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Ariel82
Guest
So far we have covered scriptures about God giving the Sabbath commandment to the Israelites in connection with Manna.
We touched briefly on the difference between the laws given on Mount Sinai and the New Covenant laws given to us by Jesus on the Sermon of the Mount.
We talked about the year of Jubilee and the year long Sabbath that the Israelites were to have every seven years after entering the promised land (which they neglected and did not keep).
Some people want to focus on the weekly Sabbath (which they and the Pharisees kept by letter and not Spirit because they both believe it's about not working.)
However we know that Jesus worked on the Sabbath and the priests profane the Sabbath and were held blameless.
I thought it might be educational if we examined how the priests worked and PROFANED the Sabbath in the old testament.
Then look and see how we as God's priests of the New Covenant should work.
Anyone else interested?
I haven't really studied it in depth but am trusting that God will lead us and teach us what He wants from studying His words.
We would have to study the book of Leviticus which is a hard study for me.
We touched briefly on the difference between the laws given on Mount Sinai and the New Covenant laws given to us by Jesus on the Sermon of the Mount.
We talked about the year of Jubilee and the year long Sabbath that the Israelites were to have every seven years after entering the promised land (which they neglected and did not keep).
Some people want to focus on the weekly Sabbath (which they and the Pharisees kept by letter and not Spirit because they both believe it's about not working.)
However we know that Jesus worked on the Sabbath and the priests profane the Sabbath and were held blameless.
I thought it might be educational if we examined how the priests worked and PROFANED the Sabbath in the old testament.
Then look and see how we as God's priests of the New Covenant should work.
Anyone else interested?
I haven't really studied it in depth but am trusting that God will lead us and teach us what He wants from studying His words.
We would have to study the book of Leviticus which is a hard study for me.
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Consider for a moment what Christ was teaching at that time. It was said that if someone injures you to injure them back, equal measure (i.e. get justice). But Christ now says that if someone injures you to not injure them back but to forgive them (i.e. have mercy). It's a rule involving Mercy over Judgment between you and a neighbor, just like you highlighted in an earlier post on this thread...but that doesn't give precedent for there also to be a change in the ruling over Sabbath.
Obeying the Sabbath isn't a matter of how to treat one's neighbor once they sin against you. It's a slightly difference topic.
Agreed. But why? We know why. We've read about it and know it as a fact...but we often mistakenly forget about it when discussing topics like these. It's not because Christ changed the law of the Sabbath here. He worked/healed on the day, and taught that we are to do God's work (i.e. good) on that day, because he has made believers a nation of *priest*.
Consider all of scripture with regard to the Sabbath and notice that only priests of God were completely allowed - and in fact expected - to work their priestly duties on the Sabbath and it wasn't counted as sin.
The Levitical priests (of the order of Aaron) ministered on behalf of God on the Sabbath day: offering sacrifices, eating meals offered to God, healing, teaching, etc. They worked the works of God on that day.
The problem was that during Christ's ministry the pharisees didn't recognize that Christ was High Priest (of the order of Melchizedek or any order since he was from the tribe of Judah and not Levi), who then ordained his apostles as priests under him to work the works of God also. So when we read it as an outsider the only conclusion we can draw is that "the Jews must've been trying to keep to the OT laws while Christ was getting rid of those laws".
But there's a nuance.
As priests of the order of Melchizedek, believers fulfill (i.e. uphold) the Sabbath law as long as they do God's work or rest, but not their own work.
Well...I really get excited when I see the spirit of the law. Like...the Sabbath rest was to cease from your labors and focus on God only and the new and lifegiving way of the Spirit is to cease from our labors of trying to keep the sabbath law and resting in Him, our Sabbath rest.
We can fail to keep the true Sabbath in spirit whenever we take back up the labor instead of trusting Him to finish the work He began.
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Ariel82
Guest
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It is still in the Sermon on the mount..the Sabbath isn't about not working...it's about Resting in the Peace of God and seeking first His kingdom....not working for your food or clothes but for God's glory.
