Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

apostolic862004 · Mar 6, 2018

Baptism is absolutely essential to salvation! Let's follow a pattern of biblical logic:

You must obey the gospel to be saved - 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
The way we obey the gospel is by:
- Repenting (dying) - Acts 2:38, Ezekiel 18:20-22
- Being Baptized (burial) - Acts 2:38, Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12, John 3:5
- Receiving the Holy Ghost (resurrection) - Acts 2:38, John 3:5, Romans 8:9-11

Also, 1 Peter 3:20-21 tells us that baptism does now save us. Jesus said in John 3:5 that you cannot get into the kingdom of heaven unless you are born of the WATER and the Spirit.

You cannot be saved unless you obey the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Many want to claim that baptism is works. I find it funny that anytime you tell the people that you are simply OBEYING what Jesus said, they tell you that if you OBEY him, you are trying to save yourself. Well, Peter did tell them in Acts 2:40 to "Save yourselves from this untoward generation!" How are you gonna do that? By obeying the words of Jesus Christ.

7seasrekeyed · Mar 6, 2018

apostolic862004 said:

water immersion is not necessary for salvation

only one thing is necessary and that is the blood of Christ that cleanses us from ALL sin

baptism is an outward demonstration of our inward faith and yes, it is in obedience to the word...but it does not save us and it is not a work

are you apostolic as your name indicates?

notuptome · Mar 6, 2018

DJ2 said:

Will you ever hear the answer from scripture? Water baptism does not and can not save. Holy Spirit baptism saves by converting the soul dead in sin to alive in Christ.

Why do you resist the gospel? Why do you deny the power of Christ to save?

You are not going to get the answer you want. Many of the people here will not teach doctrine that tickles the ears but will stand for sound doctrine. Doctrine that demands man take responsibility for his sin and find in Christ the only remedy for his sin. The soul that sins dies and only the Holy Spirit can breathe new life into that soul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

apostolic862004 · Mar 6, 2018

Yes I am Apostolic. I am old time Pentecost, not the new school ones.

I agree with you that the blood of Jesus Christ is what cleanses us from sin. So tell me please, how does one get the blood of Jesus Christ applied to their lives. And please give scripture to support your claim. Surely you do not believe that the moment Jesus died on the cross, the blood was applied to everyone's life? Because that would mean everyone is already saved.

I also believe that baptism is a visible profession of your faith, but I do not believe that's ALL that baptism is. I have given plenty of scripture in my previous post to show that baptism is so much more than that.

apostolic862004 · Mar 6, 2018

[QUOTE Water baptism does not and can not save. ][/QUOTE]

Only one scripture need here to prove this statement false:

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

notuptome · Mar 6, 2018

apostolic862004 said:

Here you are laboring under a false understanding of the scripture. Peter is clearly illustrating the figurative value of water baptism. The phrase "like figure" demonstrates to the reader that it is an illustration not an factor in salvation. God protected Noah from the water God did not save Noah by the water.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Titus makes it evident that the Holy Spirit is the means by which we are quickened in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

eternally-gratefull · Mar 6, 2018

DJ2 said:

eternally-gratefull said:

Does any bible? Yes, the one written By God.

You do not take the Greek text and make it say something it does not actually say just because some interpreters said it says something else.

apostolic862004 · Mar 6, 2018

Roger, if you will read that scripture in its context, Peter was talking about the flood. And he said in verse 20 that Noah and his family were SAVED BY WATER. And then he compares our baptism to them being saved by water and says, (i'm paraphrasing) Just like (like figure) Noah and his family were saved by water, we also saved BY BAPTISM (which happens in water.) This is very clearly what he is saying.

I agree with you that we are quickened or made alive by the spirit. You see, i don't believe that baptism alone is what saves you. I do believe that baptism is part of the process of salvation and that you cannot be saved without being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. You cannot be saved without repenting either. And you cannot be saved without receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost either. All of these are essential to salvation. Repentance means you stop living a life of sin. Baptism is where you are buried with Christ, and his blood is applied to your life to remit all of your sins. Receiving his Spirit (the Holy Ghost) is where you are resurrected to live a new life, a life different than the one you were living before you repented. So it's not just baptism that saves us.

It's just like a natural baby being born. There is a process that the child must go through in order to come to full birth. This is why Jesus said you must be born again. He compares salvation to a birth. If you don't complete the process, you will be still born. Baptism is a part of the process of the new birth.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 6, 2018

apostolic862004 said:

Again?

