The prodigal son?

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Mar 23, 2016
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This point is clear.

The 100 sheep belonged to the shepherd.

The coin belonged to the woman.

The son belonged to the father.

Do the lost need salvation?
Asked and answered many times, justpassinthrough. And I am not the only one who has answered you.

Go back and re-read these posts: 53, 70, 81, 90, 93, 105, 119, 130, 136, 156, 163, 170, 182, 183, 188, 196, 197

You do not like the answer to your question so you continue to ask over and over and over as if you expect the answer to change. The answer is not going to change. You are to change your thinking so that it lines up with God's Word.




Do people in our “day and age” need to reconciled to God in order to be saved, or has something changed?
In our "day and age", the unbeliever needs to be born again in order to be saved:

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Does the born again believer need to be born again over and over and over each time he/she wanders? You have already agreed that the born again believer is to follow the instruction in 1 John 1:9.


 
Oct 31, 2015
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Asked and answered many times, justpassinthrough. And I am not the only one who has answered you.

Go back and re-read these posts: 53, 70, 81, 90, 93, 105, 119, 130, 136, 156, 163, 170, 182, 183, 188, 196, 197

You do not like the answer to your question so you continue to ask over and over and over as if you expect the answer to change. The answer is not going to change. You are to change your thinking so that it lines up with God's Word.

You have never answered my question.


You have only claimed a mixed up variation of none answers that contradict each other.

Example -


The "lost" who belong to God do not need "salvation". In our day and time, the "lost" who belong to God (the born again believer) need to be "found" just as shown in the parables of Luke 15.

In our day and time, those who do not belong to God do need "salvation".

The only way for one of His sheep to become lost, is if they belong to Him in the first place.


One can not lose what one does not own.


Try your best to muster up enough integrity to give an honest answer.


Do the lost need salvation?


Yes or No ?



JPT
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Man in general is lost. In Adam, man lost his relationship with God, but in Christ, man is made alive again.
In this parable, some will argue that being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually "again and again." We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. People like JPT who are obsessed with NOSAS interpret this parable to mean the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive "again" (regained his salvation).

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NASB). :unsure:
 
L

LPT

Guest
In this parable, some will argue that being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually "again and again." We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. People like JPT who are obsessed with NOSAS interpret this parable to mean the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive "again" (regained his salvation).

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NASB). :unsure:
I like what you said, come to think about it was the prod son dead before he even left the house, for he did want to experience the world give me my inheritance he said.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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You have never answered my question.
I have answered ... numerous times. That you do not like the answer to your question does not equal the question not having been answered.




justpassinthrough said:
You have only claimed a mixed up variation of none answers that contradict each other.
No contradiction. I have maintained throughout that the sheep belongs to the Shepherd, the coin belongs to the woman. The sheep and the coin were diligently searched for and found. The Father watched for his son to return and ran to meet his son while the son was yet a great way off (Luke 15:20).




justpassinthrough said:
Example -
The "lost" who belong to God do not need "salvation". In our day and time, the "lost" who belong to God (the born again believer) need to be "found" just as shown in the parables of Luke 15.

In our day and time, those who do not belong to God do need "salvation".
The only way for one of His sheep to become lost, is if they belong to Him in the first place.
The apparent "contradiction" arises because you continue to ask "do the lost need salvation".

If they "belong to Him in the first place", they are already saved.

Those who are saved and wander from the Shepherd need to be found. And the Shepherd searches until He finds the lost, He lays the lost on His shoulder, and carries the lost back (Luke 15:4-6).




justpassinthrough said:
One can not lose what one does not own.

Try your best to muster up enough integrity to give an honest answer.

Do the lost need salvation?

Yes or No ?
Again, asked and answered numerous times. The lost need to be found ... just as is stated:

Luke 15:

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.



Find = Gr. heuriskō = after searching, to find a thing sought.


 
Oct 31, 2015
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The apparent "contradiction" arises because you continue to ask "do the lost need salvation".

Yes you contradict yourself.


The simple honest answer is yes, the lost need salvation.


The lost have returned to being sinners who are seperated from God and must repent, in which the turn back to God and are reconciled.


That is the truth that Jesus teaches.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.




JPT
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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In this parable, some will argue that being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually "again and again." We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. People like JPT who are obsessed with NOSAS interpret this parable to mean the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive "again" (regained his salvation).

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NASB). :unsure:
I see the prodigal son as a believer who has squandered his inheritance through worldly living. His works will be burned up at the Judgment Seat of Christ but he himself will be saved.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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That is the truth that Jesus teaches.
The "truth" Jesus teaches in the parable is that when those who belong to Him wander, He leaves the flock, goes out and searches for His lost one until He finds it. When He finds the lost, He lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. He carries the one lost back.

Luke 15:

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together hisfriends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.


