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Hi Israel,
Thanks for you reply, However you never actually answered the question?
You are very correct in saying that the Father and Son are not separate beings, for that would make Jesus a separate God, that is false. they are one yet three persons sharing the same attributes as scripture testifies.
It would be nice to see an answer using scripture to my question rather than mans/your ''common sense''
Many thanks
Phil
Thanks for you reply, However you never actually answered the question?
You are very correct in saying that the Father and Son are not separate beings, for that would make Jesus a separate God, that is false. they are one yet three persons sharing the same attributes as scripture testifies.
It would be nice to see an answer using scripture to my question rather than mans/your ''common sense''
Many thanks
Phil
R
Oneness/ Trinity Conflict?
All.
This thread is simply to explain what Our Bibles already teaches regarding The Deity of God. I will not approach this with anything but genuine Christian Love and Concern for all and not an "US versus THEM attitude". Just study and read what I am about to Post based on The Scriptures alone. And please, do not tell us about this person of well renown said in 225 AD or what some well known "Religious Authority" has stated or written on the internet. Simply stay within atheists context of Scriptures is that Fair enough for everyone?
If we do this in a peaceable way, we can then have effective dialog and hopefully accomplish something here. If not, then if anyone wants to malign the others please stay out of the discussion, especially for the benefit of the Newbies on Christianchat...........
GOD IS A SPIRIT ( John 4 v 24)
God the Creator, is Omnipresent, who's eternal Spirit fills The Heavens and The Earth. There is no place in His creation where His Spirit does not Dwell.
A Spirit cannot Die, nor cannot Shed Human Blood. God in Spirit never had a beginning nor will he have an end. In Hebrews 7 v 3 it states this. Someone ready mentioned to me that. Eternal refers to Melchizedek the High Priest of Salem ( now Jerusalem) and it certainly does. But you need to understand that Melchizedek was a Theopony ( Instant Human Form) created by The eternal God. He also created another Theopony of himself in Human Form in Genesis 18 when God Appeared unto Abraham with Two Angels before they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Notice both Theoponies of God were unto Abraham; Melchizedek in Genesis 14 , and In Genesis 18.
These Theoponies were not Jesus. God can do whatever he wants; including creating himself in a Fleshly body instantly without using a Human such as Mary.
In The OT God was called "Jehovah" and "Yahweh" and "Lord" among the most popular names. God was never referred to as " The Father" in The OT. The title "Father" began in The NT.
The Spirit of the One Lord/ One God of all eternity is now referred to as " The Father" in today's Lexicon.
God knows the end from the beginning. One way to understand that; God knew before he created Earth he would create Humanity with the sole purpose of having people who would Love and Worship him daily, and he in return would Love and protect them they would live forever right here on Earth, never die, never have any problems, no sickness, no fussing and fighting, a Paradise, with a perfect environment. Not too Hot or Too Cold, just perfect in every way. Before God created the Garden of Eden and Made Adam and Eve, he already knew what was going to happen before they disobeyed Him. He knew Satan would win The Spiritual battle in round #1 at Eden. In his mind he also knew thousands of years in Advance, he would have to create a Body to. Come our atonement at Calvary. His ownself In a Human body he would name Jesus.
Why would God have to create a Human Body (Jesus) for our atonement? Simply because The sacrifice had to be Spotless, without Blemish just like in the OT where the animals sacrificed had to be chosen the same way. The difference being; an animal was chosen for it's outward appearance, and a Human sacrifice had to be Spiritually Spotless and without blemish.
God knew before creation, humanity would fail to ever be able to be Spotless or without Spot. This is why God himself created his own Fleshly body, rather then have an everyday Human created to be the Sin Sacrifice.
God did not create A Theopony like he did in Genesis 14 and Genesis 18. The reason being it had to be fully Human to fulfill the role of The Testator. The Theopony was certainly human in form because it could eat food ( Genesis 18 v 8) but the Theopony it had to be fully Human to meet the Requirements.;
Galatians 4 v 4 ; "But when the fullness of the time had come, God ( The Father/ The Spirit) sent forth ,HIS SON ( his created fleshly body) , made of a Woman, made under the Law"
The law of Humanity of nature. Birth through conception with a Female.
THE THREE PERSON mis understanding.