1. Acts 2 does not say water baptism grants remission of sin, It says to get baptized because you have received remission of sin
2. Rom 6 is holy spirit baptism. We are baptized INTO the death of Christ, and INTO the burial of christ, Not in water
3. rom 8: 9-11 where is baptism?
4. 1 peter 3 says baptism is another type (symbol) just like the waters of the flood (it does not remove sin from the flesh) it is the answer of a good conscious to God.
5 John 3, No mention of baptism, not in context, and not even insinuated
6. Col 2: 12. The SPIRITUAL baptism, the act of God circumcising us spiritually, where we are cleansed.

why do people want to add a work of man to the work of God?? Do you really think God will take that and say, Ok you earned the right to receive remission of sin because of your work. If that is how easy it is, where do I sign up?

eternally-gratefull · Mar 6, 2018

apostolic862004 said:

So people went to heaven because they were on the ark? where do I sign up to get on the ark so I can go to heaven?

Not putting away the filth of the flesh. Flesh being our old sin nature or our bodies. Filth being sin, which the penalty of is death.

preston39 · Mar 6, 2018

7seasrekeyed said:

water immersion is not necessary for salvation

Wrong...just wrong!

only one thing is necessary and that is the blood of Christ that cleanses us from ALL sin

Wrong.....you are mixing G-d's plan; Christs' sacrifice on the cross is for ....forgiveness. But, the process by which we comply with the requirements includes baptism.

baptism is an outward demonstration of our inward faith and yes, it is in obedience to the word...but it does not save us and it is not a work

Wrong...just wrong.

are you apostolic as your name indicates?

7...,

If you wish to follow The Bible.....baptism is required.

apostolic862004 · Mar 6, 2018

1.) You can't be serious. In point number one, you blatantly contradict Peter. He said Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ, FOR the remission of sins. Now you are trying to tell us that he didn't actually say that?!?!

2.) In point number 2, again you blatantly contradict what is written so you can establish your doctrine. He said we are buried with him by baptism. Paul says it again in Colossians 2:12. Please tell me how we are buried with him by being baptized in the Spirit. The bible always refers to the baptism of the Spirit as being a quickening, not a burial. He was talking about water baptism in both cases.

3.) There is no mention of baptism here. I used this scripture setting to illustrate the need for the Holy Ghost. If you don't have the Spirit of Christ (Holy Ghost) you do not belong to him. Therefore you will not be saved. Please re-read my previous post to understand why i was making that point.

4.) I agree. He is comparing our modern day baptism to Noah and the flood. So please tell me, if you don't get baptized, how are you participating in this analogy. What relevance does this scripture setting have in your life if you don't get baptized?

5.) Another blatant contradiction of the scripture. Jesus clearly said to be born of the WATER and of the Spirit. Please tell me what "water" he was talking about. And don't give me that line about the water in your mothers womb because Jesus was equating being born again with water and spirit. Not the natural birth, but the spiritual birth.

6.) Again, the bible never refers to Spirit baptism as burial. It's always a quickening. (See Rom 8:11)

Would you please tell me when someone receives remission of their sins since you don't believe it happens in water baptism?

Magenta · Mar 6, 2018

apostolic862004 said:

When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." Luke 5:20

^^ The words of Jesus

apostolic862004 · Mar 6, 2018

No, they did not go to heaven because they were on the ark. However they were saved because they were on the ark. What were they saved from? Drowning. And Paul said "the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us." He was saying just like the ark saved Noah and his family, we are saved from hell by baptism. Again, i don't believe baptism alone is what saves us, but it is part of the process of salvation and you cannot be saved without baptism. This is so clear in scripture.

Also, if baptism is not required, why did Jesus command his disciples to go into all the world and do it? And why did the Apostles actually obey him and do it? And why is it in Acts 2, Acts 8, Acts 10, Acts 19, and all these other places that the Apostles make such a big deal about baptism. Why did Peter command Cornelius's house in Acts 10:44-48 to be baptized after they had received the Holy Ghost if it's not necessary. Don't you think Peter was out of order to make them be baptized since they really didn't have to? And don't you think Paul was out of order in Acts 19:1-4 when he made a big deal about those believers needing to be re-baptized?

All of scripture stands against what you are teaching. Baptism in water is essential to salvation.

