How To Be Un-Saved

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Mar 28, 2016
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Yet the RCC is still labeled as "Christian" to the rest of the world and isn't it interesting that they are strong advocates of NOSAS, along with other "nominal" Christian churches that teach works salvation. Red flag! Apparently what I explained in post #484 and #487 just went right over your head.
I would agree all sects have their own private interpretation of His interpretation the bible as heresies ....A word that means sect or denomination .But not all make the grace of Christ without effect showing their opinions as damnable or something we can judge as we do offer the gospel .

They simply redefined the word heresy making their own private interpretation the source of grace seeking the approval of the fathers as oral traditions of men .

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:(sola scriptura)

1Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,603
113
Pardon him. He hasn't had his coffee yet.. lol


I said, "
All those sheep who are hearing his voice and He is knowing them, and they are following him (verse 27): these are "
kept by the power of God" -
Do you agree with what I wrote there?

I have no trouble agreeing with everything you wrote in your post: if you want to put the focus on the subject rather than the verbs (as you say I was doing), that is fine. The verses still give the same promises to the sheep.

I am not sure what you meant by "Verne's"? LOL!
:D
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Hebrews Chp.12 verse 2 portion 1(KJV)
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
And I know what to expect someone will probably say "that's taken out of context" or "that's not a whole verse" but "it still stands" Jesus made it possible for Christians to be saved by believing and accepting what he did for us,once again proving that "none come to the father except through the son",Jesus did more than we could ever do,and "stepping out from under our pride and ego" is a good first step to being saved.
I'm sure all of us think up things to want to do in a day to "justify" ourselves before our Lord and Saviour Jesus but think of it which "justifies"?
thinking up ideas or "letting the holy spirit guide you"?
accepting that we are sinners and "need the holy spirit's help" or "doing things for Jesus ourselves claiming to be perfect and know what we're doing"?
I think often of the publican and the pharisee the publican smote his chest saying"I am a sinner God save me" and the pharisee saying "I thank thee God that I am not like other people nor like this publican for I give tithes and so on...(talking about all he had done)
and the publican "was Justified" but the pharisee was not, for the publican "Glorified God" where as the pharisee "Glorified himself".
 
Sep 14, 2017
900
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0
If people get unsaved, then it has to be Jesus' fault!

God's not big enough to keep them saved!

If God can't keep everybody, then He's a liar!

We're eternally saved, no matter what we do!

That means once we do our one-time believe Jesus thing, I can now do whatever I want & still go to heaven!

Now I can do whatever I want, or refuse to do anything God wants me to do!

I can fight on CC & name call & mock all my opponents!

I can rebel from God & still go to heaven!

There is no falling away for christians, even though the Bible says so!

All those warnings in the NT are not for me, cuz my salvation can't be touched, not even by me! I dunno why the apostles wrote them.......

All of those warnings in the epistles are written to gnostics, Judiazers, fake christians & all the other sinners. None of them was written to the church, because they're automatically going to heaven.

Sinners are the ones falling away into apostasy.

All those falling away are fake christians.

There's no such thing as a christian backslider.

All who are showing evidence of faith with works are deluded & legalists & are going to Hell even though everybody who made their one-time decision of faith are saved.

No famous, popular, world-loved preacher is a freemason or going to Hell.

We should all get along & seek peace with those that believe heresy.

We shouldn't expose sin, because that hurts people's feelings & starts arguments with the ones sinning.

It's open season for "legalists". Fight with them & accuse & mock them all you want, because you can't be judged for it.

It's ok to lie on a legalist, misquote them, & falsely accuse them cuz they're going to hell anyway.

It's ok to do whatever necessary to win the argument with a legalist, even destroy their reputation if necessary.

Setting up a legalist to get them banned is alright, just don't openly admit to it.

The sooner we ban the legalists, the better off CC will be.

Those that believe in faithfulness to God to keep from backsliding are legalists & sinners. They are not saved because they mentioned works.

If anyone claiming to be a christian falls away, none of them were never saved to begin with, not even if they manifested God's love.

God predestined your salvation, so you're going to heaven no matter what you do.

Satan was thrown outta heaven for his rebellion, but saved rebels are going to heaven.

I've seen these attitudes in the BDF. They won't openly say them, but they live them.

Who are these people? Too many to tell on.

NOT EVERYBODY.

But a great majority.

Be rest assured yours truly will be the #1 sinner for saying it.

I'm not derailing the Op, I'm responding to it.

Some will say it's just my opinion. It is proper to state your opinion on CC, isn't it?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I said, "
All those sheep who are hearing his voice and He is knowing them, and they are following him (verse 27): these are "
kept by the power of God" -
Do you agree with what I wrote there?

