HAVE YOU BEEN TO PURGATORY?

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L

Lillywolf

Well-known member
#61
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
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#61
jaybird88 said:
then where did the idea come from, it didnt come from the sadducee and pharisee sects as they were always anti mystic and this was always a mystical concept, who were the mystics of that day, Essenes and Nazarenes. the Jewish version is ancient and they would never have picked it up from Catholics because Jews and Catholics hated each other back then.
i dont think you have to go there, if you live a perfect life without committing one sin you can bypass it, if not then its part of the judgment. you think something unclean could really enter heaven?
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As previously stated, you have to prove the Essenes believed in Purgatory. Before beginning that quest I'd recommend you search, origin of Purgatory.
 
G

garee

Banned
#62
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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#62
Lillywolf said:
The Essenes never taught purgatory. Far be it from me to hope to persuade someone who first believes they need to go to Purgatory after they die.
Enjoy the ride.
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Purgatory stems from necromancy which is seeking after the dead as if they were not dead but where in a place in between, once called limbo .It would afford their own selves time to finish that in which they say Christ has not. A picture of self righteousness

Those who promote necromancy would say the parable found in Luke 16 must be taken literaly as if those who have died could still commune with our father in heaven or saints that have left this realm under the sun as workers with familiar spirits, or what the Catholic must call patron saints.

Once a person leaves this realm under the sun there is no possibility of ever communing with one on earth forever more.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#63
Jul 24, 2016
7,585
3,616
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#63
jaybird88 said:
why do so many flip out over the idea of purgatory? this is something that always baffled me. when i was a kid i asked about it and the elders (baptist) were highly offended that i would entertain such a thought.
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Its quite simple...

Purgatory denies the ability of the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ to Atone for our sins.. Those who believe in purgatory do not believe in the sufficiency of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and thus they are no Christians....

Christians must believe Jesus and trust that the Atonement He secured for their sins covers 100% of their sins... If people believe that they need to go to a place called purgatory to get their sins purged then they do not believe in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#64
#64
Lillywolf said:
As previously stated, you have to prove the Essenes believed in Purgatory. Before beginning that quest I'd recommend you search, origin of Purgatory.
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in orther words you cant answer that question just as you couldnt explain the judgment that awaits everyone when they pass on from this world.
i have watched many lectures and read many articles on the DSS and the sin purification has been mentioned several times. i dont have the energy to look up the exact scroll right now and if i did you would still refuse to believe it.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#65
#65
Adstar said:
Its quite simple...

Purgatory denies the ability of the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ to Atone for our sins.. Those who believe in purgatory do not believe in the sufficiency of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and thus they are no Christians....

Christians must believe Jesus and trust that the Atonement He secured for their sins covers 100% of their sins... If people believe that they need to go to a place called purgatory to get their sins purged then they do not believe in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..
Click to expand...
Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

why did Paul think there was a judgment after death? did Paul not understand there is nothing for us to be judged for?
why do we ask for forgiveness of sins?
i agree, Christians should believe in Jesus and the scriptures, Jesus taught His Fathers word and the Father says we are held accountable for our actions.
 
L

Lillywolf

Well-known member
#66
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
#66
garee said:
Purgatory stems from necromancy which is seeking after the dead as if they were not dead but where in a place in between, once called limbo .It would afford their own selves time to finish that in which they say Christ has not. A picture of self righteousness

Those who promote necromancy would say the parable found in Luke 16 must be taken literaly as if those who have died could still commune with our father in heaven or saints that have left this realm under the sun as workers with familiar spirits, or what the Catholic must call patron saints.

Once a person leaves this realm under the sun there is no possibility of ever communing with one on earth forever more.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Click to expand...
There are a lot is quite a bit of paganism in the Roman Catholic practice.
At one time both purgatory and limbo were two different places that existed at the same time. It was either the current Pope or the former that said Limbo, where unbaptized dead babies were said to be sent, was now closed. But as far as I know purgatory is still open for business.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#67
Jul 24, 2016
7,585
3,616
113
#67
jaybird88 said:
Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

why did Paul think there was a judgment after death? did Paul not understand there is nothing for us to be judged for?
why do we ask for forgiveness of sins?
i agree, Christians should believe in Jesus and the scriptures, Jesus taught His Fathers word and the Father says we are held accountable for our actions.
Click to expand...
Christians are judged in the good things they have done... Not in the bad things they have done.. All our sins are covered by the Blood of our LORD Jesus.. This is basic Christianity 101.. But yet there are so many people who simply do not understand basic Christianity..
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#68
#68
Adstar said:
Christians are judged in the good things they have done... Not in the bad things they have done.. All our sins are covered by the Blood of our LORD Jesus.. This is basic Christianity 101.. But yet there are so many people who simply do not understand basic Christianity..
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That's not a judgement and it's not what the Bible says. Your inserting an assumption.
 