Nowhere in the parable does Jesus teach what you have stated here:

justpassinthrough said:
The general answer is yes, if a born again Christian dies in their sins they will go to hell.

 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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The Apostles Creed states what is required to be a Christian. It is a doctrinal document created by the elders in 312 with the earliest copy dating to 390. It also defines anything opposed to it as heresy. Before you rant Bible only keep in mind Bibles were extremely expensive and rare since they were copied by hand taking months to copy. Short doctrinal statements people could memorize was how Biblical concepts were passed on to the mostly illerate population. You always rant Bible only. Tell the board how before the printing press that was fesable.

I get very tired of your blindness to others different opinions. Part of the Apostles Creed was the concept by the elders creating it was and is agree to disagree outside of it. All of the different gospel preaching denominations today are testimony to this agree to disagree.

In this post you make assertions that there are disagreements about. Suck it up and live with the disagreements.
You mention the Apostle's creed quite often. I agree with it, granted the "descended to hell" is a poor translation. But nonetheless, in general I know of NO CHRISTIAN who denies the Apostle's creed?
So why do you always bring it up, as if there are multitudes here denying what it teaches? Its a good summary of christian doctrine.

I love the prodigal son story, its a story of how God loves people who come back to Him.
Its also great for disproving calvinism because the prodigal son "came to himself" IOW came to his senses. FREE WILL buddy!
 
Oct 31, 2015
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The "truth" Jesus teaches in the parable is that when those who belong to Him wander, He leaves the flock, goes out and searches for His lost one until He finds it. When He finds the lost, He lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. He carries the one lost back.

That’s not what Jesus teaches at all.


Jesus teaches that it’s up to us to go after the lost.

Jesus finished His ministry.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? Luke 15:4


Jesus is describing what we are to do, about sheep who have wandered away and become lost.



He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”

He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”

He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”
John 21:16



Jesus is in Heaven.


Jesus has finished His ministry on earth, in which His Spirit now dwells in us, for us to do the works that He did.


Here it is from Jesus -

  • he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also


“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. John 14:12


It's up to believers to preach the Gospel to the world of unbelievers.

It's up to believers to teach the truth to the Church.

It's up to believers to cast out devils.

It's up to believers to heal the sick.

It's up to believer's to go after a brother or sister who is lost, to turn them back to Christ.


  • “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.



A Christian who wanders away and becomes lost is no longer justified [declared right with God], and has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance, or remain lost.


Matthew's version shows us what Jesus taught about dealing with such a person, and in context shows us the principle of forgiveness and unforgiveness.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17


  • If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
  • And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.



Jesus defines the steps to take, to go after a person who has sinned against you to get them to repent:


  1. “Moreover [likewise] if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
  2. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
  3. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
  4. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.



James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.


James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth
  • and someone turns him back
  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
  • will save a soul from death


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.


For one of His sheep to become lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.



JPT
 
Mar 23, 2016
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renweddaybyday said:
The "truth" Jesus teaches in the parable is that when those who belong to Him wander, He leaves the flock, goes out and searches for His lost one until He finds it. When He finds the lost, He lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. He carries the one lost back.
That’s not what Jesus teaches at all.

Jesus teaches that it’s up to us to go after the lost.

Jesus finished His ministry.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? Luke 15:4

Jesus is describing what we are to do, about sheep who have wandered away and become lost.
Who does the sheep belong to?

The Shepherd?

The one the Shepherd sends to minister?

It appears to me you're claiming ownership of something that belongs to the Shepherd.


And it's interesting that you bring up this issue, justpassinthrough, because the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is one body over which the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head (Eph 1:22).

So if the Lord Jesus Christ as Head of His body, directs you, as a member of His body, to minister to another member of His body, does that mean ownership of the member to whom you are ministering transfers to you?

If that is what you believe, you are incorrect.


1 Corinthians 12:

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.



And we read this in Ephesians 4:

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting
(Gr. katartismon = preparing; equipping) of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.



 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I like what you said, come to think about it was the prod son dead before he even left the house, for he did want to experience the world give me my inheritance he said.
In context, we see that Jesus is directing this parable to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying that Jesus receives sinners and eats with them, while failing to recognize because of pride and self righteousness that they were sinners themselves. The main point of this parable is not that a Christian lost their salvation and had to regain it back again, but the absolute importance of finding the one lost sheep -- there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

So JPT can try all he wants to make this parable teach that this one "sheep" in this case was a saved person who lost their salvation and had to get saved all over again, but to no avail. JPT conveniently forgets what Jesus said in Matthew 5:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

In Luke 19:10, we read - for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”
*Not lost his salvation and has to get saved all over again.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Who does the sheep belong to?

The Shepherd?

The one the Shepherd sends to minister?

It appears to me you're claiming ownership of something that belongs to the Shepherd.


And it's interesting that you bring up this issue, justpassinthrough, because the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is one body over which the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head (Eph 1:22).