So we read in I TIMOTHY 3 V 16 " Great is The MYSTERY of Godliness, GOD ( the Father/ The eternal One Lord, One God) was manifest in The flesh...." .....not as a Theopony, but as a little Baby who would have a "dual nature" unlike any baby ever born then or even now. Who because he was born fully human, would one day would represent all future mankind at Calvary. So the question is this; did God create another "person" who would be independent have his own personality and personality separate from The Father / The Spirit??
The answer is No, he did not. Unlike all the Males on here, Jesus and the Father are one and The same One Lord/ One God.The "Son" was under full guidance and Spiritual Control of The " Father" unlike a normal "Son" who might be controlled by his biological Human Father, to a certain point, then as the son of that Father grows up and has his own ideas, desires, thinking etc etc. No so with Jesus...he followed to the end without fail whatever The Spirit side of his dual nature was teaching him to do
SON ...refers to The fleshly creation of God not a separate deity, or person as it would be with A normal Biological Father/ Biological Mother .
FATHER.....refers to The Lord/ One God of creation who is a SPIRIT.
THE HOLY GHOST/ HOLY SPIRIT.....are the same Spirit
Please read I Corinthians 12 v 13/ Ephesians 4 v 4. The Holy Ghost is not person #3 in a Godhead. There is only ONE SPIRIT and that SPIRIT originates and in fact is the The eternal Spirit of The One Lord/ One God. Whom we call The Father.
Let me try to simply show all of us how to figurecout what Jesus is saying in Scripture regarding " The Father" or a"My Father" ...simply substitute mentally the word SPIRIT when you see the Word " Father",...and just as simply substitute the word FLESH where you see the Word "Son" or where Jesus is talking about "The Father" as he speaks in The scripture. Just always remember FLESH is Jesus/ SPIRIT is Father./ Holy Ghost is One Spirit in in The Father.
OK break time I have Church to attend... I will post this, and we can discuss ok....no arguments or quotes please...just discuss scripture. God Bless everyone......Rick.
All.
This thread is simply to explain what Our Bibles already teaches regarding The Deity of God. I will not approach this with anything but genuine Christian Love and Concern for all and not an "US versus THEM attitude". Just study and read what I am about to Post based on The Scriptures alone. And please, do not tell us about this person of well renown said in 225 AD or what some well known "Religious Authority" has stated or written on the internet. Simply stay within atheists context of Scriptures is that Fair enough for everyone?
If we do this in a peaceable way, we can then have effective dialog and hopefully accomplish something here. If not, then if anyone wants to malign the others please stay out of the discussion, especially for the benefit of the Newbies on Christianchat...........
GOD IS A SPIRIT ( John 4 v 24)
God the Creator, is Omnipresent, who's eternal Spirit fills The Heavens and The Earth. There is no place in His creation where His Spirit does not Dwell.
A Spirit cannot Die, nor cannot Shed Human Blood. God in Spirit never had a beginning nor will he have an end. In Hebrews 7 v 3 it states this. Someone ready mentioned to me that. Eternal refers to Melchizedek the High Priest of Salem ( now Jerusalem) and it certainly does. But you need to understand that Melchizedek was a Theopony ( Instant Human Form) created by The eternal God. He also created another Theopony of himself in Human Form in Genesis 18 when God Appeared unto Abraham with Two Angels before they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Notice both Theoponies of God were unto Abraham; Melchizedek in Genesis 14 , and In Genesis 18.
These Theoponies were not Jesus. God can do whatever he wants; including creating himself in a Fleshly body instantly without using a Human such as Mary.
In The OT God was called "Jehovah" and "Yahweh" and "Lord" among the most popular names. God was never referred to as " The Father" in The OT. The title "Father" began in The NT.
The Spirit of the One Lord/ One God of all eternity is now referred to as " The Father" in today's Lexicon.
God knows the end from the beginning. One way to understand that; God knew before he created Earth he would create Humanity with the sole purpose of having people who would Love and Worship him daily, and he in return would Love and protect them they would live forever right here on Earth, never die, never have any problems, no sickness, no fussing and fighting, a Paradise, with a perfect environment. Not too Hot or Too Cold, just perfect in every way. Before God created the Garden of Eden and Made Adam and Eve, he already knew what was going to happen before they disobeyed Him. He knew Satan would win The Spiritual battle in round #1 at Eden. In his mind he also knew thousands of years in Advance, he would have to create a Body to. Come our atonement at Calvary. His ownself In a Human body he would name Jesus.
