How To Be Un-Saved

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Really doesn't matter because God has control whether they want Him to or not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
That includes us, when from time to time that little voice gets in our head saying we are not worthy. And we need to take control or else we may not make it.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,882
4,334
113
Many are ignoring a lot of scripture that indicates we can but it is not a critical issue unless we become careless and wander back into a worldly lifestyle, rebelling against God.
Anything we do that does not align with God and his words and promises is rebelling against God.
Anything we don't do is the same.

Matthew 6:25-27
Do Not Worry
25 “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?


Matthew 6:31-34


31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

The worldly lifestyle is not limited to what we do but also to what we don't do.
 

jimd

Member
Dec 9, 2017
124
20
18
Is it that, or is it those who ignore scripture that says we can’t because they want to maintain control? They find it to difficult to give control to a God you can not see.
I cannot answer for others but I know God has control as long as I look to Him. He gave man a choice in the beginning and as far as I know has not taken it away.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I cannot answer for others but I know God has control as long as I look to Him. He gave man a choice in the beginning and as far as I know has not taken it away.
He said he will never let us go., He will never let us fall. He says that christ will never lose even one person.

Yes he gave man a choice. But those who have recieved him and KNOW experiential the true love of our father will NEVER want to leave him. Those who desire to leave, in my view. Never truly recieved hi in the first place. Because God will never give them a reason to walk away. You do not lose faiht in people who never let you down. You lose faith in people and walk away in people who are untrustworthy.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,882
4,334
113
I cannot answer for others but I know God has control as long as I look to Him. He gave man a choice in the beginning and as far as I know has not taken it away.
Ah yes free will.

Adam and Eve had it.

Then at one point they chose to disobey God.

We know that they walked with God before that point or try God walked with them.

Either way we find

Genesis 3:8-9


8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”

So even after they were disobedient God still sought them out.
And he actually made clothes for them and set the plan of salvation at that time (or before that time based on one's theological bent)

Salvation, when is it received?

When we place our faith in Jesus.
Then we are his sheep.

Yet sheep

Isaiah 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Luke 15:4-7


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Sheep will go astray.
In fact sheep are dumb animals (ask a sheep farmer, that's why they have sheep dogs)
They wander off, get stuck and have no idea how to get back. They cry out or should I say they bleat "baaah Baah"

When they here the voice of the farmer or the bark of the do they turn their heads to the voice.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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What is sin? Sin is transgression of the Law.

As usual, you completely gloss over the fact Christians have no sin to be accountable for.

None, Ralph. Not a single one.

So, what is this sin you keep harping on about?

And as far as obedience goes - are you perfectly obedient?

Let me help you with that - no, no you are not. If you want to add obedience as a sign you are saved, and if one sin accountable to us means we are lost and going to hell, you'd better have your relatives pack a ton of aloe vera in your coffin when you die.

Because, yet again, name one good work a saved person can do that a lost person can't.
Hi Budman,

You should listen to Ralph here. If you have repented from your sins and by faith believe God's WORD and accepted God's GIFT of FORGIVENESS through the BLOOD of Christ you are indeed free from your sin in FORGIVENESS. However, if you are CONTINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN God's WORD says you have counted the BLOOD of the COVENANT an UNHOLY thing and are crucifying God's son afresh because you are STILL in your SINS because you have not truly given them to Jesus.

If you are still in your SINS you do not KNOW him who calls you IN LOVE to LOVE another.

Hebrews 4
4,
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7, For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes often upon it, and brings forth plants fit for them by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God:
8, But that which bears thorns and briars is worthless, and is near unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

links to

Hebrew 10
26, For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29, Of how much worse punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done insult unto the Spirit of grace?
30, For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs unto me, I will recompense, says the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

You are rejecting the Gift of God's dear son if you continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN and deny the POWER of GOD unto salvation.

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Either all sins were covered (forgiven) at the cross, or none of them were.
Indeed all sin is forgiven for those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not BELIEVEING and FOLLOWING God's WORD then you are an UNBELIEVER. God's WORD tells us that UNBELIEVERS have no part in God's KINGDOM and will be LOST because they choose a life of UNREPEANTANT SIN over the GIFT of GRACE through Faith.