I have no trouble agreeing with everything you wrote in your post: if you want to put the focus on the subject rather than the verbs (as you say I was doing), that is fine. The verses still give the same promises to the sheep.

I am not sure what you meant by "Verne's"? LOL!
:D

Lets see if this will help.,

I see it saying, HIS SHEEP ARE those who hear his voice, and Those who follow him, and ARE kept by the power of God.

What I see you saying. his sheep ARE THOSE WHO ARe PRESENTLY HEARING, AND THOSE WHO AR PRESENTLY FOLLOWING AND THOSE WHO ARE PRESENTLY BEING KEPT

Now can you tell me the differences between those two saying. They both say different things because the highlight is on different words.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,349
113
If people get unsaved, then it has to be Jesus' fault!

God's not big enough to keep them saved!

If God can't keep everybody, then He's a liar!

We're eternally saved, no matter what we do!

That means once we do our one-time believe Jesus thing, I can now do whatever I want & still go to heaven!

Now I can do whatever I want, or refuse to do anything God wants me to do!

I can fight on CC & name call & mock all my opponents!

I can rebel from God & still go to heaven!

There is no falling away for christians, even though the Bible says so!

All those warnings in the NT are not for me, cuz my salvation can't be touched, not even by me! I dunno why the apostles wrote them.......

All of those warnings in the epistles are written to gnostics, Judiazers, fake christians & all the other sinners. None of them was written to the church, because they're automatically going to heaven.

Sinners are the ones falling away into apostasy.

All those falling away are fake christians.

There's no such thing as a christian backslider.

All who are showing evidence of faith with works are deluded & legalists & are going to Hell even though everybody who made their one-time decision of faith are saved.

No famous, popular, world-loved preacher is a freemason or going to Hell.

We should all get along & seek peace with those that believe heresy.

We shouldn't expose sin, because that hurts people's feelings & starts arguments with the ones sinning.

It's open season for "legalists". Fight with them & accuse & mock them all you want, because you can't be judged for it.

It's ok to lie on a legalist, misquote them, & falsely accuse them cuz they're going to hell anyway.

It's ok to do whatever necessary to win the argument with a legalist, even destroy their reputation if necessary.

Setting up a legalist to get them banned is alright, just don't openly admit to it.

The sooner we ban the legalists, the better off CC will be.

Those that believe in faithfulness to God to keep from backsliding are legalists & sinners. They are not saved because they mentioned works.

If anyone claiming to be a christian falls away, none of them were never saved to begin with, not even if they manifested God's love.

God predestined your salvation, so you're going to heaven no matter what you do.

Satan was thrown outta heaven for his rebellion, but saved rebels are going to heaven.

I've seen these attitudes in the BDF. They won't openly say them, but they live them.

Who are these people? Too many to tell on.

NOT EVERYBODY.

But a great majority.

Be rest assured yours truly will be the #1 sinner for saying it.

I'm not derailing the Op, I'm responding to it.

Some will say it's just my opinion. It is proper to state your opinion on CC, isn't it?
I won't go into your post above.

But yes. This is a Christian website where we can state, talk and discuss what we believe.
Anything outside the TOS are the only things that I understand are no no.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.


If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).

Jesus would have to do the following:

Quit as their defense attorney (1 Jn 2:1)
No longer protect or keep them safe (Jn 17:9-12)
Divorce them (Rev 19:7)
Rescind their citizenship of Heaven (Jn 15:16; Eph 2:12-13,19)
Put them back into the world (Jn 17:16)
Blot out their names from the book of life (Rev 3:5)
Allow death and life, angels and rulers, things present and things to come, powers, height, and depth, and anything else in all creation, to separate them from the love of God found in Him (Rom 8:38-39)
No longer be their advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1)
Make them an un-new creation (2 Cor 5:17);
Make them un-near to Him (Eph 2:12-13,19)
Un-bury them and un-baptize them so that they will no longer walk in newness of life(Rom 6:4)
Un-crucify their old nature (Gal 2:20)
Un-adopt them (Rom 8:23)
Un-circumcise them (Col 2:11)
Un-complete them (Col 2:9-10)
Un-author their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-finish their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-hold them from the firm grasp of His hand (John 10:28-29)
Un-buy and refund the payment He made by His blood
Un-predestine them so they can no longer be conformed to His image
Un-sanctify them (John 17:17; Heb 10:14)
Un-deliver them from the domain of darkness (Col 1:13)
Un-transfer them out of His kingdom, where they were once conditionally sanctified daily (Rom 8:28-31; Eph 1:11)
Un-call them (Rom 8:30,9:24,; 1 Cor 1:2,9; Gal 5:13; Eph 1:18)
Un-justify them (Rom 3:24,28,5:9,10:10; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:7)
Un-glorify them (Rom 8:25, 28-31)
Un-cancel all their spiritual debts (Col 2:13-14)
Un-seal them (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:13, 4:30)
Un-wash them (Tutus 3:5)
Un-forgive them of all their sins (1 Cor 6:11)
Un-forget their sins (Heb 10:17)
Un-consider them holy (Eph 1:4)
Un-consider them blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4, 2:8; Rom 8:9,11:6)
Un-buy them (1 Cor: 6:19-20, 7:23-24)
Un-born them (1 Jn 2:29, 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18)
Move out from living within them as the new Holy of Holies (1 John 2:19, 3:6,9; Rom 8:9)
Revoke their position of no longer living in His new nature (Rom 8:9)
Rescind and fail to honor His promise to never leave and forsake them (Heb 13:5)
Go back on and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37).