Why would God have to create a Human Body (Jesus) for our atonement? Simply because The sacrifice had to be Spotless, without Blemish just like in the OT where the animals sacrificed had to be chosen the same way. The difference being; an animal was chosen for it's outward appearance, and a Human sacrifice had to be Spiritually Spotless and without blemish.
God knew before creation, humanity would fail to ever be able to be Spotless or without Spot. This is why God himself created his own Fleshly body, rather then have an everyday Human created to be the Sin Sacrifice.
God did not create A Theopony like he did in Genesis 14 and Genesis 18. The reason being it had to be fully Human to fulfill the role of The Testator. The Theopony was certainly human in form because it could eat food ( Genesis 18 v 8) but the Theopony it had to be fully Human to meet the Requirements.;
Galatians 4 v 4 ; "But when the fullness of the time had come, God ( The Father/ The Spirit) sent forth ,HIS SON ( his created fleshly body) , made of a Woman, made under the Law"
The law of Humanity of nature. Birth through conception with a Female.
THE THREE PERSON mis understanding.
So we read in I TIMOTHY 3 V 16 " Great is The MYSTERY of Godliness, GOD ( the Father/ The eternal One Lord, One God) was manifest in The flesh...." .....not as a Theopony, but as a little Baby who would have a "dual nature" unlike any baby ever born then or even now. Who because he was born fully human, would one day would represent all future mankind at Calvary. So the question is this; did God create another "person" who would be independent have his own personality and personality separate from The Father / The Spirit??
The answer is No, he did not. Unlike all the Males on here, Jesus and the Father are one and The same One Lord/ One God.The "Son" was under full guidance and Spiritual Control of The " Father" unlike a normal "Son" who might be controlled by his biological Human Father, to a certain point, then as the son of that Father grows up and has his own ideas, desires, thinking etc etc. No so with Jesus...he followed to the end without fail whatever The Spirit side of his dual nature was teaching him to do
SON ...refers to The fleshly creation of God not a separate deity, or person as it would be with A normal Biological Father/ Biological Mother .
FATHER.....refers to The Lord/ One God of creation who is a SPIRIT.
THE HOLY GHOST/ HOLY SPIRIT.....are the same Spirit
Please read I Corinthians 12 v 13/ Ephesians 4 v 4. The Holy Ghost is not person #3 in a Godhead. There is only ONE SPIRIT and that SPIRIT originates and in fact is the The eternal Spirit of The One Lord/ One God. Whom we call The Father.
Let me try to simply show all of us how to figurecout what Jesus is saying in Scripture regarding " The Father" or a"My Father" ...simply substitute mentally the word SPIRIT when you see the Word " Father",...and just as simply substitute the word FLESH where you see the Word "Son" or where Jesus is talking about "The Father" as he speaks in The scripture. Just always remember FLESH is Jesus/ SPIRIT is Father./ Holy Ghost is One Spirit in in The Father.
OK break time I have Church to attend... I will post this, and we can discuss ok....no arguments or quotes please...just discuss scripture. God Bless everyone......Rick.
C
Re: Oneness/ Trinity Conflict?
This is what you said as you planned this thread:
"All
What we see here is several who have a clear understanding of just Who God is. And several who cannot see this, so the debate goes on and on. Those who understand this;
Myself
mpaper345
studentofgod
DMurray
Forerunner......"
To you it makes no difference what we have to say on the matter.
I plan on answering you point for point, but I realize it is only for the sake of the innocent. Oneness theology is your shibboleth.
This is what you said as you planned this thread:
"All
What we see here is several who have a clear understanding of just Who God is. And several who cannot see this, so the debate goes on and on. Those who understand this;
Myself
mpaper345
studentofgod
DMurray
Forerunner......"
To you it makes no difference what we have to say on the matter.
I plan on answering you point for point, but I realize it is only for the sake of the innocent. Oneness theology is your shibboleth.
A
Re: Oneness/ Trinity Conflict?
