Belief vs faith

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J

John146

Senior Member
#1
Jan 13, 2016
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#1
What's the difference?

Over and over the apostle Paul preaches to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Those that do are called "believers".

Once a person has believed the gospel of Jesus Christ, they are commanded to live out the faith through obedience of Scripture. The life of obedience will be judged at the JSOC. There will be some believers who suffer loss of rewards for lack of obedience. There will be some believers who receive rewards based on a life of obedience.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#2
Apr 18, 2016
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#2
Belief is more in the past- believing events happened they way we are told and that they mean what we are told- it is the belief that forms basis for our faith. Faith is hope for things to come based on what we believe.
Applying it Christian lives- We believe every word that of things that happened; creation/how man fell/ how God worked with the nation Israel/ His promises and prophesies/the messiah and His atoning works and all these forms the basis of our faith now because we believe that Messiah died for us, now we hope to live forever with God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3
#3
It depends on context. And also is sometimes hard to understand because of the english language (You do not say you faith in someone, You say you believe)

one can believe in the law of the land (mental agreement, ie, it is the law of the land, made by the rules of the land) and I can have faith in those same laws.

If I just believe, I will not obey or respect the laws. I will live how I want

If I have faith in those laws. I will respect and obey them.

the same goes with the gospel

I can believe it is a gospel

or I can have faith in the gospel

If I just believe (even demons believe) I will not respect the one who gives the gospel. and live as I please.

If I have faith in the person and the gospel. I will respect him and what he says, shown by my actions.

true faith is ALWAYS accompanied by works. Belief is not always accompanied by works. only when that beliefe reaches the "assurance" or "Faith" stage

 
J

John146

Senior Member
#4
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
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#4
eternally-gratefull said:
It depends on context. And also is sometimes hard to understand because of the english language (You do not say you faith in someone, You say you believe)

one can believe in the law of the land (mental agreement, ie, it is the law of the land, made by the rules of the land) and I can have faith in those same laws.

If I just believe, I will not obey or respect the laws. I will live how I want

If I have faith in those laws. I will respect and obey them.

the same goes with the gospel

I can believe it is a gospel

or I can have faith in the gospel

If I just believe (even demons believe) I will not respect the one who gives the gospel. and live as I please.

If I have faith in the person and the gospel. I will respect him and what he says, shown by my actions.

true faith is ALWAYS accompanied by works. Belief is not always accompanied by works. only when that beliefe reaches the "assurance" or "Faith" stage
Click to expand...

We are not told to have faith in the gospel. We are commanded to believe the gospel. Believing in the gospel is the work. The faith of Jesus Christ then justifies the believer!
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#5
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
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#5
John146 said:
We are not told to have faith in the gospel. We are commanded to believe the gospel. Believing in the gospel is the work. The faith of Jesus Christ then justifies the believer!
Click to expand...
This is a KJV-only view based on a KJV wording.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#6
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
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#6
Dino246 said:
This is a KJV-only view based on a KJV wording.
Click to expand...
You could say the same about "faith in Christ" view...

The evidence is in the Scripture. Are you trusting your faith or the faith of Jesus Christ for justification? I choose the faith of Jesus Christ. My faith is pathetic and waivers. Christ's faith never wavered!
 
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Ralph-

Guest
#7
#7
'Faith' is a noun. It's the ability to know the truth about Jesus that you can not see and find out is true on your own (Hebrews 11:1). This ability to know the truth about Jesus, this conviction, is a gift from God. It's an enabling that God gives freely to the world through the testimony of the Holy Spirit that Jesus really is the Christ (1 John 5:6,10).

'Believing' implies trusting. It's a verb. It's what you do in response to what God has shown you to be true about Jesus through his free gift of knowing--his free gift of faith.


Some accept the faith given through the testimony of the Spirit to know the gospel is true and retain it in their hearts in believing/trusting and are saved. We call that 'having faith'. That person does not reject the faith God gives them to know the gospel is true and they believe/trust in Jesus and are saved.

Most others reject the faith given through the testimony of the Holy Spirit to know the gospel is true and do not retain it in their hearts and so do not trust and believe in it and they are lost. We call that 'not having faith'. That person rejects the faith God gives to know the gospel is true and do not believe/trust in Jesus to be saved.



Faith: The power that God gives you to know the gospel is true.

Believing: What you do in response to what God has shown you to be true.
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#8
Sep 4, 2012
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#8
John146 said:
You could say the same about "faith in Christ" view...

The evidence is in the Scripture. Are you trusting your faith or the faith of Jesus Christ for justification? I choose the faith of Jesus Christ. My faith is pathetic and waivers. Christ's faith never wavered!
Click to expand...
Trusting faith? That's a bizarre contradiction.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#13
#13
I am justified through my trust in Christ, made possible by the gracious gift of faith God has given me, which is why I can not boast.
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#14
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
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#14
Bad Semantic Argument

If you're going to argue semantics, then you pretty much by definition need to do that with care and precision.



The words "faith" and "belief" can BOTH be used in different ways.

We can use definitions of the words which are virtually identical, or we can use definitions of the words which are a bit different. By bouncing back and forth between definitions of very similar words, we can create all kinds of needless confusion.



Root of the Confusion:
The OP wants to show a difference between "belief" and "faith", but the OP does NOT first establish particular definitions for each word!

The OP wants to make a distinction between 2 things without ever explaining precisely WHAT these 2 things are!
There IS NO WAY to find a distinction between 2 things if you don't first define those two things.

The OP gives no precise definition of each word before starting this process.
If we can't give precise definitions of words, we cannot possibly find any precise distinction between them.
If we don't know what they ARE, how can we possibly know if they are DIFFERENT?

