[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:3-6, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked.”[/FONT]
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Titus 3:8-11 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
Matthew 5:11-12 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matthew 5:11-12 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
dcon says;
BLAH BLAH BLAH more working for pseudo salvation.....My bible teaches salvation is a present CURRENT possession.....
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US <--PAST TENSE
YES..JESUS did become SIN for us....<--Only a deceiver would reject this truth as well....
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
JESUS was BORN of a WOMAN, BORN UNDER THE LAW and “was CURSED” when he hung on a TREE....<--Only deceivers would reject the word of God which states as much....
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "
FOLKS any and all who deny the above truths have proven they are not of GOD....DO NOT BELIEVE POST 59510..HE DENIES these truths and supplants them with HALF truths and deceit just like the garden when the serpent removed and then added his own words to the bible.......
Seohce
...”JESUS was BORN of a WOMAN, BORN UNDER THE LAW and “was CURSED” when he hung on a TREE....<--Only deceivers would reject the word of God which states as much....”
THIS IS A CLEAR DECLARATION BY DCON THAT JESUS WAS “CURSED”.
I DECLARE THAT OUR LORD JESUS IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, PURE, HOLY AND UNDEFILED. HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE AND THE WORD THAT BECAME FLESH.
SINCE WHEN HAS THE GOSPEL CHANGED?
... THAT IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH “JESUS IS LORD” …...AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. (rom 10:9)
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?” Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is THE SAME yesterday and today and forever.(heb 13:5-8)
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY and SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.
WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL JESUS “CURSED".
YOU HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT FOR THE FF;
I
FOR REJECTING THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY
FOR HAVING SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL
FOR CALLING JESUS “CURSED".
Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
BLAH BLAH BLAH more working for pseudo salvation.....My bible teaches salvation is a present CURRENT possession.....
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US <--PAST TENSE
YES..JESUS did become SIN for us....<--Only a deceiver would reject this truth as well....
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
JESUS was BORN of a WOMAN, BORN UNDER THE LAW and “was CURSED” when he hung on a TREE....<--Only deceivers would reject the word of God which states as much....
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "
FOLKS any and all who deny the above truths have proven they are not of GOD....DO NOT BELIEVE POST 59510..HE DENIES these truths and supplants them with HALF truths and deceit just like the garden when the serpent removed and then added his own words to the bible.......
Seohce
...”JESUS was BORN of a WOMAN, BORN UNDER THE LAW and “was CURSED” when he hung on a TREE....<--Only deceivers would reject the word of God which states as much....”
THIS IS A CLEAR DECLARATION BY DCON THAT JESUS WAS “CURSED”.
I DECLARE THAT OUR LORD JESUS IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, PURE, HOLY AND UNDEFILED. HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE AND THE WORD THAT BECAME FLESH.
SINCE WHEN HAS THE GOSPEL CHANGED?
... THAT IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH “JESUS IS LORD” …...AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. (rom 10:9)
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?” Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is THE SAME yesterday and today and forever.(heb 13:5-8)
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY and SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.
WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL JESUS “CURSED".
YOU HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT FOR THE FF;
I
FOR REJECTING THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY
FOR HAVING SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL
FOR CALLING JESUS “CURSED".
Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
"No"....... Praise be to God!
13) When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
14) having canceled the charge of our 'legal indebtedness', which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
(God bless dc, I will pray for a safe landing and return flight).
13) When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
14) having canceled the charge of our 'legal indebtedness', which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
(God bless dc, I will pray for a safe landing and return flight).
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Do You Not BELIEVE In the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT.
Galatians 5:22-23 (ESV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
1 John 1:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.
NO, I BELIEVE THAT SALVATION IS BY GRACE ALONE, before YOU CAN EVER DO ANY WORKS. Works are a PART OF OUR LOVE, and do not have ANYTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.
1 John 3:14-19 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him;
Now if works had anything to do with SALVATION, don't you think John would have mention it THERE.
IT IS PART OF OUR LOVE, and where does that kind of LOVE come from?
Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
1 John 4:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love because He first loved us.
1 John 3:14-19 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him;
Now if works had anything to do with SALVATION, don't you think John would have mention it THERE.
IT IS PART OF OUR LOVE, and where does that kind of LOVE come from?
Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
1 John 4:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love because He first loved us.
L
Look dc, I've read a lot of your responses on other threads and probably agree with over 95% of what you say. Except in this case you didn't present scripture as actual scripture. If I had knew it was scripture I guarantee you the response would have been much different. Still I didn't resort to any name calling and really you didn't need to go that route either.
