Why so much confusion about salvation?

[Johnny_B]

That's the typical Calvinistic spin on the matter. But just the third chapter of John puts the lie to that. And these are the words of Christ:

JOHN 3

THE BRAZEN SERPENT IS A TYPE OF CHRIST
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

CHRIST DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

THEREFORE THE WHOLE WORLD MAY BE SAVED
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

BUT ALL WILL NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Now the question you should ask yourself after reading the plain words of Christ is "Should I believe the Lord Jesus Christ (the Son of God) or mere men who have distorted the truth?"

Of corse I do not believe your distorted true, but you do not believe the words of Christ, John 1:12-13, 3:3, 6:63, 65, I Peter 1:3, James 1:18

John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Just to show how off course you are, everything I quoted is from the Bible and you bring up John Calvin, I never quoted him once and what I did not quote from the Bible I showed you Scripture that show where I got the teaching from, but it seems that you believe that what the Bible says that you do not like were written by John Calvin, no they were quotes fron John's Gospel, not John Calvin. You just cannot glorify God for your salvation you want to take the credit for what God has done for His people. It seems you have not seperated yourself from the world yet, because you keep associating yourself with them.

Again from the Gospel of John not John Calvin, John 6:63, 65 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.

Your problem are with these verse are others, they are not with me or John Calvin, you need to understand that man can not save himself, only God can save and Him alone. You think man is good when we are not.

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Romans 3:9-18
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 in their paths are ruin and misery, 17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

I Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[MarkWilliams]

Those who receive the faith are those who have had their hearts opened and who want it.

Nobody wants to serve God, until God regenerates them. So I disagree with the last part of your comment "and who want it", because none seek God all have turned astray. Nobody would be saved if God didn't save them so it's all up to God, we have 100% zero say in the work of salvation.
I know we all wish we had something to boast about, but the truth is we have nothing to boast about.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Nobody wants to serve God, until God regenerates them. So I disagree with the last part of your comment "and who want it", because none seek God all have turned astray. Nobody would be saved if God didn't save them so it's all up to God, we have 100% zero say in the work of salvation.
I know we all wish we had something to boast about, but the truth is we have nothing to boast about.

Some people who haven't had their hearts opened to know Jesus hunger and thirst for righteousness. So yeah many of them do want GOD and are searching for him. So they are definitely doing something. And you can't say that's not true because that was me before I was saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe those references were all directed towards the elect of God, for they were given the gift of faith before the foundation of the world and they are the only ones who receive the scriptures in faith. Those scriptures are dead to the reprobate and they cannot receive them neither will they ever receive them.

Then you have God being a respector of persons. Who chose 1 person for whatever reason, and rejected another for whatever reason. And Not being the god of Love he claimed to be, which goes right into satans lie. that God does not love, he wants to dictate. Have it his way, he does not have your best interest at heart. If he wants to bless you he will, of not, He will damn you to hell andf not even give you an ounce of hope you might someday have a chance to be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nobody wants to serve God, until God regenerates them. So I disagree with the last part of your comment "and who want it", because none seek God all have turned astray. Nobody would be saved if God didn't save them so it's all up to God, we have 100% zero say in the work of salvation.
I know we all wish we had something to boast about, but the truth is we have nothing to boast about.

No body can serve God until the barrier is removed, the barrier can not be removed until the sin issue is resolved, The sin issue is resolved via the axct of justification, or imputation of Christs righteousness to us.

AFTER this is completed. We are regenerated, we are born of God we are born of the spirit. we have been anointed with the spirit. and we are able to love God and others and serve God.

Unrtil then, we may go through the motions, but there is no real power or love in serving God.

 

[theanointedsinner]

12 questions
if they are yes/no questions
then there are 2^12 random possible ways to answer them

or 4096 ways to answer them

 

[preston39]

....If you have to repent every dau, i would ask, have uou ever repented at all.

e...,
If you don't sin during a day then you don't have to repent.
Question, how many days in your life do you NOT sin?

 

[preston39]

Amen and remember also, the kosmos is satans domain, as he is the ruler of this kosmos..
so when he says he loves the world he says he loves all who are enslaved by satans domain.

e...,

Not true.
Satan is the Prince of this world...not ruler/King. He can do as G-d allows, consistent with G-d's plan.....ONLY...no more.

Note;...."He who lets (The Holy Spirit...letting Satan) will let until He (The Holy Spirit) be taken away".

 

[shrume]

e...,

Not true.
Satan is the Prince of this world...not ruler/King. He can do as G-d allows, consistent with G-d's plan.....ONLY...no more.