G

garee

Banned
#69
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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#69
jaybird88 said:
Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

why did Paul think there was a judgment after death? did Paul not understand there is nothing for us to be judged for?
why do we ask for forgiveness of sins?
i agree, Christians should believe in Jesus and the scriptures, Jesus taught His Fathers word and the Father says we are held accountable for our actions.
Click to expand...
Its the execution of the previous judgment (he that believeth not is condemned already) the last day or the second death.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.John3:18
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#70
Jul 24, 2016
7,585
3,616
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#70
jaybird88 said:
That's not a judgement and it's not what the Bible says. Your inserting an assumption.
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It most definitly i9s a judgement.. When a judge orders compensation to an unjured party it is called a judgement.. Judgements can be both punishments and rewardings..

Read this parrable to see the concept of varying rewards revealed..

Luke 19: KJV
12 "He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. {13} And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. {14} But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. {15} And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. {16} Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. {17} And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. {18} And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. {19} And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities."
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#71
#71
Adstar said:
It most definitly i9s a judgement.. When a judge orders compensation to an unjured party it is called a judgement.. Judgements can be both punishments and rewardings..

Read this parrable to see the concept of varying rewards revealed..

Luke 19: KJV
12 "He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. {13} And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. {14} But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. {15} And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. {16} Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. {17} And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. {18} And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. {19} And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities."
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The example given is a judgement but that's not what you said before. U said we are only judged on good things which would mean all else is ignored. That is s biased judgment or not a true judgement.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#72
Jul 24, 2016
7,585
3,616
113
#72
jaybird88 said:
The example given is a judgement but that's not what you said before. U said we are only judged on good things which would mean all else is ignored. That is s biased judgment or not a true judgement.
Click to expand...
What i said before is consistent with the Gospel message that all our sins will be forgiven by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus... Now if they are forgiven then the forgiven sinners will face no judgement in regard to those sins... Why are you resisting the Gospel so much?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#73
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#73
jaybird88 said:
Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

why did Paul think there was a judgment after death? did Paul not understand there is nothing for us to be judged for?
why do we ask for forgiveness of sins?
i agree, Christians should believe in Jesus and the scriptures, Jesus taught His Fathers word and the Father says we are held accountable for our actions.
Click to expand...
Is that mean purgatory?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#74
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#74
jaybird88 said:
in orther words you cant answer that question just as you couldnt explain the judgment that awaits everyone when they pass on from this world.
i have watched many lectures and read many articles on the DSS and the sin purification has been mentioned several times. i dont have the energy to look up the exact scroll right now and if i did you would still refuse to believe it.
Click to expand...
To me judgement not always punishment. Like people go to court, they may go to jail or free.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#75
#75
Adstar said:
What i said before is consistent with the Gospel message that all our sins will be forgiven by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus... Now if they are forgiven then the forgiven sinners will face no judgement in regard to those sins... Why are you resisting the Gospel so much?
Click to expand...
so this judgment Paul speaks of is an error?

i actually embrace the gospel of Jesus, your version not so much, IMO Jesus did not come to undo everything His Father said up until that point. matter of fact Jesus even said scripture can not be laid aside, in order to make your "no judgment"theory work we have to lay aside many scriptures.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#76
#76
Jackson123 said:
To me judgement not always punishment. Like people go to court, they may go to jail or free.
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the judgment IMO will be exactly like court.
if you do something evil, like murder, go to jail for life or executed.
something bad, steal a car, jail for a year.
innocent, go free.
or maybe you broke a rule, pay a ticket.
one way or another you are held accountable for you actions.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#77
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#77
No one has been to purgatory......unless you have been to one of the following places..

a. Walmart on black Friday
b. The Sydney fish market
c. L.A. during rush hour
d. A line for a ride at Disney in Florida in summer
e. In a die casting shop in summer

etc.....

As far as a religious fact...it is non-existant!!
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#79
#79
mailmandan said:
What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)
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Everything Jesus taught, everything the Father taught up to that point. I don't use the gospel to cherry pick what I want to hear
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#80
Apr 7, 2014
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58
#80
jaybird88 said:
Everything Jesus taught, everything the Father taught up to that point. I don't use the gospel to cherry pick what I want to hear
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EVERYTHING that Jesus taught? It sounds to me like you are confusing the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) with EVERYTHING that is written in the 4 gospel accounts. :unsure:

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To BELIEVE the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Galatians 1:11 - But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
 
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