Are women allowed to Preach?

[Stunnedbygrace]

Fine then, who exactly of God's scholars are more inspired by God than Paul was himself ? Who exactly is it that knows for a fact that Paul made a mistake of words ?

You misunderstand. Paul wrote it in Greek. He did not have a mistake in his words. It was the men who translated Pauls words from greek to English who sometimes could have translated better.

 

[loyaldisciple]

If it has nothing to do with it, why did YOU ask the question, "how can a woman be a minister, when God said she was not to even speak in the church?"

YOU are the one who asked that question. Why did YOU ask the question if it had "nothing to do with it?"



There were also many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him, 56among whom were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph and the mother of the sons of Zebedee. Matthew 27:55-56

Are you serious ? I said what you said had nothing to do with it. I never contradicted anything that I said. My question was designed to get you to realize one could not perform any sermon without speaking.

 

[Dino246]

It was Paul that said it, but only after God gave him authority to say it. This is what you fail to understand. Paul's word is the word of God because God would never command any person to lie.

Regarding the part in bold, please read 1 Kings chapter 22, particularly verses 19 to 23.

 

[loyaldisciple]

You misunderstand. Paul wrote it in Greek. He did not have a mistake in his words. It was the men who translated Pauls words from greek to English who sometimes could have translated better.

So you also are now saying the text in the KJV is incorrect. I strongly suggest you begin listening to different teachers as someone has clearly been deceiving you with babble.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You are extremely difficult to communicate with...

 

[loyaldisciple]

Regarding the part in bold, please read 1 Kings chapter 22, particularly verses 19 to 23.

Fine, but that man was not the man God directed to give the order unto the church. So, it has no relevance unto what Paul said.

 

[Dino246]

That is precisely what Angela said in her second sentence. She said the KJV Bible was incorrect in it's translation.

Respectfully, there is another thread where you are welcome to debate the accuracy of the KJV. Angela stated that the KJV and subsequent versions were incorrect. Let's keep the discussion focused on females as preachers here.

 

[loyaldisciple]

You are extremely difficult to communicate with...

Likewise ...

 

[proverbs35]

Are you serious ? I said what you said had nothing to do with it. I never contradicted anything that I said. My question was designed to get you to realize one could not perform any sermon without speaking.

Here's what you asked,

how can a woman be a minister, when God said she was not to even speak in the church ?

Here's the verse I posted:

There were also many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him, 56among whom were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
Matthew 27:55-57

Women ministered to Jesus. That's a fact, and I'm absolutely serious about it. It's a serious matter.

 

[AuntieAnt]

Happy Easter, everyone! Christ is risen! Hallelujah! \/

[video=youtube;DKxD8WnSYqQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKxD8WnSYqQ[/video]

 

[loyaldisciple]

Respectfully, there is another thread where you are welcome to debate the accuracy of the KJV. Angela stated that the KJV and subsequent versions were incorrect. Let's keep the discussion focused on females as preachers here.

Are you serious ? Whether the scripture in the KJV is correct or not IS at the head of that discussion.

 

[Dino246]

Are you serious ? Whether the scripture in the KJV is correct or not IS at the head of that discussion.

Yes I am serious. Save the KJV-only discussion for the other thread.

 

[jaybird88]

It was Paul that said it, but only after God gave him authority to say it. This is what you fail to understand. Paul's word is the word of God because God would never command any person to lie.

so this is the Most High Himself speaking? why the change in how He speaks through His prophets? and why does Paul refer to himself not permetting women to speak when, according to you, its the Almighty?

not sure its me that fails to see.

 

[Mem]

Looking into the Hebraic background of their role on the Ark of the Covenant, Dr. Rabbi Zev Farber discusses various traditional explanations including Rav Katina's interpretation as a "midrashic connection between the phrase 'spreading wings' used by Exodus to describe the cherubs and the identical phrase Ezek. 16:8 and Ruth 3:9 for a man spreading his cloak over a woman." {as cited in "Chazal's Explanation," B., para. 2) along with R. Bahya ben Asher and R. Mosche Alschic's modified version of Katina's statement suggesting "that one was male and one was female." (as cited in "Meforshim," para. 1) with Aslchic adding this symbolism is "related to the mitzvah to procreate" (Ibid.).

https://thetorah.com/the-cherubim/

This thought agrees with Dino246's observation of 1 Cor 11:3 regarding the phrase 'the head of woman is man.' saying, "Because the article is present, there are only two possible contexts: marriage and parenthood." (#377)

 

[melita916]

... so... we’re still at it?

I decree no debates on Easter Sunday! Hehe

 

[loyaldisciple]

Here's what you asked,


Here's the verse I posted:

There were also many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him, 56among whom were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
Matthew 27:55-57

Women ministered to Jesus. That's a fact, and I'm absolutely serious about it. It's a serious matter.

Even if women did minister to Jesus, that has nothing to do with a woman preaching "within" a church ... And who do you think was wiser ? Do you actually believe women were wiser than JESUS ?

 

[loyaldisciple]

Yes I am serious. Save the KJV-only discussion for the other thread.

It is not a KJV only discussion, when one takes the very KJV verse used to prove women are not to preach in the church and then states that it is written wrongly. She is attempting to prove an invalid point here by stating the KJV is false. If you wish to leave KJV Bible discussion elsewhere then you should be telling that to Angela, as she was the one who introduced it here.

 

[loyaldisciple]

so this is the Most High Himself speaking? why the change in how He speaks through His prophets? and why does Paul refer to himself not permetting women to speak when, according to you, its the Almighty?

not sure its me that fails to see.

If God inspires you to say something, then it is not you doing the speaking. It is He doing the speaking through you.

 

[loyaldisciple]

... so... we’re still at it?

I decree no debates on Easter Sunday! Hehe

I will take you up on that one. Night ladies. Have a good Easter.

 

[jaybird88]

Jaybird, God did say this! But, he said it in Greek, to a certain audience of one (Timothy) regarding a local situation. The KJV and all subsequent versions have missed translating “authentein” correctly.

It is a word that only appears once in the Bible. It is an infinitive - so “to ...... “ not “exercise authority over” which is a noun, a verb and a preposition. And it is NOT exousia, which is the noun that really means “authority.” The one that Paul uses over and over to mean “authority.” The word found 102 times in the NT.

So, why did Paul use authentein, instead of exousia? Because he didn’t want to say, “exercise authority over” he wanted it to say, “to domineer” which is what the priestesses of Ephesus were doing.

And pairing “not teach” with “remain quiet” is actuallty how the rabbinical students were instructed to learn. And when they became rabbis, then they were allowed to teach. And so were women, as we have many examples of women teaching in the NT.

Paul is true, and the Bible is true! It hasn’t been translated properly! We won’t even get into the fact that 2 disputed verses don’t make a doctrine. (Disputed because of translational issues, and things we don’t understand, not because the verses are not true, in the context they were written!)

possibly, im not the final authority. but IMO Paul does not speak the same as one of the prophets that speak for the Most High. and it also sounds like he is speaking of specific community rules. and if there is a command that women are not allowed to teach, or even speak at temple, where is this command? we should be able to verify this command in scripture just the same as the berean Jews did with everything that Paul taught, but there is no command and Paul is not inventing new scripture.