God, the Holy Spirit, who was given as a guarantee (2 Cor 5:5) would have to do the following:
Cut them out of His Will as co-heirs with Jesus (Rom 8:17).
Un-fill them (becoming un-Born-Again) (Col 2:9-10);
Un-anoint them (1 John 2:27)
Stop and undo His good work begun in them (Phil 1:6, 2:13)
Fail to honor His promise to keep them from stumbling until the end when Jesus comes again (1 Cor 1:8; Jude 1:24-25).

To say that an individual could be separated from the love of God or remove themselves from His firm grasp, and His promise to NEVER leave them, after He bought and paid for them, and they are His possession, as well as His dwelling place, the Holy of Holies, is at the very least, illogical and intellectually incongruous.

When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word.

Just saying...

First of all, the bible doesn't use the phrase "lose your salvation", since salvation is received at the end of your faith.



  • receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9


What we have in this life is salvation by faith in Jesus Christ.


Faith is the substance of the thing you are hoping for.


Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1



Those who have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, have the hope of salvation, which they will receive when Jesus Christ returns to gather His people on the Day of Judgement.


27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:27-28


  • To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.


What can indeed happen during our life, is we can depart from the faith, which is the substance of our salvation to come, in which we become lost, like Jesus taught us about the prodigal son, as well as the sheep who belonged to the shepherd that wandered off and became lost.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1




  • Prodigal Son
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:32


again


4
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



  • I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.



Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.


Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.




JPT





 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Hebrews Chp.12 verse 2 portion 1(KJV)
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
And I know what to expect someone will probably say "that's taken out of context" or "that's not a whole verse" but "it still stands" Jesus made it possible for Christians to be saved by believing and accepting what he did for us,once again proving that "none come to the father except through the son",Jesus did more than we could ever do,and "stepping out from under our pride and ego" is a good first step to being saved.
I'm sure all of us think up things to want to do in a day to "justify" ourselves before our Lord and Saviour Jesus but think of it which "justifies"?
thinking up ideas or "letting the holy spirit guide you"?
accepting that we are sinners and "need the holy spirit's help" or "doing things for Jesus ourselves claiming to be perfect and know what we're doing"?
I think often of the publican and the pharisee the publican smote his chest saying"I am a sinner God save me" and the pharisee saying "I thank thee God that I am not like other people nor like this publican for I give tithes and so on...(talking about all he had done)
and the publican "was Justified" but the pharisee was not, for the publican "Glorified God" where as the pharisee "Glorified himself".
I think it fits the context perfectly or completely. Its our new faith that comes from hearing His voice .He authored it or began it and perfected it as that which will endure to the finish.The day of jesus Christ..

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
 
B

Bella37

Guest
From my Bible Knowledge- If we grieve, The HOLY SPIRIT, we can lose our Salvation.

Love & Hugs!

Bella xo :) <><<
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,702
13,086
113
Those who have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, have the hope of salvation, which they will receive when Jesus Christ returns to gather His people on the Day of Judgement.
That is really NOT what "the hope of salvation" means. And believers do not wait until the (general) Day of Judgment either. Salvation includes justification, sanctification, and glorification. Justification occurs the moment a sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. He or she receives the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift of eternal life by grace through faith. That person is born again, becomes a child of God, and is deemed to be as righteous as Christ. Sanctification must follow immediately after that, where the believer is separating himself from sin and evil and growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Savior. Glorification occurs at the Resurrection/Rapture, when those who are alive are perfected, transformed, and receive glorified immortal bodies, and those who are dead in Christ receive their glorified resurrection bodies. So "the hope of salvation" is the ULTIMATE PERFECTION of the saint (1 John 3:1-3). And the only judgment which believers face is at the Judgment Seat of Christ, where their works are judged. Their salvation, however, is eternally secure, since salvation is a supernatural work of God and is wholly based on the finished redemptive work of Christ.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.


If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).