Not true. It was not God's plan for 9/11 to happen, the Sandy Hook school shooting, women to be raped, lethal hurricanes, etc.

Satan causes those things because he can.

1 John 5:
19) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I know we all wish we had something to boast about, but the truth is we have nothing to boast about.

This is another Calvinistic straw man. Christians do not boast about their salvation just because they reject the false teachings of Calvinism. The Bible makes it crystal clear that sinners are required to obey the Gospel, and that is all there is to it. It has nothing to do with boasting.

 

[preston39]

Not true. It was not God's plan for 9/11 to happen, the Sandy Hook school shooting, women to be raped, lethal hurricanes, etc.

Satan causes those things because he can.

1 John 5:
19) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

s...,
Back to spinning huh?...where did I say 9/11, etc., was G-d's plan?

That wording use of ...control... is limited...not total authoritative. Pay attention...if you will.

s...we have been at this for years now and you have been proven wrong with scriptures...many times...is there an embarassment moment in the future...? ...geeeesssch!

 

[shrume]

s...,
Back to spinning huh?...where did I say 9/11, etc., was G-d's plan?

That wording use of ...control... is limited...not total authoritative. Pay attention...if you will.

s...we have been at this for years now and you have been proven wrong with scriptures...many times...is there an embarassment moment in the future...? ...geeeesssch!

lol You're a character, preston.

You said "He can do as G-d allows, consistent with G-d's plan.....ONLY...no more." Based on your statement, a person can only conclude that you believe 9/11 was part of God's plan.

And where does the Bible say that the use of "control" in John 5:19 is limited?

Also, I would be curious to know when you think you have proved me wrong with scriptures... Your primary, and maybe even only, response to me when you disagree is to accuse me of "spinning".

 

[MattforJesus]

It's because we're living in a time of profound corruption in the church, and for that reason, even though we have the written word of God, the understanding of the word from the Lord is scarce. Just as it was in the time of Israel.

"In those days the word of the Lord was rare"-1 Samuel 3:1

.

True that, and we live in a time where people are the most selfish, arrogant, and self exalting, than in the past.

Which in the last days they will be lovers of themselves, and think highly of themselves, without natural affection.

And the last generation will not obey their parents, and be pure in their own eyes, but not washed from their filthiness, and highly selfish, and highly arrogant, and will devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men, which they will heap money to themselves and not care about the people in need.

People have become so arrogant today that now they have an interpretation of the Bible based on evolution, and people can still evolve to be greater, and are waiting for the New Age Christ, the final teacher in the evolutionary process, to cause them to evolve through the power of nature to be greater.

Technology, technology, and people's selfishness, and arrogance, has always been there, but they could not pursue the things they can today to cause them to exalt themselves, but with technology, businesses can branch out more, and make more money, and money flowing like a big dog, and material things, and worldliness jubilee, and fleshy pleasures galore, and America caters to the selfishness, and arrogance, of people.

Before technology, people were basically on the same level, and with that people will like each other more, look at people as being basically decent, and caring, opinions down to a low among people, people not wanting to exalt themselves above people, and caring more for those in need, and more humble.

Jesus said since iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold.

But with technology and the advancement, it caters to the selfishness, and arrogance, and self exaltation, of people, causing different levels of people, not liking each other as much, looking at people as basically dogs that care about themselves, so they will exalt themselves even more above each other, and not care so much for those in need.

This causes for many opinions coming from people as they think they are something special, and want to prove it, and not so humble, and gentle, as in time past, and the flesh rules more instead of God, and rules more as time goes on.

People today are wrapped up in self, and maybe they have a good reason to be seeing it is selfishness, and arrogance, that drives the world today, but the lack of loving people kicks up the selfishness, and arrogance, for they do not care about the feelings of others, and they will state an opinion, and be opposition, for the sheer fact they are right, and you are wrong.

Which means in today's world people are more in to thinking they know what reality is all about, and do not mind telling you about it in your wrongness of reality.

We live in a world that is more selfishness, and arrogant, so that will hinder many people from seeing the truth of the word of God, and many that do accept still want to hang unto the flesh somewhat, for we live in a time of cater to yourself, and worldliness, and fleshy pleasures, that many do not want to give up.

But that is only one aspect of it the selfishness, and arrogance of people unlike in the past causing many people to not accept the truth of the Bible, and they are not humble as in time past to accept as they once did, and children obeying their parents is the first commandment with promise, for they are more likely to humble themselves before authority, and God.

But the Bible is the most believed, and popular book in history, and the most misinterpreted book in history, for many people believe it is truth, or holds some truth, with occultists interpreting it their way, and other religions interpreting it according to their religion, even Islam believing it is the word of God, but not all of it, and the prejudice as such, and those that love fleshy pleasures as such, which is worse than in time past.

