fully, (b) I fully convince, satisfy fully, (c) I fully believe.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4135: πληροφορέω
πληροθορηθεις, persuaded, fully convinced or assured,
[/TD]plérophoreó: to bring in full measure, to fulfill
Original Word: πληροφορέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: plérophoreó
Phonetic Spelling: (play-rof-or-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I carry out fully, fully convince
Definition: (lit: I carry full), (a) I complete, carry out fully, (b) I fully convince, satisfy fully, (c) I fully believe.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4135: πληροφορέω
πληροθορηθεις, persuaded, fully convinced or assured,
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There are no inerrant English translations of the bible. The bible has both verbal and plenary inspiration. The bible is God breathed and can be trusted to instruct men how to be saved and how to live for Christ.
The real question remains do you believe the bible? Do you believe you are a sinner? Do you believe you are justly deserving eternal condemnation because of your sin? Do you believe that Jesus is the spotless virgin born Lamb of God sacrificed to make full atonement for your sins? Do you believe that Jesus was buried and bodily rose again from the grave? Do you believe that Jesus ascended into heaven where He ever lives to make intercession for you?
Which bible you read to arrive at the correct conclusion is of no consequence. Only that you believe what the Holy Spirit teaches through the bible to bring men to Christ. To bring conviction of sin, to reveal the righteousness of Christ and the certainty of eternal condemnation. Jesus will save all who call upon Him to save them. Believers will repent and receive the Holy Spirit inheriting the hope of eternal life through Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The real question remains do you believe the bible? Do you believe you are a sinner? Do you believe you are justly deserving eternal condemnation because of your sin? Do you believe that Jesus is the spotless virgin born Lamb of God sacrificed to make full atonement for your sins? Do you believe that Jesus was buried and bodily rose again from the grave? Do you believe that Jesus ascended into heaven where He ever lives to make intercession for you?
Which bible you read to arrive at the correct conclusion is of no consequence. Only that you believe what the Holy Spirit teaches through the bible to bring men to Christ. To bring conviction of sin, to reveal the righteousness of Christ and the certainty of eternal condemnation. Jesus will save all who call upon Him to save them. Believers will repent and receive the Holy Spirit inheriting the hope of eternal life through Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Are you guys buying this crappola about the KJV is wrong on Luke 1???? Have any of you actually read the verses in context from both sides? The NIV rendering is complete nonsense, the sentence doesn't even make sense.
Luke 1 New International Version (NIV)
Introduction
1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellentTheophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
Verse 1 - Things that have been fulfilled among us.
Verse 2 - Those fulfilled things were HANDED DOWN to us?????? Fulfilled prophecy's were handed down by eye witnesses? No, the things they saw and heard about were handed down.
Seriously, is there any common sense here? Can you guys not see that Luke is organizing an account of the things they saw and believed. There is nothing about fulfilled prophecies in the context whatsoever.
Luke 1 New International Version (NIV)
Introduction
1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellentTheophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
Verse 1 - Things that have been fulfilled among us.
Verse 2 - Those fulfilled things were HANDED DOWN to us?????? Fulfilled prophecy's were handed down by eye witnesses? No, the things they saw and heard about were handed down.
Seriously, is there any common sense here? Can you guys not see that Luke is organizing an account of the things they saw and believed. There is nothing about fulfilled prophecies in the context whatsoever.
The KJV is wrong on nothing, every word is there for a specific purpose and every jot and tittle is invaluable. It is the Word of God in written form created for our ultimate benefit and the glory of God.
I believe that all major versions and translations are the Word of God and that God knew beforehand the form they would take. It is all spiritually inspired, and faithfully translated to conform to the current means of communication at the time that it is read, contemplated, and acted upon.
Personally, I prefer the NKJV but to each his own as led by the Holy Spirit. The important thing is to take in God's word, and act upon it in your humble service to the Lord performing the work that the heavenly Father has prepared beforehand.
I believe that all major versions and translations are the Word of God and that God knew beforehand the form they would take. It is all spiritually inspired, and faithfully translated to conform to the current means of communication at the time that it is read, contemplated, and acted upon.
Personally, I prefer the NKJV but to each his own as led by the Holy Spirit. The important thing is to take in God's word, and act upon it in your humble service to the Lord performing the work that the heavenly Father has prepared beforehand.
I am in perfect agreement with you and this subject. MarcR thinks he is a Bible translator and believes that "those things which are most surely believed among us" should read "those things which are fulfilled among us."
I already told him this makes no sense so I would prefer if you don't "lump me" in that group
I already told him this makes no sense so I would prefer if you don't "lump me" in that group
I am in perfect agreement with you and this subject. MarcR thinks he is a Bible translator and believes that "those things which are most surely believed among us" should read "those things which are fulfilled among us."
I already told him this makes no sense so I would prefer if you don't "lump me" in that group
I already told him this makes no sense so I would prefer if you don't "lump me" in that group