So if the Lord Jesus Christ as Head of His body, directs you, as a member of His body, to minister to another member of His body, does that mean ownership of the member to whom you are ministering transfers to you?

If that is what you believe, you are incorrect.


1 Corinthians 12:

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


And we read this in Ephesians 4:

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting (Gr. katartismon = preparing; equipping) of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Your attempt to distract from the context and change the subject is noted.






Jesus teaches that it’s up to us to go after the lost.

Jesus finished His ministry.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? Luke 15:4


Jesus is describing what we are to do, about sheep who have wandered away and become lost.



He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”

He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”

He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”
John 21:16



Jesus is in Heaven.


Jesus has finished His ministry on earth, in which His Spirit now dwells in us, for us to do the works that He did.


Here it is from Jesus -

  • he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also


“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. John 14:12


It's up to believers to preach the Gospel to the world of unbelievers.

It's up to believers to teach the truth to the Church.

It's up to believers to cast out devils.

It's up to believers to heal the sick.

It's up to believer's to go after a brother or sister who is lost, to turn them back to Christ.


  • “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.



A Christian who wanders away and becomes lost is no longer justified [declared right with God], and has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance, or remain lost.


Matthew's version shows us what Jesus taught about dealing with such a person, and in context shows us the principle of forgiveness and unforgiveness.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17


  • If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
  • And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.



Jesus defines the steps to take, to go after a person who has sinned against you to get them to repent:


  1. “Moreover [likewise] if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
  2. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
  3. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
  4. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.



James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.


James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth
  • and someone turns him back
  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
  • will save a soul from death


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.


For one of His sheep to become lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.



JPT
 
Mar 23, 2016
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4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? Luke 15:4
So here, it appears you claim the sheep belongs to you


For one of His sheep to become lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.
And here it appears you claim the sheep belongs to the Shepherd.

So who does the sheep belong to? You? or the Shepherd?


 
Oct 31, 2015
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So here, it appears you claim the sheep belongs to you

Jesus is using the sheep as an example, as they represent people.


Jesus is teaching His disciples about people who wander away and become lost.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17


  • If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
  • And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.



Jesus defines the steps to take, to go after a person who has sinned against you to get them to repent:


  1. “Moreover [likewise] if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
  2. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
  3. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
  4. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.





Jesus plainly asked Peter, one of His disciples to look after and take care of His sheep.


He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.” John 21:16



James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.



James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth
  • and someone turns him back
  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
  • will save a soul from death


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.


For one of His sheep to become lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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And here it appears you claim the sheep belongs to the Shepherd.

So who does the sheep belong to? You? or the Shepherd?

People who respond to the Gospel in obedience by repenting, turning to God in submission to His rule and authority, have been purchased by Him with His own blood.


For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1 Corinthians 6:20


again


8 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:18-23



However, it is His servants who go about this work for Him, of preaching the Gospel and tending His sheep.



  • How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent?




For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:10-17




JPT
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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James says it this way -

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

James 5:19-20
  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth
  • and someone turns him back
  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
  • will save a soul from death
*Notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life.

In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died".

In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning--physical death) through the water" by the ark (Hebrews 11:7).

Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in verse 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is "physical death" (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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I'm pretty sure Jesus is the one that goes out looking for the lost sheep. He is the one who knows the hearts of everyone. He may send others with the message at times, but no one can come to him unless the father draws them.

So I could go out witnessing all day long on my own, but it would do no good unless the Lord sent me. It would be like the disciples fishing on the wrong side of the boat.

In this I am just talking about the lost not the prodigal son. He was a backslider but knew the way....all he had to do was turn around and go back home.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Jesus plainly asked Peter, one of His disciples to look after and take care of His sheep.


He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.” John 21:16
So who is the owner of the sheep?

The Lord Jesus Christ?

Or Peter?

I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is the Owner of the lost sheep as well as the Owner of Peter, whom He sent to bring the lost sheep back.


But in your Post #210, you claim:

"Jesus teaches that it's up to us to go after the lost.
Jesus finished His ministry.
4 What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? Luke 15:4
Jesus is describing what we are to do, about sheep who have wandered away and become lost."


In your statements above, it appears you claim that Jesus is no longer involved in His ministry and He has delegated all (including ownership) to others.

That simply is not so. Jesus is Head over all things to the Church (Eph 1:22). He works within each one of us and equips us for the ministry. When one of His sheep wanders, He sends someone to minister to the lost and He works within the one sent so he or she can lay the lost one on his/her shoulders and bring them back.

This is still the Lord Jesus Christ (Shepherd) going after His sheep.


 
Sep 3, 2016
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'The song says:
"He poured in the oil and the wine,
"The kind that restoreth my soul,
"He found me bleeding and dying on the Jericho Road,
"And He poured in the oil and the wine."


The Holy Spirit typified by the "oil," and great joy, typified by the "wine." Luke 10:33-34

JSM