That is the spiritual purpose behind the Sabbath and Jesus wants us to set our mind to spiritual and not just the letter of the law.
It is still in the Sermon on the mount..the Sabbath isn't about not working...it's about Resting in the Peace of God and seeking first His kingdom....not working for your food or clothes but for God's glory.
That is the spiritual purpose behind the Sabbath and Jesus wants us to set our mind to spiritual and not just the letter of the law.
This isn't something we do very easily, walking in the Spirit. But we become more and more accustomed to it and walk for longer and longer periods of time without breaking His law.
But if one rests then they aren't working. And if they're working they aren't resting. Resting and working are opposite of each other.
Would you say that someone can learn how to rest in the Peace of God without ever resting on the Sabbath?
I think you are asking, is it possible for the inside of the cup to be clean and the outside of the cup dirty?
Yeah I read my question and thought I may have been unclear...sorry about that.
What's I'm asking is:
Considering the law is our schoolmaster that leads one to Christ; if a brand new believer - converted from the world and into the family of God - is encouraged to "rest in the peace of God", how do they learn how to do that if they never practice obeying the Sabbath day even once after conversion, knowing that's the spiritual purpose behind the Sabbath?
If people are ceasing from the works of the flesh while they are physically working, then their souls are resting in Christ's completed work.
Come to me, all [of you] who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke on you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke [is] easy to carry and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30
A yoke easy to bear compared to
But some of those who had believed from the party of the Pharisees stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to command [them] to observe the law of Moses!” Acts 15:5
[But Peter said to the pharisees,] why are you putting God to the test [by] placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? Acts 15:10
[But Peter said to the pharisees,] why are you putting God to the test [by] placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? Acts 15:10
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Ariel82
Guest
It's really. About what is our focus on?
Keeping from breaking laws and being punished (selfish focus)
Or seeking Goda kingdom by looking for ways to share God's love and truth with others? (others focused and I would say God focused)
When we start looking at ourselves and our lives...,,worrying if a God loves us and if we are saved...and instaed trust God when He says He loves us...trust God to not let us starve if we don't worry about working to feed ourselves and instead work as if anything we are asked to do, we do for God....
Then we see God's kingdom unfold before us.
God wants a holy priesthood with bodies and temples dedicated to Him EVERY DAY...not just once a week.
Isn't the physical body "flesh and blood and bone"?
Those passages are about circumcision not about the sabbath. In fact, remember this was the final judgment on the matter.
Acts 15:19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read (post-Pentecost) in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
...so converts were going to their "church" every sabbath to listen to the scriptures. And interestingly enough the discussion the early apostles were having in Acts 15 had to do with new converts. So even more so; how does a new convert today learn how to truly rest in Christ, if the very spiritual purpose of the Sabbath is to show them how (as the schoolmaster) but they've never practiced it?
We all understand that everyone who enters into the family of God are first considered babes, and we all must grow spiritually.
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Ariel82
Guest
Jesus told us "Blessed are the pure at heart for they shall see God"
Is your heart pure?
Do you see God when you feed the homeless? When you visit the widows of orphans? Do you see God I'm the faces of the people you serve?
I see God in the laughter of the children. I see God in the songs of the choir. I see God when the bride wiped the tears from her groom's face while he said his vows yesterday. I saw God in the love we all share by His Holy spirit.
Is your heart pure?
Do you see God when you feed the homeless? When you visit the widows of orphans? Do you see God I'm the faces of the people you serve?
I see God in the laughter of the children. I see God in the songs of the choir. I see God when the bride wiped the tears from her groom's face while he said his vows yesterday. I saw God in the love we all share by His Holy spirit.
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Ariel82
Guest
Acts 15
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
*****
Why didn't the Apostles say "yes they must be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses" or even "they don't have to be circumcised but must keep the Law of Moses"?
Because the Apostles knew that the Old Covenant was being done away with...obsolete, the Law of Sin and death.