Jabberjaw · Mar 6, 2018

Magenta said:

We do when we're baptized:

Romans 6:4 NKJV
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Magenta · Mar 6, 2018

Jabberjaw said:

Please show me the holes in your hands and side, as Jesus did for Thomas.

apostolic862004 · Mar 6, 2018

Thank you for the example of someone having their sins forgiven, but you didn't answer my question. At what point is someones sins forgiven. I don't want to misrepresent or misinterpret what you are trying to say with this scripture. Are you saying that a man's sins are forgiven at the point when Jesus tells him that his sins are forgiven?

Jabberjaw · Mar 6, 2018

Magenta said:

Who is the "we" in the following verse? Because this verse doesn't align well with your theology do we discard it?

Romans 6:4 NKJV
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 6, 2018

apostolic862004 said:

No he did not, he said

repent ye (2nd person plural)
ye shall receive (2nd person plural)
gift of holy spirit (modifying phrase)

every one of you (3rd person SINGULAR)
be baptized (3rd person singular
for the remission of sin. (modifying phrase)

the word for can be translated
1. I went to the store for (in order to obtain) a snack
2. I went to the store for (on behalf of) my wife (she needed something)
3. I went to the store for (on account of, or because I was) my hunger
4. I went to the store for (in respect to) my medicine, which was ready to be picked up.

So you can see, the English text is quite lacking in not only telling us specifically why we are baptized (do we do it in order to obtain remission, or on account of the fact we had already received remission of sin.

The fact Peter told all people to repent, and if they did they would receive the gift of the HS. It is an easy flow to understand, that the people (singular) he told to be baptised already had the gift of the HS, meaning they had already received remission of sin.

please stop taking things out of context. You have to look at the whole saying, not just pick a verse out of context.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[SUP][c][/SUP] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

The point, we are circumcised with the circumcision MADE WITHOUT HANDS.
How is this done, he answers this

[SUP]12[/SUP]buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

1. It is how we are circumcised with the circumcision made wihtout hands so IT CAN NOT BE WATER BAPTISM, done by the hands of men
2. It says it was done IN THE WORKING OF GOD (ie by the hands of God) this is SPIRIT BAPTISM, done by God, not water baptism.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, [SUP]14 [/SUP]having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Water baptism can not do the above. any more than physical circumcision wiped the penalty of the law away from jews who had that done.

and how do we get the HS? Peter said repent. thank you.

I did get water baptised. Not to get saved, but BECAUSE I was saved, I already knew the symbolism of what water baptism represented, I did it to share wiht others so they could see to.

Jesus never said the word baptism, He said in john 3: 16 how we are born again, By faith in his only begotten son, I would think if baptism was so important, Jesus would nto have left that fact out.

Titus 3: 5, NOT MY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE (water baptism is a work of righteousness) But BY HIS MERCY HE SAVED US by the WASHING (water) and RENEWING (new birth) of the HS (the HOLY SPIRIT DOES THE WORK not some pastor immersing you in water.

Actually it does, in Romans 6, where it says we are immersed in his death and burial (again no water mentioned) and also in Titus 3: 5 (see above)

I think Jesus told us when he mentioned the tax collector who called out on the name of the lord. and he went home justified. You receive remission of sin (the gift) when you say Yes God, I want what you are offering, because I have repented

in other words, When Jesus accepts your faith, (john 3: 16) after we ask for it (john 4) as real living faith, not just mere belief, He gives you his salvation, eternal life, and all that comes with it

eternally-gratefull · Mar 6, 2018

apostolic862004 said:

No, they did not go to heaven because they were on the ark. However they were saved because they were on the ark. What were they saved from? Drowning. And Paul said "the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us." He was saying just like the ark saved Noah and his family, we are saved from hell by baptism. Again, i don't believe baptism alone is what saves us, but it is part of the process of salvation and you cannot be saved without baptism. This is so clear in scripture.

Also, if baptism is not required, why did Jesus command his disciples to go into all the world and do it? And why did the Apostles actually obey him and do it? And why is it in Acts 2, Acts 8, Acts 10, Acts 19, and all these other places that the Apostles make such a big deal about baptism. Why did Peter command Cornelius's house in Acts 10:44-48 to be baptized after they had received the Holy Ghost if it's not necessary. Don't you think Peter was out of order to make them be baptized since they really didn't have to? And don't you think Paul was out of order in Acts 19:1-4 when he made a big deal about those believers needing to be re-baptized?

All of scripture stands against what you are teaching. Baptism in water is essential to salvation.

Yep. they were saved from drowning, Not eternally. Water baptism will not save anyone eternally. It does not remove the filth of the flesh.

Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

Banned

7seasrekeyed

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Banned

eternally-gratefull

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest