Why O.T. Sacrifices At All?

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Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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48
#62
Quote Originally Posted by Budman View Post
If the blood of bulls and goats could never remove sins, how were people saved before/apart from, Christ?


For the sake of argument, lets say a Jewish person did something outside of the Law which would be a SIN. Keep in mind that some SINs carried the death Penalty. To atone for His sin, this man took a Bull or lamb to the altar and the priest prepared it to be sacrificed for him. Once the sacrifice happened, that particular sin was atoned for and He was back in a good relationship (fellowship) with GOD.


In the Rich MAN and Lazarus; we find that Lazarus was a beggar whose ability to care for himself was so far removed, that the dogs of the street had to lick his wounds. Did the Richman offer him a bed , food and shelter....Of course not,,,,, so when they died. the Rich man Landed up in HELL because His works were not according to the LAW and He had not sacrificed an animal to atone for it. The Bible then tells us that Angels carried Lazarus to Abram's Bosom (Later to become known as paradise according to Jesus). Was it the Grace of GOD or was it the LAW? Of course it was by the Grace of GOD...but more importantly, the Beggar had no sins against the LAW and thus was SAVED FROM HELL and taken to Paradise... Later ON:

Jesus, after his three day and three nights in the earth, would remove Paradise and all of its inhabitants and relocate them to Heaven. Do you see the plan God had for mostly Jewish people during this time.

To get the Grace of Jesus Christ, we gentiles and Jews alike, have to simply believe (have faith with our hearts) that HE (Jesus) Died, shedding His Blood for the WORLD'S Sins, was Buried and was resurrected according to scripture. 1 Cor 15:1-4.

Here there is nothing about the LAW or how to live as the Beggar had done. Although once you truly accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you will receive the Holy Spirit who will immediately start teaching, protecting and guiding you for the good. Good WORKS and a walking the straight and narrow life will come as a result of your faith in Jesus Christ.


Blade



 
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Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
338
83
#63
"For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4)

That means they are not forgiven. If their sins are not taken away, they are lost.

Period.

Animal sacrifice never removed sin, it just allowed for sin to be forgiven; "The priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him." (Leviticus 4:31). Debts don't just disappear because they've been forgiven, someone has got to pay (an eye for an eye). Christ removed the offense, our sins are literally blotted out, his sacrifice was for the remission of sin, which means the cancellation/elimination of a debt... he paid the price.

In other words, someone could dent your car and you could forgive them, but the fact is, your car is still dented and someone has got to pay to fix it. Someone steps on your toe, you forgive them, but your toe still hurts, forgiving them doesn't erase the pain in your toe. God forgives us when we repent, God forgives us our trespasses when we forgive those who trespass against us, but nevertheless "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).

Animal sacrifice was for the forgiveness of sin, Christ sacrifice removed sin.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
3,573
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#64
When we read the OT, we can see the different types of Christ throughout. These pictures and types are recognizable only in the light of the revelation of the NT obscured prior to that time. In fact, the Bible teaches that the Jews read the OT with spiritual blinders on. They had a veil over their minds preventing their seeing the very truths we hold so dear.

2 Corinthians
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

The veil is only removed in Christ after the cross.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
In the OT times a man had his sins forgiven through the Levitical system God set up for the nation of Israel. Their sins were forgiven but not forgotten. Their sins were forgiven but not cleared.

Exodus 34
6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Under the NT, man's sins are forgiven and taken away, washed with the blood of Jesus Christ, never to be remembered.

Hebrews 10
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

No they did not, david d understood that not sqcrifice or burnt offering could forgive his sin, why can,t you?

The author of hebrews did not lie, as you wish him to. Never means never end of story

again, whos sins were covered the 33 times the high priest (who did not represnt god at all) made the annual atonement while jesus walked the earth? The law said all of israels sins would be covered, where they?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
3,573
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#66
No they did not, david d understood that not sqcrifice or burnt offering could forgive his sin, why can,t you?