The problem with the NOSAS folks is they look at the amount of sin in a believers life. They're like Goldilocks looking at the three bowls of (sin) porridge. A little shows you're saved (and holier than most), too much shows you're not - but then there's the theoretical "just right" amount.
You seem to be judging all people here that do not agree with you. I certainly do not see it your way neither do I judge you or anyone else. It is God's WORD that says those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of GOD not me or anyone else here (Hebreww 6:4-8; 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-15; James 2:18-20;26 Matt 7:12-23).

People like you can't understand that if we have a single solitary sin attributed to us, we are LOST, LOST, LOST!
God's Word says if you CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN you will be LOST. If you have by the GRACE of God repented and confessed your SINS then you are FORGIVEN. If you ABIDE in Christ you will not sin because you have been cleansed of your SINS through FAITH (Acts 2:38; 3:19; John 15:4; 1 John 3:6;1 John 1:9; 1 John 2:1)

You WILL still sin after conversion - and those sins have ALREADY been covered, forgiven, and thrown as far as the east is from the west. That "oh, you'd better not have any unrepented sin" nonsense is just that - NONSENSE!
Well this is were you are beliving the first LIE from the Garden of Eden. God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of good and evil. If you eat of the fruit you will surely die. The Devil says to EVE, NO you will NOT surely die you will be as God knowing good and evil. Sound familiar to what your teaching doesn't it? (Gen 3:1-24). God's WORD says all those who CONTINUE to live a life of KNOWN UNREPETANT SIN will NOT ENTER God's KINGDOM. Who should we believe God or the Devil?

At the moment of conversion, ALL sins, past, present, and future, were forgiven and FORGOTTEN by God.
Where does it say in God's WORD that your future SINS are forgiven if you are CONTINUING in them and have not REPENTED and CONFESSED them to Jesus?

Can I suggest you read; Heb 6:4-8; 10:26-31; Matt 7:12-23; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-15;
Psa 1:5; Psa 9:8; Ecc 12:14; Mat 12:36; Act 17:31; Rom 2:5-6; 2Co 5:10; 2Co 5:11; Heb 9:27; 2Pe 2:9; 2Pe 3:7; Jud 1:14-15. (too many more) Seems like God disagrees with you.

Now that we are children of God, He will chasten us to correct any errant behavior, even to the point of taking one home before their time, but we can NEVER be condemned and lost for sins we no longer have - including those committed in the future! We can't lose salvation because it's a gift, unearned, unmerited, and will always be so. And you can't offer it back to God because our salvation isn't held by us, it's held by Christ - and He will NOT take it back.
See all of the above. Seems God's Word disagrees with you.

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 John 2
3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3
3,
And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

Revelation 12
17,
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

Revelation 14
12,
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

Romans 1
5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.


Romans 6
1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. 2, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

Romans 3
31,
Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.


WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE IN SIN ONCE THEY RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH?

Hebrews 10
26,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Indeed, those who CONTINUE IN SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
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We can't lose salvation because it's a gift, unearned, unmerited, and will always be so. And you can't offer it back to God because our salvation isn't held by us, it's held by Christ - and He will NOT take it back.
Seems God's Word disagrees with you....

YOU CAN FALL AWAY FROM GOD AND RETURN BACK TO SIN AND BE LOST

2 Peter 2
1,
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2, And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3, And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.
4, For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved to judgment;

5,
And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
6, And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample to those that after should live ungodly;

7,
And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8, For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;

9,
The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust to the day of judgment to be punished:

10,
But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11, Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12, But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13, And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14, Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

15,
WHICH HAVE FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY, AND ARE GONE ASTRAY, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

16,
But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
17, These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18, For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19, While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

20, FOR IT THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE THEN THE BEGGINING.

21, FOR IT HAD BEEN BETTER FOR THEN NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, THAN, AFTER THEY HAVE KNOWN IT, TO TURN FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT DELIEVERED UNTO THEM.