They have stumbled badly. Striving with the stiff necked heretic out of love never ends until they have gone reprobate. Then there's no more point. We aren't even close in my opinion to that though. In any event, as Captain Redlegs said in 'The Oulaw Jose Wales,' "Doing good has no end."
The quote was strictly for levity. God bless.
They have stumbled badly. Striving with the stiff necked heretic out of love never ends until they have gone reprobate. Then there's no more point. We aren't even close in my opinion to that though. In any event, as Captain Redlegs said in 'The Oulaw Jose Wales,' "Doing good has no end."
The quote was strictly for levity. God bless.
Re: Oneness/ Trinity Conflict?
"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth;"
And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
The point is that the bible does not teach. The bible is a resource that the Holy Spirit uses to teach us all truth, and above all to abide in Christ.
"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth;"
And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
The point is that the bible does not teach. The bible is a resource that the Holy Spirit uses to teach us all truth, and above all to abide in Christ.
S
Re: Oneness/ Trinity Conflict?
Two Quick Apologetic Tips on the Trinity
10/07/2009 - Alan Kurschner
The two most frequent objections to the Trinity can be illuminated with two simple, but effective, illustrations.
First, "How can there be three and one at the same time"? This question conflates two categories into one. But Christians understand that there are two categories involved. There is one "What" (Being/Deity) and three "Who's" (Persons/Father-Son-Holy Spirit).
Here is the best illustration that I think brings out this fundamental difference in these two categories that unbelievers can immediately relate to: There is only one humanity (Being) but many individuals (persons). Individuals share in the Being of humanity, and that does not mean that I am you, and you are me — we are different persons with the same single Being.
This illustration is not intended to exhaust or explain all the elements of the Trinity; instead, it serves to illustrate this single categorical difference between Being and persons. Someone may object by saying, "Does not this analogy support polytheism, since there are billions of individuals, there can be billions of Gods or divine persons?" Let me be clear: this illustration is intended to show a single distinction between two categories — Being and persons; the point is not intended to show how many persons there are. Only Scripture can provide us this latter truth.
Next, believers are often not as aware of this second most frequent assumption that unbelievers have about the Trinity. But if you are aware of this deep assumption by those who deny the deity of Christ, you can disarm them, aiding them to the vista of Trinitarianism.
Memorize and internalize the following Trinitarian truth:
Difference in function does not indicate inferiority of nature.
That is James White's statement and it will go a very long way in your Trinitarian apologetics.
There is a built-in assumption for many that if Jesus has a lesser role than the Father, he must therefore have a lesser nature. This is an illogical inference. Those who oppose the deity of Christ point to Jesus' submissive remarks about doing the will of his Father. For example, Jesus says, "the Father is greater than I am." They infer from this that Jesus does not share the same nature with the Father (this ignores that the context is talking about their relational roles, not their nature, John 14). Jesus also calls the Father, "My God." Yet those who oppose the deity of Christ ignore that this is a humble acknowledgment of the Incarnate Jesus, modeling for us humility and submissiveness (John 20:17). This exalting affirmation is exactly what we would expect from the Son of God.
Similarly, since Jesus is the agent of the Father in many respects such as the Creation, therefore Jesus cannot be fully God. And regarding the Spirit, they will make the similar false assumption: Since the Spirit is sent by the Father, the Spirit cannot have the same divine nature as the Father. Again, they will look at these statements and make the fallacious leap that difference in function indicates inferiority of nature.
By doing so, they also deny the freedom of the Divine persons to choose their roles. Or to put it another way: they assume that to be truly God, the Son and the Spirit must have the exact same roles as the Father. Do not allow them to accept this assumption. Probe them to ensure they see this point.
So a simple, but effective, illustration will show that difference in function does not indicate inferiority of nature: A husband and wife will have different roles in a marriage. Wives are to take on the submissive role, but this does not indicate that difference in function requires inferiority of nature. Does the wife have a lesser nature than that of the husband? Of course not. They both are fully human.
I hope these two simple illustrations will be staples when you come across these frequent assumptions. The former illustration depicts the difference between Being and persons; the latter illustration depicts the difference between Being and functions.
Let's praise God for the Incarnation, which itself presupposes a submissive role that brought about our salvation. We do not worship a unipersonal-Unitarian God, but instead a complementary-Trinitarian God.