L
I don't need any your teaching or examples Joe. I know exactly what happened here and you do too. There was zero evidence I was trying to deceive anybody, yet I was called a deceiver. Now if you want to beat around the bush all day with your silly examples trying somehow to justify that then you go ahead. Some people you might be able to fool with all that garbage. It just doesn't work with me.
L
I believe you guys have completely misunderstood me here. Actually I can agree with everything dc has said here. I never said works were necessary for any salvation to take place. What I said was is that works and following God's commandments are important. Let me give an example:
Say a guy curses all the time, is a thief and a drug addict. Say one day he hits rock bottom in his life, goes to see a preacher and sits down to pray and ask for forgiveness for his sins. Say at that very moment the man finally decides to believe in Jesus and asks Him into his heart. Say the man doesn't feel anything immediately, but the next morning when he wakes up suddenly he feels something different.
Now, up to now, the man has done no good works and he has broken many commandments but he feels a change in himself, he believes in JESUS and truly wants to begin to do better and start to please God. The man, in my opinion, has at this point been saved. Now, I never claimed the man needed any good works to become saved. I only said good works are important just as the Bible says. Now is when you should begin to see some good works in the man. Maybe he will begin simply by helping himself and stopping his cursing, stealing and drug use. Then maybe he will start wanting to help his neighbors and others. The man might begin attending church and helping there. Whatever he does, once he has been saved he is likely going to be doing some good works somehow and also paying a lot more attention to following God's commandments.
So, the works were not necessary for the man to be saved, yet the works ARE an important part of what is to follow. This is what I was saying when saying BOTH faith and works are important to a Christian. Some have said to just toss out the works and the commandments all together and that they mean absolutely nothing at all. Well, I cannot agree with that as the BIBLE clearly states that works ARE important. What I am saying is that it is a combination of faith in God and the works that follow that end up making a good Christian. BOTH are important. Now if anybody wants to disagree with this, then fire away.
Say a guy curses all the time, is a thief and a drug addict. Say one day he hits rock bottom in his life, goes to see a preacher and sits down to pray and ask for forgiveness for his sins. Say at that very moment the man finally decides to believe in Jesus and asks Him into his heart. Say the man doesn't feel anything immediately, but the next morning when he wakes up suddenly he feels something different.
Now, up to now, the man has done no good works and he has broken many commandments but he feels a change in himself, he believes in JESUS and truly wants to begin to do better and start to please God. The man, in my opinion, has at this point been saved. Now, I never claimed the man needed any good works to become saved. I only said good works are important just as the Bible says. Now is when you should begin to see some good works in the man. Maybe he will begin simply by helping himself and stopping his cursing, stealing and drug use. Then maybe he will start wanting to help his neighbors and others. The man might begin attending church and helping there. Whatever he does, once he has been saved he is likely going to be doing some good works somehow and also paying a lot more attention to following God's commandments.
So, the works were not necessary for the man to be saved, yet the works ARE an important part of what is to follow. This is what I was saying when saying BOTH faith and works are important to a Christian. Some have said to just toss out the works and the commandments all together and that they mean absolutely nothing at all. Well, I cannot agree with that as the BIBLE clearly states that works ARE important. What I am saying is that it is a combination of faith in God and the works that follow that end up making a good Christian. BOTH are important. Now if anybody wants to disagree with this, then fire away.
1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.
NOW can we lay it to rest. SALVATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WORKS. The works will be REWARDED, but SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT OF GOD.
N
man will not be justified or saved by works or the law
Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
_____________
Romans 3:20-23
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
it is not YOUR righteousness you will be judged by regarding salvation IF HIS SEED IS IN YOU (you are born again... He has taken root)
(look at my signature)
_____________
Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
_____________
Romans 3:20-23
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
it is not YOUR righteousness you will be judged by regarding salvation IF HIS SEED IS IN YOU (you are born again... He has taken root)
(look at my signature)
_____________
N
1 peter
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
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john 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
______________
john 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
No such animal as "probably will again" when it comes to sin and or breaking the law....SEE you just cannot honestly say that you are a law breaker....you must hide it in the above statement....
Have a piece of cake man......
I take no pleasure whatsoever at all when one cannot be honest with the facts on the ground....and to be honest....a truthful statement about the fact that you break the law daily in some form not only melts away your law keeping drivel, it also proes your faith/law keeping mix to be incorrect and missing the mark.
Have a piece of cake man......
I take no pleasure whatsoever at all when one cannot be honest with the facts on the ground....and to be honest....a truthful statement about the fact that you break the law daily in some form not only melts away your law keeping drivel, it also proes your faith/law keeping mix to be incorrect and missing the mark.