22, But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Yep seems Peter thinks that you can know and follow God and then turn back from God to follow SIN and leave God....

Hebrews 6
4,
FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, AND WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,
5, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME,

6, IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCITY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFREASH, AND PUT HIM TO OPEN SHAME.
7, For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
8, But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

links to....

Hebrews 10
26,
FOR IT WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS,
27, BUT A FEARFUL LOOKING FORWARD FOR OF JUDGEMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.
28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29, OF HOW MUCH MORE SORER PUNISHMENT, SUPPOSE YOU, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WITH WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
30, For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31, IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.
Seems both PAUL and PETER agree together that you can KNOW GOd have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

Isaiah 59
1,
Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2, BUT YOUR INIQUITIES HAVE SEPARATED BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR GOD, AND YOUR SINS HAVE HIS HIS FACE FROM YOU THAT HE WILL NOT HEAR.
3, For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with SIN; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness.

Seems Isaiah agrees with Peter and Paul that SIN can separate us from GOD.

Ezekiel 3
17,
Son of man, I have made you a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18, When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; and you give him not warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand.
19, Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
20, AGAIN, WHEN A RIGHTEOUS MAN DOES TURN FROM HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMIT INIQUITY, AND I LAY A STUMBLING BLOCK BEFORE HIM, HE SHALL DIE IN HIS SIN, AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH HE HAS DONE SHALL NOT BE REMEMBERED; but his blood I will require from your hand.
21, Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul.

Well there we have it Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

Joshua 23
11,
Take good heed therefore to yourselves, that you love the LORD your God.
12, ELSE IF YOU IN ANY WISE GO BACK TO JOIN TO THE REMNANNT OF THESE NATIONS, EVEN THESE THAT REMAIN AMONG YOU AND SHALL MAKE MARRIAGES WITH THEM AND GO IN UNTO THEM AND THEY TO YOU:
13, KNOW FOR A CERTAINTY THAT THE LORD YOUR GOD WILL NO MORE DRIVE OUT THESE NATIONS FROM BEFORE YOU.; but they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you.

Now Joshua is joining Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
Numbers 14
43,
For there the Amalekites and the Canaanites are facing you, and you shall fall by the sword. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TURNED BACK FROM FOLLOWING THE LORD, the Lord will not be with you.”

Now you can also add Moses to Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

James 5
19,
My brothers, IF ANY AMONG YOU WANDERS FROM THE TRUTH AND SOMEONE BRINGS HIM BACK, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Seems also James agrees with Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

Jeremiah 3
8, And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9, And it came to pass through the lightness of her prostitution, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
10, And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to me with her whole heart, but feignedly, said the LORD.
11, And the LORD said to me, The backsliding Israel has justified herself more than treacherous Judah
.
12,
Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, RETURN FAITHLESS ISRAEL, declares the Lord. I will not look on you in anger, for I am merciful, declares the Lord; I will not be angry forever.
13, Only acknowledge your iniquity, that you have transgressed against the LORD your God, and have scattered your ways to the strangers under every green tree, and you have not obeyed my voice, said the LORD.
14, TURN O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, said the LORD; for I am married to you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion.

Looks like we can add Jeremaiah to James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

Joel 2
13,
And rend your hearts and not your garments. RETURN TO THE LORD YOUR GOD, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love; and he relents over disaster.

Well here so far we have Joel, Jeremaiah, James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

There is NO such thing as ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED this is th false Gospel from the father of lies. If you KNOW GOd and turn back to SIN.

SIN is the breaking of ANY of God's Commandments (Rom 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:9-11) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
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Finite man versus infinite God.

If you being evil know how to give good things to your children, then how much more your Heavenly Father (Matthew 7). I think of this one because to me it also shows the contrast between finite and infinite.

You can't put an infinite God into a finite box.

Maybe an earthly father might disown a child and break his promises (it happens), but God never would.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
Numbers 23:19: “God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?"
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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Either all sins were covered (forgiven) at the cross, or none of them were.