(Not to mention the fact that each of these 2 words has different meanings: sometimes in scripture they mean the exact same thing, and sometimes they use slightly differently meanings to show slightly different things.)


This post actually starts off in absurdity.
It can't possibly start in absurdity and somehow end in clarity.



Conclusion:
1. To assume a distinction between 2 words which we have never even been defined... is just absurd.
2. Without first defining the words precisely, you cannot logically know a distinction even if you see it.
3. We have inherent confusion with these 2 particular words, because each word has different definitions, and sometimes they actually do mean the same thing.




 
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Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#15
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
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#15
John146 said:
You could say the same about "faith in Christ" view...

The evidence is in the Scripture. Are you trusting your faith or the faith of Jesus Christ for justification? I choose the faith of Jesus Christ. My faith is pathetic and waivers. Christ's faith never wavered!
Click to expand...
A consistent view of the use of "faith has (x) results" in Scripture leads to the conclusion that "the faith of Christ" wording is an anomaly, not consistent. Jesus said more than once, "Your faith has healed you". Not His faith, but rather that of the recipient of the healing.

Hebrews 11:1 defines faith: in the KJV it is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." In what sense has Christ not seen, since He is God and knows the end from the beginning? In what sense does He yet hope?

Rather, faith makes sense when applied as an attribute or action of a person, not of Jesus (post-resurrection at least). Abraham didn't offer up Isaac by the faith of Christ; he did it by his own faith.

If you think that the "faith of Christ" view is more consistent with the rest of Scripture than the "faith in Christ" view, I encourage you to support it... without using circular reasoning.

I might even challenge your assertion that Christ's faith never wavered, because He did say, "Eli, Eli, lama sabacthani?" but that's an aside.
 
G

garee

Banned
#16
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#16
It depends on context. And also is sometimes hard to understand because of the english language (You do not say you faith in someone, You say you believe)
Click to expand...
​

Hi I would add or offer another perspective.You could say; do you have faith in somebody because they revealed something about the person and therefore giving us a understanding, or giving us ears to hear what the other person not seen declares as His belief?

I would suggest the faith of God, that comes from hearing Him as that which works in us to both will and do His good pleasure it is the work we should desire to do. He makes our burden lighter.​
If I just believe, I will not obey or respect the laws. I will live how I want
Click to expand...
​

And what if it was the law of faith according to the spiritual understanding by which we can believe God not seen? ​
I can believe it is a gospel

or I can have faith in the gospel
Click to expand...


Believing is having a faith as that which reveals that of another, not seen. It is the work of God that man can believeGod (John 6) and not of ourselves, after the work of the imagination of our own sinful hearts as in "no faith".

It seems to be how the word faith is used throughout the Bible. His working in us not ours in or towards His.The apostate Jews turned the understanding of God upside down like that they were warned many times, as if faith came from seeing.

The frowardgeneration of natural unconverted man. Natural man because of his stony heart cannot hear what the spirit of Christ says to the churches. The Holy Spirit identifies it as "no faith" not little but "none"
​

​
Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.​
​
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
#17
John146 said:
We are not told to have faith in the gospel. We are commanded to believe the gospel. Believing in the gospel is the work. The faith of Jesus Christ then justifies the believer!
Click to expand...
you would never be told to faith the gospel. The word does not fit, you are told to believe,

but the form of belief is not just mental agreement, it is actual trust.

god does not imput his faith to you, get off this nonsensical idea please.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
#18
Should have known this was a trap, exit stage left......
 
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John146

Senior Member
#19
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
#19
eternally-gratefull said:
you would never be told to faith the gospel. The word does not fit, you are told to believe,

but the form of belief is not just mental agreement, it is actual trust.

god does not imput his faith to you, get off this nonsensical idea please.
Click to expand...
Or you get off this notion that it is faith in Christ which must be demonstrated by works...

Believing is equated with trusting. No works. Zero. To get salvation or to prove one's salvation.

Ephesians 1
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


 
J

John146

Senior Member
#20
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
#20
Dino246 said:
A consistent view of the use of "faith has (x) results" in Scripture leads to the conclusion that "the faith of Christ" wording is an anomaly, not consistent. Jesus said more than once, "Your faith has healed you". Not His faith, but rather that of the recipient of the healing.

Hebrews 11:1 defines faith: in the KJV it is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." In what sense has Christ not seen, since He is God and knows the end from the beginning? In what sense does He yet hope?

Rather, faith makes sense when applied as an attribute or action of a person, not of Jesus (post-resurrection at least). Abraham didn't offer up Isaac by the faith of Christ; he did it by his own faith.

If you think that the "faith of Christ" view is more consistent with the rest of Scripture than the "faith in Christ" view, I encourage you to support it... without using circular reasoning.

I might even challenge your assertion that Christ's faith never wavered, because He did say, "Eli, Eli, lama sabacthani?" but that's an aside.
Click to expand...
The Greek from which the English is translated is the phrase ‘Pistis Christou’, which is a genitive, and in the context, a subjective genitive, meaning that the faith spoken of is that belonging to the subject, even Jesus Christ. It is His faith which is in view here.

The evidence for the wording being a subjective genitive, referring to faith belonging to, and personal to, Jesus Christ, is backed up by similar grammar used elsewhere in the New Testament. There are many other verses referring to things which are personal to Christ or to God (eg. The ‘hand of God’, the ‘face of Jesus Christ’, etc.) which are worded in identical grammar in the Greek as with ‘Pistis Christou’ (the Greek construction used in Romans 3:22 and Galatians 2:16, meaning “faith of Christ”).
 
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