Source: Two Quick Apologetic Tips on the Trinity
Two Quick Apologetic Tips on the Trinity
10/07/2009 - Alan Kurschner
The two most frequent objections to the Trinity can be illuminated with two simple, but effective, illustrations.
First, "How can there be three and one at the same time"? This question conflates two categories into one. But Christians understand that there are two categories involved. There is one "What" (Being/Deity) and three "Who's" (Persons/Father-Son-Holy Spirit).
Here is the best illustration that I think brings out this fundamental difference in these two categories that unbelievers can immediately relate to: There is only one humanity (Being) but many individuals (persons). Individuals share in the Being of humanity, and that does not mean that I am you, and you are me — we are different persons with the same single Being.
This illustration is not intended to exhaust or explain all the elements of the Trinity; instead, it serves to illustrate this single categorical difference between Being and persons. Someone may object by saying, "Does not this analogy support polytheism, since there are billions of individuals, there can be billions of Gods or divine persons?" Let me be clear: this illustration is intended to show a single distinction between two categories — Being and persons; the point is not intended to show how many persons there are. Only Scripture can provide us this latter truth.
Next, believers are often not as aware of this second most frequent assumption that unbelievers have about the Trinity. But if you are aware of this deep assumption by those who deny the deity of Christ, you can disarm them, aiding them to the vista of Trinitarianism.
Memorize and internalize the following Trinitarian truth:
Difference in function does not indicate inferiority of nature.
That is James White's statement and it will go a very long way in your Trinitarian apologetics.
There is a built-in assumption for many that if Jesus has a lesser role than the Father, he must therefore have a lesser nature. This is an illogical inference. Those who oppose the deity of Christ point to Jesus' submissive remarks about doing the will of his Father. For example, Jesus says, "the Father is greater than I am." They infer from this that Jesus does not share the same nature with the Father (this ignores that the context is talking about their relational roles, not their nature, John 14). Jesus also calls the Father, "My God." Yet those who oppose the deity of Christ ignore that this is a humble acknowledgment of the Incarnate Jesus, modeling for us humility and submissiveness (John 20:17). This exalting affirmation is exactly what we would expect from the Son of God.
Similarly, since Jesus is the agent of the Father in many respects such as the Creation, therefore Jesus cannot be fully God. And regarding the Spirit, they will make the similar false assumption: Since the Spirit is sent by the Father, the Spirit cannot have the same divine nature as the Father. Again, they will look at these statements and make the fallacious leap that difference in function indicates inferiority of nature.
By doing so, they also deny the freedom of the Divine persons to choose their roles. Or to put it another way: they assume that to be truly God, the Son and the Spirit must have the exact same roles as the Father. Do not allow them to accept this assumption. Probe them to ensure they see this point.
So a simple, but effective, illustration will show that difference in function does not indicate inferiority of nature: A husband and wife will have different roles in a marriage. Wives are to take on the submissive role, but this does not indicate that difference in function requires inferiority of nature. Does the wife have a lesser nature than that of the husband? Of course not. They both are fully human.
I hope these two simple illustrations will be staples when you come across these frequent assumptions. The former illustration depicts the difference between Being and persons; the latter illustration depicts the difference between Being and functions.
Let's praise God for the Incarnation, which itself presupposes a submissive role that brought about our salvation. We do not worship a unipersonal-Unitarian God, but instead a complementary-Trinitarian God.
Source: Two Quick Apologetic Tips on the Trinity
R
David
You as usual have done a great job of Perverting the scripture such as claiming ; I am a Spirit" sure you are David, and I am Humpty Dumpty and I was pushed.
You people just want to argue. And when you get cornered you pervert to get out.I am trying to explain to others about The oneness, you don't like it so whatever it takes you'll find a way to pervert things because your mind is closed, and you know everything already, and case closed. OK but did you ever think about others who may want to decide for themselves, with their own brain.?
You even perverted to the readers what air said regarding those I listed who know Oneness.cabs because your name was not mentioned you claim I Blacklisted you and others..Go re-read what I actually dId David, I simply said the list of names are those Who know the Oneness. your name simply was not mentioned because you beleive Trinity has nothing to do with Blacklisting you or anyone else. Get your facts straight before you spread your poison.
You as usual have done a great job of Perverting the scripture such as claiming ; I am a Spirit" sure you are David, and I am Humpty Dumpty and I was pushed.