The problem with the NOSAS folks is they look at the amount of sin in a believers life. They're like Goldilocks looking at the three bowls of (sin) porridge. A little shows you're saved (and holier than most), too much shows you're not - but then there's the theoretical "just right" amount.

People like you can't understand that if we have a single solitary sin attributed to us, we are LOST, LOST, LOST!

You WILL still sin after conversion - and those sins have ALREADY been covered, forgiven, and thrown as far as the east is from the west. That "oh, you'd better not have any unrepented sin" nonsense is just that - NONSENSE!

At the moment of conversion, ALL sins, past, present, and future, were forgiven and FORGOTTEN by God.

Now that we are children of God, He will chasten us to correct any errant behavior, even to the point of taking one home before their time, but we can NEVER be condemned and lost for sins we no longer have - including those committed in the future!

We can't lose salvation because it's a gift, unearned, unmerited, and will always be so. And you can't offer it back to God because our salvation isn't held by us, it's held by Christ - and He will NOT take it back.
King Saul's kingship was not earned yet it was taken away.
 

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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Because they want God to have control completely :p
I don't agree but you made me laugh! So i gave the post a "like" -- but making sure you know I am not throwing out what the Bible says and beginning to believe in OSAS! :rolleyes:
 
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know1

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Aug 27, 2012
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When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word.
I hate to just pull one thing out of a post, because there are many, but I just wanted to say, the above statement is true.
And since you believe that, one cannot ignore scripture that promises what things soever WE desire, and ALL the promises of God are YEAH AND AMEN. Which means, God doesn't say, no, and He answers our prayers and gives us our heart's desires.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

God "NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word", like that which is written above.
 

preston39

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Dec 18, 2017
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This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.


If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).

Jesus would have to do the following:

Quit as their defense attorney (1 Jn 2:1)
No longer protect or keep them safe (Jn 17:9-12)
Divorce them (Rev 19:7)
Rescind their citizenship of Heaven (Jn 15:16; Eph 2:12-13,19)
Put them back into the world (Jn 17:16)
Blot out their names from the book of life (Rev 3:5)
Allow death and life, angels and rulers, things present and things to come, powers, height, and depth, and anything else in all creation, to separate them from the love of God found in Him (Rom 8:38-39)
No longer be their advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1)
Make them an un-new creation (2 Cor 5:17);
Make them un-near to Him (Eph 2:12-13,19)
Un-bury them and un-baptize them so that they will no longer walk in newness of life(Rom 6:4)
Un-crucify their old nature (Gal 2:20)
Un-adopt them (Rom 8:23)
Un-circumcise them (Col 2:11)
Un-complete them (Col 2:9-10)
Un-author their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-finish their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-hold them from the firm grasp of His hand (John 10:28-29)
Un-buy and refund the payment He made by His blood
Un-predestine them so they can no longer be conformed to His image
Un-sanctify them (John 17:17; Heb 10:14)
Un-deliver them from the domain of darkness (Col 1:13)
Un-transfer them out of His kingdom, where they were once conditionally sanctified daily (Rom 8:28-31; Eph 1:11)
Un-call them (Rom 8:30,9:24,; 1 Cor 1:2,9; Gal 5:13; Eph 1:18)
Un-justify them (Rom 3:24,28,5:9,10:10; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:7)
Un-glorify them (Rom 8:25, 28-31)
Un-cancel all their spiritual debts (Col 2:13-14)
Un-seal them (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:13, 4:30)
Un-wash them (Tutus 3:5)
Un-forgive them of all their sins (1 Cor 6:11)
Un-forget their sins (Heb 10:17)
Un-consider them holy (Eph 1:4)
Un-consider them blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4, 2:8; Rom 8:9,11:6)
Un-buy them (1 Cor: 6:19-20, 7:23-24)
Un-born them (1 Jn 2:29, 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18)
Move out from living within them as the new Holy of Holies (1 John 2:19, 3:6,9; Rom 8:9)
Revoke their position of no longer living in His new nature (Rom 8:9)
Rescind and fail to honor His promise to never leave and forsake them (Heb 13:5)
Go back on and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37).