The author of hebrews did not lie, as you wish him to. Never means never end of story

again, whos sins were covered the 33 times the high priest (who did not represnt god at all) made the annual atonement while jesus walked the earth? The law said all of israels sins would be covered, where they?
Why do you deny all the Scripture I have posted stating sins were forgiven? Do you not understand that forgiven in the OT though the blood atonement of animals is temporary? Their sins were not cleared as the NT believer in Christ. That's what Hebrews is teaching. Our sins are not merely covered, but washed away. That's the difference. Those OT saints' sins were covered but not washed away.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
Why do you deny all the Scripture I have posted stating sins were forgiven? Do you not understand that forgiven in the OT though the blood atonement of animals is temporary? Their sins were not cleared as the NT believer in Christ. That's what Hebrews is teaching. Our sins are not merely covered, but washed away. That's the difference. Those OT saints' sins were covered but not washed away.
why do you deny fact i psted which show they were not, and acripture which confirms it?

Hebrews taught a factm the blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin. You people who claim never does not mean never just amaze me.


 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
3,573
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#69
Many believe these OT saints put their trust in Jesus Christ's death, burial and resurrection for sins. If so, I wonder why Peter and the rest of Jesus' disciples had not clue?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
3,573
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#70
why do you deny fact i psted which show they were not, and acripture which confirms it?

Hebrews taught a factm the blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin. You people who claim never does not mean never just amaze me.


I don't deny what Hebrews states. I believe it. I believe that the blood atonement of those animals could never take away sin. Only the blood of Jesus could take away sin. What the blood atonement of those animals could do is temporarily forgive sins and cover them, but they were not cleared. The Scriptures I've posted are clear in their teaching. Here's an example:

Leviticus 19
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Through the blood atonement of the ram offered by the priest for the sin committed...IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN HIM. His sin was forgiven but not cleared, taken away.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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#71

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
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#72
Salvation is found in no one else. The O.T. Saints believed the promise of a coming Messiah. Their faith is credited as righteousness. Just as our faith is.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-salvation.html
I'm not getting my theology through a website got questions???

Agreed! Salvation is found only through the blood of Jesus Christ!

Again, why didn't Peter and the disciples know? Why weren't they "looking forward" to the cross?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
I don't deny what Hebrews states. I believe it. I believe that the blood atonement of those animals could never take away sin. Only the blood of Jesus could take away sin. What the blood atonement of those animals could do is temporarily forgive sins and cover them, but they were not cleared. The Scriptures I've posted are clear in their teaching. Here's an example:

Leviticus 19
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Through the blood atonement of the ram offered by the priest for the sin committed...IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN HIM. His sin was forgiven but not cleared, taken away.

And again i will ask. What sins were covered by the sacrifice of the sinful high priests who rejected christ

many people will be in hell who completed the sacrificial aspect of the law.

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#74
I'm not getting my theology through a website got questions???

Agreed! Salvation is found only through the blood of Jesus Christ!

Again, why didn't Peter and the disciples know? Why weren't they "looking forward" to the cross?
They were looking for the savior, they just did not know the savior and messiah were one and the same. It was the message that was hidden.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
3,573
113
#75
And again i will ask. What sins were covered by the sacrifice of the sinful high priests who rejected christ

many people will be in hell who completed the sacrificial aspect of the law.

Could you post the Scripture and I'll try to respond? Thanks.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
#76
I'm not getting my theology through a website got questions???

Agreed! Salvation is found only through the blood of Jesus Christ!

Again, why didn't Peter and the disciples know? Why weren't they "looking forward" to the cross?
Well, not everybody knew about the cross. And Christ also wouldn't have had to go through this if the Jews could have kept the commandments.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
3,573
113
#77
They were looking for the savior, they just did not know the savior and messiah were one and the same. It was the message that was hidden.
They were looking for the Messiah, their promised King who would sit on the throne of David and rule the earth. The cross was hidden.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
3,573
113
#78
Well, not everybody knew about the cross. And Christ also wouldn't have had to go through this if the Jews could have kept the commandments.
Keeping the law could not bring about the righteousness of God, but self righteousness.

Philippians 3:9 [SUP] [/SUP]And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
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#79
I'm not getting my theology through a website got questions???

Agreed! Salvation is found only through the blood of Jesus Christ!

Again, why didn't Peter and the disciples know? Why weren't they "looking forward" to the cross?
Take a minute and read the article.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
#80
Keeping the law could not bring about the righteousness of God, but self righteousness.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Well, back then there was not much grace. Read John 1:17: "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."