For what can the world do concerning the Bible, for they cannot dismiss it, and they are scared to get rid of it, and the Pharisees sent officers to take Jesus but they came back empty handed, and the Pharisees said why did you not take Him, and they said no man ever spoke like this man, which Jesus cast doubt in their mind, and they said we better leave this man alone, for if He is right we do not want to go against God.

And so it is with the Bible, and the world does not want to get rid of it, for many believe, but many have doubts, and say if it is true we do not want to be going against God, and it has been around for so long they believe it is true, but many have their own interpretation of it.

So the world will not get rid of the Bible, for they do not want to take the chance among the powers to be that may be doubters, but then came along the new age movement and changed all that, based on evolution as the interpretation of the Bible.

And now it is over, for the doubt of the Bible, the fear of God if doing wrong, the fear of offending God, is gone, and the world will go off to la la land, and they still did not get rid of the Bible only accepted a false interpretation of it based on evolution, and Jesus is a good teacher in spiritual enlightenment, but not the final teach in the evolutionary process, and not Lord and Savior, which delights the other religions causing them to come together under the banner that the Bible is about evolution, and not a personal God, but the God of forces, or the power of nature, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher in the evolutionary process.

 

[preston39]

lol You're a character, preston.

You said "He can do as G-d allows, consistent with G-d's plan.....ONLY...no more." Based on your statement, a person can only conclude that you believe 9/11 was part of God's plan.

And where does the Bible say that the use of "control" in John 5:19 is limited?

Also, I would be curious to know when you think you have proved me wrong with scriptures... Your primary, and maybe even only, response to me when you disagree is to accuse me of "spinning".

s...,
Accuse you of spinning?...many times...you spin. Watxh this one...you will spin before we complete this.
If you are going to practice such..accept the classification. You can't have it both ways...as much as you wish.

 

[preston39]

lol ......And where does the Bible say that the use of "control" in John 5:19 is limited?......

s....,
2 Thessalonians 2:7

“For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.” (There are others)

Now don't try the spin thing...as you have done many times before, stick with this point ...we will get to the others later.

That's two down.

 

[shrume]

s...,
Accuse you of spinning?...many times...you spin.

Yes, you have accused me of "spinning" many times. But all they are is empty accusations.

Watxh this one...you will spin before we complete this.

OK, I'll watch.

If you are going to practice such..accept the classification.

I don't practice such.

You can't have it both ways...as much as you wish.

I do not want it both ways.

Why not try addressing the issue?

You said "He [the devil] can do as G-d allows, consistent with G-d's plan.....ONLY...no more." Based on your statement, a person can only conclude that you believe 9/11 was part of God's plan.

And where does the Bible say that the use of "control" in John 5:19 is limited?

 

[shrume]

s....,
2 Thessalonians 2:7

“For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.” (There are others)

This does not say that the use of "control" in 1 John 5:19 is limited.

 

[preston39]

..........You said "He can do as G-d allows, consistent with G-d's plan.....ONLY...no more." Based on your statement, a person can only conclude that you believe 9/11 was part of God's plan......

s...,
Only you would reach such invalid conclusion,...for impunity purposes only.....not to be constructive.

If you don't believe G-d has a overall plan then you have more serious problems than even I am aware of.
What you are saying is that Satan can do as He wishes and G-d has no authority to stop him...are you for real?

 

[preston39]

[QUOTE="shrume, post: 3656323, member: 257974"...so, I would be curious to know when you think you have proved me wrong with scriptures... Your primary, and maybe even only, response to me when you disagree is to accuse me of "spinning".[/QUOTE]

s...,
Always when you get yourself in a corner from believing in that bible you are writing....you spin in attempt to save face.

You don't disagree with me you disagree with G-d and The Bible....many times.

 

[shrume]

s...,
Only you would reach such invalid conclusion,...for impunity purposes only.....not to be constructive.

Maybe you should make it a poll, Preston...

If you don't believe G-d has a overall plan then you have more serious problems than even I am aware of.

I do believe God has an overall plan. I do not believe that 9/11, Sandyhook, women getting raped, et al, were part of it.

What you are saying is that Satan can do as He wishes and G-d has no authority to stop him...are you for real?

God certainly has the power to stop him, but God is also righteous. When Adam sinned, dominion of this world was legally transferred to Satan (Luke 4:5-6; 2 Cor 4:4; 1 John 5:19). He still has it. Many, maybe even most, of the terrible things that happen in this world are not part of God's plan at all. Satan instigates them because he can.