God, the Holy Spirit, who was given as a guarantee (2 Cor 5:5) would have to do the following:
Cut them out of His Will as co-heirs with Jesus (Rom 8:17).
Un-fill them (becoming un-Born-Again) (Col 2:9-10);
Un-anoint them (1 John 2:27)
Stop and undo His good work begun in them (Phil 1:6, 2:13)
Fail to honor His promise to keep them from stumbling until the end when Jesus comes again (1 Cor 1:8; Jude 1:24-25).

To say that an individual could be separated from the love of God or remove themselves from His firm grasp, and His promise to NEVER leave them, after He bought and paid for them, and they are His possession, as well as His dwelling place, the Holy of Holies, is at the very least, illogical and intellectually incongruous.

When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word. Just saying...
Not good at all...in fact ...bunk!

G-d gives us eternal salvation...it is ours to loose.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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Now are we to assume that because the letter is written to "my little children/brethren" (believers) that those who went out FROM US but were NOT OF US were also believers? Of course not.
Yes. Some forget that the church congregations also have a mix of wheat and tares in them.

"Not of us" because they are of the world (lost), whereas believers have been chosen out of the world. Them leaving is evidence they were always lost. And there's no such thing as found and then lost :)

John 15:18-19: “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you"
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Yes. Some forget that the church congregations also have a mix of wheat and tares in them.

"Not of us" because they are of the world (lost), whereas believers have been chosen out of the world. Them leaving is evidence they were always lost. And there's no such thing as found and then lost :)

John 15:18-19: “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you"
How do you know that your not one of the lost you speak about? Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. You should not follow your friends they may lead you into a ditch.

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; 3:20; James 2:8-12). Those wos CONTINUE IN SIN do not KNOW him who calls them in LOVE to LOVE another.

Many will come to him on that day saying; Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work SIN (iniquity) (Matthew 7:21-23)

They had a form of Godliness but denied God's power of salvation from SIN (1 Tim 3:1-5) and did not KNOW him

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 John 2
3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3
3,
And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.


WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

Revelation 12
17,
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

Revelation 14
12,
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.


WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

Romans 1
5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.


Romans 6
1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. 2, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

Romans 3
31,
Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.


WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE IN SIN ONCE THEY RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH?

Hebrews 10
26,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Indeed, those who CONTINUE IN SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Why do some "want" Salvation to be loseable so strongly?
Because then they can TAKE CREDIT (which stems from PRIDE) for pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps and keeping themselves saved. Type 2 works salvation. :rolleyes:
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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I cannot answer for others but I know God has control as long as I look to Him. He gave man a choice in the beginning and as far as I know has not taken it away.
If Gods control is dependent upon you then God is not in control but you are in control.

Salvation requires submission to God through Christ. Submission means yielding all to Christ. No more self but total dependence upon Christ.

1 Cor 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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those who back away from God through unbelief would be called......... unbelievers. not former true believers who drew back, but people who professed to believe, but did not really do so.
Amen!

Drawing back to perdition would be a manifestation of unbelief. If someone has received the "knowledge" of the truth (even though there is not yet a heart submission to the truth) and the person is still in the process of considering the truth (still at a crossroad), but then decides to draw back to perdition instead of believing to the saving of the soul (those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition) this person still turned away and departed from God/drew back to perdition.

In Jude 1:5, we see that God delivered His people out of Egypt (Hebrews/Israelites) but later destroyed those who did not believe (not later stopped believing). So they were NOT ALL saved.

God revealed Himself to these Hebrews and they were chosen as His people in the OT, yet that still did not stop them all from turning away from Him. You can't turn away from God if you have not yet encountered God or had the chance to consider the truth, but that does not mean that you have to fully accept the truth before you can turn away from it. Once you have received the knowledge of the truth, you are at a crossroad to either submit to the truth or reject the truth.

If I decide to walk across the Brooklyn bridge and I walk right up to the bridge and just before I take my first step onto the bridge, instead turn and walk away from it, does that mean I didn't turn away and depart from the bridge just because I wasn't actually on the bridge? Of course not.