Why do you keep trying to place people back in bondage to the Law given at Sinai?
Jesus mediated a better covenant.
Perhaps you should learn of it and it's laws.
Yes the Law of Moses was taught to Jews WHO REJECTED JESUS every Sabbath.
People still are rejecting Jesus teachibgs.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
*****
Why didn't the Apostles say "yes they must be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses" or even "they don't have to be circumcised but must keep the Law of Moses"?
Because the Apostles knew that the Old Covenant was being done away with...obsolete, the Law of Sin and death.
Why do you keep trying to place people back in bondage to the Law given at Sinai?
Jesus mediated a better covenant.
Perhaps you should learn of it and it's laws.
Yes the Law of Moses was taught to Jews WHO REJECTED JESUS every Sabbath.
People still are rejecting Jesus teachibgs.
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Ariel82
Guest
The Holy spirit teaches His kids and leads them to a Body that disciples them and allows them to grow and learn to use the spiritual gifts God gives them.
It took Paul 3 years before God sent him on missionary work.
It took Paul 3 years before God sent him on missionary work.
Notice how Jesus reveals the new covenant sabbath
Under the old covenant the purpose of the weekly sabbath was to know GOD. They physically rested to know GOD.
But those under the new covenant know GOD to rest their souls. As lord of the sabbath, Jesus gives this rest to whomever he chooses.
Under the old covenant the purpose of the weekly sabbath was to know GOD. They physically rested to know GOD.
Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know, for I the LORD am making them holy. Ezekiel 20:12
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth. Psalms 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth. Psalms 46:10
But those under the new covenant know GOD to rest their souls. As lord of the sabbath, Jesus gives this rest to whomever he chooses.
All [things] have been given to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wants to reveal him. Come to me, all [of you] who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke on you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke [is] easy to carry and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:27-30
The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.” Matthew 12:8
The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.” Matthew 12:8
I don't want to sidetrack your thread since it's about the Sabbath but isn't that exactly what the apostles said in Acts 15:19-21? The matter being discussed was whether converts were required to be circumcised and then the ruling was "let's not make it hard on folks turning to God, instead have them do these things...because the law is preached every Sabbath."
There was nothing said about abolishing anything or about covenants at this time. Wasn't it about not making it hard on new converts who just turned to God but who didn't grow up living the ways of God? The connotation being that since the law is preached every Sabbath they'll learn the rest of the ways of God as they grow in faith (which comes by hearing it preached every Sabbath)?
I'm not trying to place people back in bondage...God forbid. But a covenant isn't the law(s) it relates to right? Jeremiah 31:31-34 says that the new covenant is the writing of God's laws on the inside of a person - enforced by the blood of Christ - whereas the old covenant was when those laws were written on tables on stone outside of a person - enforced by the blood of animals - where they were eventually broken.
And Ezekiel 36:27 says - And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
...So I'm just drawing attention to the question of the Sabbath as taught to gentile converts in the first century.
I still don't understand how you can believe that the Pharisees, who had taught a false religion for centuries, who had not taught, as did Zechariahs, the Commandment of God, rather, taught for doctrines the "Commandments of men" had all the sudden started being faithful to God and all the sudden started preaching the true "Law of Moses" instead of the "burden" they had placed on the necks (shoulders) of the people for centuries.
I don't understand how you have determined that all the sudden the Pharisees were teaching what Moses taught, given that Jesus specifically preached, to His Apostles, that they were not.
OK I'm with you with what you wrote, and I like your passage. If I simplified the passage would you agree it says, "Take my yoke (burden) and learn from me and you will find rest for your souls?"
In other words:
rest = taking Christ's burden and learning from him
I guess that's the crux of the matter that I'm getting at with regard to the Sabbath. Upon conversion, is a brand new convert automatically at rest in Christ even if they haven't yet learn by taking his yoke and following his example of the Sabbath: either from the example he gave through Ancient Israel in the OT, or his actions on the Sabbath during his ministry or the instructions given from his Apostles in Acts 15?
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