How To Be Un-Saved

[LightLoveHope]

I do not believe this, Because you would have to remove self from ther equation. And listening to you talk since you have been here, there is a lot of Pride.

For OSAS to be right, your pride would have to be broken.

A reasonable honest study of scriptures shows that Gods children, His lambs, His chosen ones, His adopted ones. His atoned ones. His beloved ones. His Justified ones. The ones he has perfected forever. And is in the process of sanctifying, His elect (whatever it is y90ou want to call them) are secure in him. Period.

I thought of an ironic twist, to the security people want so desperately without
getting their hearts sorted out.

Jesus said in the Kingdom there are sown weeds. The weeds do not know they are weeds
and go on their way believing they know the truth, except it is not inside them,
just an outward show.

Now they believe the promises apply to them, and try and claim they are true, but from
eternity to eternity they are lost. So the promises are true and God will honor them
for His chosen, His people. The apostles point out many seemed to come to faith, but
then leave showing they were not truly chosen.

So the irony is OSAS may be true for the chosen, but we will never know, because
even the chosen do not know nor the weeds. All we know is if your heart is not
resolved and love does not flow in your life to others, you do not know Jesus.

Paul talks about testing ourselves, to which I cry, amen. Not negatively, but because
if we have ears to hear, and an open heart, we can go to Christ and He will heal us and
make us whole, Praise the Lord, Amen.

 

[Ralph-]

Exactly what kind of "belief" was this in the first place in Luke 8:13 and Matthew 13:21? If it was saving belief, then where is the fruit? Faith without works is dead. The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." Problem from the start. Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

In John 6:70, we read - Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

In John 6:64, we read - But there are someof you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

In John 13:10, we read - Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, "You are not all clean." Judas did not lose salvation. He never had it.

So why did Jesus choose Judas? In John 13:18, we read - I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’

In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64, 71; 13:10-11).

Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

Jesus said the 2nd type of soil believed. That's good enough for me. That's what he said. You can say the 2nd type of soil didn't believe if you want. That's your choice. Me? I'm going with what Jesus said.

And as far as the Judas thing, he disproves the argument that God doesn't save people knowing they will fall away later because that would be foolish. Not because Judas was saved and lost his salvation (he was not saved), but because God did what seems foolish to us. He brought an unbeliever right into Jesus' midst and gave him a position of ministry knowing all along that he was not a believer, never would be, and would actually betray him. That's foolish. Yet he did it anyway. God does things that seem foolish to mere mortals. NEVER base an argument for God not doing something because it is foolish. Doing that is what is foolish.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

WRONG! Had NOTHING to do with Judas losing his salvation. Go back and reread the discussion.....this time without your indoctrination steering what you're reading into what you expect to see.

lol

chill

ill go back and reread
if you werent making the same common mistake most who point to works make when speaking of judas then im sorry...

its so early its still dark out over here

and youre constantly making strawmen in order to give glory to self

if you want me to post a series of your lies and manipulations and imputing beliefs to others and rejecting reproof i can


but i dont want to do the same thing

and before i even re-read

i apologise for falsely accusing you of saying judas lost salvation

it was my mistake

honestly

i just saw the name "judas"
and assumed thats what you were doing based off your past tactics

(as well as the false gospel being pushed by others who claim a born again believer can possibly lose salvation)

 

[Ralph-]

lol

chill

ill go back and reread
if you werent making the same common mistake most who point to works make when speaking of judas then im sorry...

its so early its still dark out over here

and youre constantly making strawmen in order to give glory to self

if you want me to post a series of your lies and manipulations and imputing beliefs to others and rejecting reproof i can


but i dont want to do the same thing

and before i even re-read

i apologise for falsely accusing you of saying judas lost salvation

it was my mistake

honestly

i just saw the name "judas"
and assumed thats what you were doing based off your past tactics

(as well as the false gospel being pushed by others who claim a born again believer can possibly lose salvation)

This is what is called a back handed apology. But thank you for apologizing anyway.

 

[MichaelOwen]

The Word tells us that God resists the proud, and he is gracious to those who are humble in heart. Pride I believe is the number one thing that keeps people lost and Christians out of fellowship with the Lord, that pride of, Well I don't need God or I can do this on my own, I am fine just the way I am......that couldn't be further from the truth. Without God is nothing......without Jesus we are nothing......

The more I read into these threads, the more I realize that it's hard to pick out false doctrine, and it's hard to talk to people with a different point of view on something, because even the tiniest bit of pride can creep in, and when it does, you get high minded, and you get arrogant, aggressive, and sometimes, downright mean....that's what pride did for me. And I still let my pride get in the way sometimes, and I know I'm wrong for doing that, and the Lord usually breaks me of that too.

I believe the Word is very clear that once we are saved through Jesus Christ, we are saved forever more. There isn't a verse of scripture that says a follower of Jesus can get lost.