Jesus would have to do the following:

Quit as their defense attorney (1 Jn 2:1)
No longer protect or keep them safe (Jn 17:9-12)
Divorce them (Rev 19:7)
Rescind their citizenship of Heaven (Jn 15:16; Eph 2:12-13,19)
Put them back into the world (Jn 17:16)
Blot out their names from the book of life (Rev 3:5)
Allow death and life, angels and rulers, things present and things to come, powers, height, and depth, and anything else in all creation, to separate them from the love of God found in Him (Rom 8:38-39)
No longer be their advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1)
Make them an un-new creation (2 Cor 5:17);
Make them un-near to Him (Eph 2:12-13,19)
Un-bury them and un-baptize them so that they will no longer walk in newness of life(Rom 6:4)
Un-crucify their old nature (Gal 2:20)
Un-adopt them (Rom 8:23)
Un-circumcise them (Col 2:11)
Un-complete them (Col 2:9-10)
Un-author their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-finish their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-hold them from the firm grasp of His hand (John 10:28-29)
Un-buy and refund the payment He made by His blood
Un-predestine them so they can no longer be conformed to His image
Un-sanctify them (John 17:17; Heb 10:14)
Un-deliver them from the domain of darkness (Col 1:13)
Un-transfer them out of His kingdom, where they were once conditionally sanctified daily (Rom 8:28-31; Eph 1:11)
Un-call them (Rom 8:30,9:24,; 1 Cor 1:2,9; Gal 5:13; Eph 1:18)
Un-justify them (Rom 3:24,28,5:9,10:10; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:7)
Un-glorify them (Rom 8:25, 28-31)
Un-cancel all their spiritual debts (Col 2:13-14)
Un-seal them (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:13, 4:30)
Un-wash them (Tutus 3:5)
Un-forgive them of all their sins (1 Cor 6:11)
Un-forget their sins (Heb 10:17)
Un-consider them holy (Eph 1:4)
Un-consider them blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4, 2:8; Rom 8:9,11:6)
Un-buy them (1 Cor: 6:19-20, 7:23-24)
Un-born them (1 Jn 2:29, 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18)
Move out from living within them as the new Holy of Holies (1 John 2:19, 3:6,9; Rom 8:9)
Revoke their position of no longer living in His new nature (Rom 8:9)
Rescind and fail to honor His promise to never leave and forsake them (Heb 13:5)
Go back on and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37).

God, the Holy Spirit, who was given as a guarantee (2 Cor 5:5) would have to do the following:
Cut them out of His Will as co-heirs with Jesus (Rom 8:17).
Un-fill them (becoming un-Born-Again) (Col 2:9-10);
Un-anoint them (1 John 2:27)
Stop and undo His good work begun in them (Phil 1:6, 2:13)
Fail to honor His promise to keep them from stumbling until the end when Jesus comes again (1 Cor 1:8; Jude 1:24-25).

To say that an individual could be separated from the love of God or remove themselves from His firm grasp, and His promise to NEVER leave them, after He bought and paid for them, and they are His possession, as well as His dwelling place, the Holy of Holies, is at the very least, illogical and intellectually incongruous.

When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word.

Just saying...
I can't see how one who is truly His, has experienced His goodness could ever leave. To me, it's impossible for either to happen.

My oxford bible states in a footnote, that some come under the light, but not fully all the way in. ? Possible?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,129
13,141
113
58
That is really NOT what "the hope of salvation" means. And believers do not wait until the (general) Day of Judgment either. Salvation includes justification, sanctification, and glorification. Justification occurs the moment a sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. He or she receives the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift of eternal life by grace through faith. That person is born again, becomes a child of God, and is deemed to be as righteous as Christ. Sanctification must follow immediately after that, where the believer is separating himself from sin and evil and growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Savior. Glorification occurs at the Resurrection/Rapture, when those who are alive are perfected, transformed, and receive glorified immortal bodies, and those who are dead in Christ receive their glorified resurrection bodies. So "the hope of salvation" is the ULTIMATE PERFECTION of the saint (1 John 3:1-3). And the only judgment which believers face is at the Judgment Seat of Christ, where their works are judged. Their salvation, however, is eternally secure, since salvation is a supernatural work of God and is wholly based on the finished redemptive work of Christ.
Amen! There are 3 tenses to salvation: 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification).
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
From my Bible Knowledge- If we grieve, The HOLY SPIRIT, we can lose our Salvation.

Love & Hugs!

Bella xo :) <><<
The bible says you can grieve the HS which you were sealed until the day or redemption (ressurection day)

Grieving does not mean losing. It says you were sealed from the time you are sealed until the day of redemption. And during this time you are sealed. You can grieve the HS. But if it could be lost. It would. Not say you were sealed unto the day of redemption. It would say you were sealed until the day you grieved him.