You people just want to argue. And when you get cornered you pervert to get out.I am trying to explain to others about The oneness, you don't like it so whatever it takes you'll find a way to pervert things because your mind is closed, and you know everything already, and case closed. OK but did you ever think about others who may want to decide for themselves, with their own brain.?
You even perverted to the readers what air said regarding those I listed who know Oneness.cabs because your name was not mentioned you claim I Blacklisted you and others..Go re-read what I actually dId David, I simply said the list of names are those Who know the Oneness. your name simply was not mentioned because you beleive Trinity has nothing to do with Blacklisting you or anyone else. Get your facts straight before you spread your poison.
R
The entire Trinity beleif was never taught by any Original Apostle of Jesus. Yes, there are references to the "Father" " The Son and Holy Ghost..but if you take all the scriptures,-and place them one after another,-they're totally explanable if you know how to explain first hand what is what by scripture.
But I can gully understand this; God not some Bible Collrge, or seminary School cannot understand it because God is the giver of his knowledge, not Man....Luke 24 v 45.
But I can gully understand this; God not some Bible Collrge, or seminary School cannot understand it because God is the giver of his knowledge, not Man....Luke 24 v 45.
C
please help me understand this topic that just circles the mountain -
if one believes in oneness doctrine he or she is saved or is not and visa versa . Honestly, the thought that salvation hinges on this one mystery of God yet to some it would seem is paramount to salvation. Wow i thought its all about Jesus and not setting up camps on either side of a valley and staring down into it.
Look to calavary where the entrance to life eternal was assured us by His blood.
Where there is unity is where God commands a blessing over, we are unified thru Christ Jesus ??arent we??
Lets be spiritually minded - mind of Christ, knowledge of Jesus, to love one another and not be as the pharasies were with the sadduces and the scribes and the lawyers for didnt they have their doctrinal differences too over the mosaic law
sorry, just being honest in my post to how i feel just as all of you are with whichever camp your in, id rather just sit at Jesus feet and adore Him for what He has done not for just me, but all of us...
if one believes in oneness doctrine he or she is saved or is not and visa versa . Honestly, the thought that salvation hinges on this one mystery of God yet to some it would seem is paramount to salvation. Wow i thought its all about Jesus and not setting up camps on either side of a valley and staring down into it.
Look to calavary where the entrance to life eternal was assured us by His blood.
Where there is unity is where God commands a blessing over, we are unified thru Christ Jesus ??arent we??
Lets be spiritually minded - mind of Christ, knowledge of Jesus, to love one another and not be as the pharasies were with the sadduces and the scribes and the lawyers for didnt they have their doctrinal differences too over the mosaic law
sorry, just being honest in my post to how i feel just as all of you are with whichever camp your in, id rather just sit at Jesus feet and adore Him for what He has done not for just me, but all of us...
C
It was your post that I copied onto the first post. If the readers would like to, they can go back and see the original post. You put out a list saying, "These are the ones who have clear understanding and the trinitarians don't." This is exactly what you accuse others of and it was done before you started the new post.
You haven't responded to my post other than to say that I have perverted scripture and to make your Humpty-Dumpty comment. As for others making up their own mind, I am doing no more than you, presenting my point of view.
You haven't responded to my post other than to say that I have perverted scripture and to make your Humpty-Dumpty comment. As for others making up their own mind, I am doing no more than you, presenting my point of view.
C
You, just like every student of scripture, have an interpretive method and point of view. I disagree with your point of view. Keep in mind that the core theology of the New Testament was formulated by a graduate of the greatest Rabbi school of the time. In addition, every Jewish boy of Jesus' time, including Jesus, Peter, James, Jude, Matthew, Mark, and John went through theological training.
God formed us in the womb. He gifted us with natural talents with the intent of matching them with our experiences and our spiritual giftings. It is not our place to criticize another's calling nor the path that God set before them. "Every good gift is from the above." That includes the great gift that God allowed me to study under some of the godliest men in the world.
God formed us in the womb. He gifted us with natural talents with the intent of matching them with our experiences and our spiritual giftings. It is not our place to criticize another's calling nor the path that God set before them. "Every good gift is from the above." That includes the great gift that God allowed me to study under some of the godliest men in the world.