"I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine." John 10:14

Jesus knows who are His, and those who aren't. A person is either saved, or a person has not come to know Jesus or rejected Him.....I believe that's pretty simple. Doesn't mean you can't come to know Jesus, you can come to know Him at anytime, Romans 10 : 9-10 tells us this, all you need to do is believe it in your heart, and Jesus will save you, forevermore.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

This is what is called a back handed apology. But thank you for apologizing anyway.

*sigh*

youre right...

it wasnt sincere...


i just reread what you said

even though i consider you a false preacher
and many other things i stand against...


i did just falsely accuse you of saying something you did not say

(i just read what you actually said)


i didnt even pay attention to your words this time
i just spoke without giving you a chance

that wasnt what Jesus would have done


im sorry

 

[Ralph-]

Time out from your arguing for a moment.

Do you think it is a good thing that DJ2 is liking with all your posts?

Yes. Why not?

 

[Gracie_14]

This is what is called a back handed apology. But thank you for apologizing anyway.

sorry for being so ignorant… but whats a back-handed apology? something not sincere?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

sorry for being so ignorant… but whats a back-handed apology? something not sincere?

thats exactly what it is


and thats exactly what i did...

i gave an apology while at the same time not actually being sorry and making excuses

 

[Gracie_14]

sorry for being so ignorant… but whats a back-handed apology? something not sincere?

got it! nevermind!

 

[LightLoveHope]

Since when were you made judge of who is truly saved and who is lost?

You're not Sola Scriptura and are placing subjective reason and personal experience above the Word. Dogs and hogs return to their vomit and wallowing respectively. Sheep don't become hogs, dogs or goats.

As you know how to judge people and call people sheep or goats, dogs or hogs, what are you?
Your whole analogy assumes anyone can truly say they are saved, when it is only Jesus who will
declare this on the last day from the Lambs book of life.
One believer claimed God could turned dogs and hogs into sheep. If so why not the other
way around?

I do not believe people can change, and people follow a predictable path based on how they
deal with life and issues. Gods calling is to all, but only a few hear and turn and walk.
If all were saved on cc. I would be surprised, simply because of the denial of some basic
principles of Heaven and walking with the Lord. According to scripture, with the same Holy
Spirit we are one in heart and mind.

It is illuminating when the most judgmental want to correct others about being judgmental,
but then why would it be otherwise.

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Matt 7:2

I praise the Lord that so many want to contend to understand Gods word and discuss
His great salvation, Amen.

 

[Gracie_14]

thats exactly what it is


and thats exactly what i did...

i gave an apology while at the same time not actually being sorry and making excuses

hmm yeah… i get into that habit of that myself.

but, humilty is important. and you did sincerely apologise later.

 

[MichaelOwen]

"But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." James 4:6

Can you all not just let this go and stop accusing and slandering one another?

We are brothers and sisters in Christ

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Really? Maybe so?

But if so, then perhaps "listening to you (EG) talk since you have been here, there is a lot of Pride. For OSAS to be wrong your pride would have to be broken. A reasonable study of Scripture shows that God's children, His lambs . . . are secure in Him" while they are believing in Him, . . .

I am not trying to accuse you, EG. What I am trying to do is to point out that you (in this post) may be turning to assumption and accusation rather than simply using Scripture as the basis for your arguments.

If you accuse someone of being proud, selfish, and not reasonable studying Scripture, then they are likely to turn around and use the same arguments against you. And then no one will profit.

In actuality, using presumption rather that Scripture only makes your own position seem weaker!

I am using scripture my friend, I am not trying to use my belief to interpret scripture. Like you are. I am using scripture to form my belief.

You want to twist the word. And say the word focuses on a present tense word. Where as I focus on the subject.

The subject (his sheep) hear his voice and follow. That is what the passage says.

What it does not say, is his sheep are those who are presently hearing and following.

As for my position. People believe whatever they wish, it is no worry to me. All I care about is what I believe. And making sure that people who may come in have enough information to make a choice.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Not upsetting the lost

A church is full of nice people, and I mean really nice. They would never regard themselves
as sinners, or at least they do not do things that bad openly.

So the preacher, as long as he compliments his congregation and encourages them that
everything will be fine, and giving to good causes is all that is required, everything goes on.

So the argument is always, do not upset x or the church will collapse and nothing will continue.
Except x does not know the Lord, or love, or reality, and is living in delusion and sin has them
captive with a gloss of being nice. This is the church without heart change, without sacrifice
and commitment, without reaching out with the Holy Spirit from a pure heart, because no one
is clean or has a clue what a resolved, Spirit filled life actually is.

There are now atheist churches where everyone likes the performance, but have no faith.
Funny how they appear the same as many who claim faith alone is everything.

 

[Speak2Me]

What it gives us is an indication of the strength of her faith, not that it never existed in her or not. Though so many have been conditioned to automatically think she never believed at all to begin with.

Like I have said, faith in the Bible is more of a 'strong faith vs. weak faith' thing, rather than a 'faith vs. no faith at all' thing. Persecutions, afflictions, and temptations show us how deep our roots go down and reveal how much the forgiveness of our sins means to us and how strong our love for righteousness really is.

I agree.

That to me is another reason why we have the Parable of the Sower.

It shows different levels of faith as well as different obstacles to those believing.

 

[Chester]

I am using scripture my friend, I am not trying to use my belief to interpret scripture. Like you are. I am using scripture to form my belief.

You want to twist the word. And say the word focuses on a present tense word. Where as I focus on the subject.

The subject (his sheep) hear his voice and follow. That is what the passage says.

What it does not say, is his sheep are those who are presently hearing and following.

As for my position. People believe whatever they wish, it is no worry to me. All I care about is what I believe. And making sure that people who may come in have enough information to make a choice.

I was not talking about our previous discussion about John 10: I have no problems with our debate over that text: a fair enough exchange I thought: we disagree but our argument was over the text.

I was talking about your response to DJ2 on post 395.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi all , just popping in from under my duvet , its snowing heavily here in England...

1. God our Father draws us to Him
2, He calls us to His Son.
3.We are sealed by His Holy Spirit...

By His grace alone , we have been saved , now we start walking in our faith , our faith is a gift from God ...There are some who have a superficial belief , they are full of their own joy , they run on their emotions , these are the ones who do not have saving faith...

We are children of God , we have been called , we have heard , we follow our LORD and Savior because we know His voice...Why does man have to make what our Lord Jesus Christ has done for us so difficult to understand , because man trusts in himself in his own understanding instead of trusting in our LORD...

What part of God being the starter and finisher of our faith do people not understand...I can understand those who sit on the fence having these unsure feelings , they feel this way because they have not given their life to Christ , but when we become children of God , that is who we are...We are not superficial , we are officially born again , sealed , saved , and nothing can snatch us out of the Hand of God...xox...

 

[MichaelOwen]

Hi all , just popping in from under my duvet , its snowing heavily here in England...

1. God our Father draws us to Him
2, He calls us to His Son.
3.We are sealed by His Holy Spirit...

By His grace alone , we have been saved , now we start walking in our faith , our faith is a gift from God ...There are some who have a superficial belief , they are full of their own joy , they run on their emotions , these are the ones who do not have saving faith...

We are children of God , we have been called , we have heard , we follow our LORD and Savior because we know His voice...Why does man have to make what our Lord Jesus Christ has done for us so difficult to understand , because man trusts in himself in his own understanding instead of trusting in our LORD...

What part of God being the starter and finisher of our faith do people not understand...I can understand those who sit on the fence having these unsure feelings , they feel this way because they have not given their life to Christ , but when we become children of God , that is who we are...We are not superficial , we are officially born again , sealed , saved , and nothing can snatch us out of the Hand of God...xox...

^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS is Spiritual discernment here at it's best.........Amen RoseMary, love you sis!

 

[Chester]

The Word tells us that God resists the proud, and he is gracious to those who are humble in heart. Pride I believe is the number one thing that keeps people lost and Christians out of fellowship with the Lord, that pride of, Well I don't need God or I can do this on my own, I am fine just the way I am......that couldn't be further from the truth. Without God is nothing......without Jesus we are nothing......

The more I read into these threads, the more I realize that it's hard to pick out false doctrine, and it's hard to talk to people with a different point of view on something, because even the tiniest bit of pride can creep in, and when it does, you get high minded, and you get arrogant, aggressive, and sometimes, downright mean....that's what pride did for me. And I still let my pride get in the way sometimes, and I know I'm wrong for doing that, and the Lord usually breaks me of that too.

I believe the Word is very clear that once we are saved through Jesus Christ, we are saved forever more. There isn't a verse of scripture that says a follower of Jesus can get lost.

"I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine." John 10:14

Jesus knows who are His, and those who aren't. A person is either saved, or a person has not come to know Jesus or rejected Him.....I believe that's pretty simple. Doesn't mean you can't come to know Jesus, you can come to know Him at anytime, Romans 10 : 9-10 tells us this, all you need to do is believe it in your heart, and Jesus will save you, forevermore.

Great! I am on complete agreement with you on the pride issue - and I probably have enough of it myself.

But if I dare say you may be getting a little preachy and arrogant yourself? Why?

Why don't you just say: I believe the Word says that once we are saved . . . Note you insert the words "very clear". Later you say "that's pretty simple" -- That seems a bit of slam to those of us who do not believe in OSAS - LOL!

Having said that, I am OK with you using words like that - we all do - and I do myself because I am passionate about what I believe. Just pointing out that you may be as arrogant as the rest of us . . .