REVELATION 4-7 ONE RAPTURE OR TWO RAPTURES

[dcontroversal]

Believing that something is 'imminent' includes believing that it will happen in your lifetime. It is still 'imminent' and I believe that it will happen in my lifetime. It will definitely happen in somebody's lifetime.

Imminent has more meanings that immediately . . .

Synonyms & Antonyms for imminent

Synonyms
approaching, coming, forthcoming, impending, nearing, oncoming, pending,proximate, upcoming

My application of the word is directed at those who think he can come at any minute.....the bible is clear...there are NUMEROUS events that must take place first....when they have taken place we can then rightfully say he can come at any minute...do me a favor...take a couple of hours and go to the blog section and read my book.....take a few hours and you will see why I say what I say.....thanks

 

[LPT]

Hmm aren't the stumbling blocks taken away first.

 

[pottersclay]

Well there is definately one in rev 14.
There is one before the trib in 1 thes 4,and like you say those innumerable one had to get there DURING the trib.
Not counting the 144k ( most likely another rapture) we see at least 3.

The 144 thousand are Jews....they are not raptured

 

[pottersclay]

My application of the word is directed at those who think he can come at any minute.....the bible is clear...there are NUMEROUS events that must take place first....when they have taken place we can then rightfully say he can come at any minute...do me a favor...take a couple of hours and go to the blog section and read my book.....take a few hours and you will see why I say what I say.....thanks

There is nothing that is stopping Jesus from coming for his bride. Just waiting for the time of the gentiles to end.
The second coming is not for us it is for Israel the 144 thousand.

 

[dcontroversal]

There is nothing that is stopping Jesus from coming for his bride. Just waiting for the time of the gentiles to end.
The second coming is not for us it is for Israel the 144 thousand.

Yeahhhh...ok...keep telling yourself that......

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind" (Romans 14:5).

 

[garee]

Here we have the Apostle John, the beloved Apostle and he is on the island of Patmos. Everybody thought he got a bum deal--all he got was to take care of Mary, that was it--remember that? Oh no, that's not all for him. He got to write the Book of Revelation and he gets to go up to heaven too. God had something special for him at the end. Couldn't kill him boiling him in oil, I wouldn't want to go through the system without dying that way. Anyway, God had a blessing for him and here it is.

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1).

"Hereafter," they always miss that. He's taking him up here to look hereafter. Listen, if you are at the end of time--if you are in eternity--you can definitely see the end from the beginning. God can, yea, look over here, see David, see Solomon ... look way over there, this is what is going to happen. God can do that! And so He took John up there to see what is going happen. It's the Revelation of Jesus Christ! We are going to see what Jesus is going to do. So, I like this 'hereafter.'

Some would say this 'hereafter' was the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. Nuh uh, the Book of Revelation was written twenty years after that occurrence. So 'hereafter' means . . . 'hereafter!'

Amen we can even go back to chapter 1 the Lord's day, the last day, time had to a end.... the final trump. Judgement day for the unbeliever the consummation of the wedding (new incorruptible bodies) fo the believers all in the twinkling of the eye .

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet. Revelation1;10

The bride of Christ coming down to receive her new incorruptible body . The sun and the moon under her feet as depicted in Revelation 12... the chaste virgin bride, the church.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.Revelation21:22-23

Just as the Sun and the moon.The father the source of light like the Sun and moon as the lamb the reflection of it .

John was going to be shown the things which would come to pass in the future, not the things which were in heaven in John's lifetime. John first sees twenty-four elders sitting around the Throne of God, and he sees four beasts in the midst and around about the Throne. Then in Revelation chapter five, which is obviously a continuation in time of what John saw. John sees the seven-sealed book in verse 1 . . .

"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals" (Revelation 5:1).

This is very interesting, what John is allowed to see.

"And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne" (Revelation 5:7).

When you do the connection with the thrones, it's amazing how the Book will open up to you and show you how the throne of David is the throne of glory in Jerusalem during the Millennium. That is where Jesus receives all the crowns--sits on that throne--because He won it physically on planet earth.

The throne of David as that seen was destroyed by the renting of the veil. The time of reformation had come the beginning of the last days typified as a thousand years is represented an unknown in that parable found in chapter 20

Now let's let the Scripture continue to describe what John saw. He saw a book. He saw how powerful the book is. Who can open it? No one. John starts to weep. You got a Book. You know how you receive revealed truth? By Him. By Him! He is the only One worthy to open this Book. So all of a sudden now business is picking up with John. Now he is seeing this continue.

Why is this important? Because John has gone up to heaven to see the future, and when he sees what is up yonder all of a sudden he sees a choir and they are singing. And what is important is that chapter five is in front of chapter six. Chapter six starts the seals. And if you get chapters four and five together, YOU GOT IT, no one can trick you into starting with chapter six.

"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing" (Revelation 5:8-12).

Well said. Why go above that which is written

What are they saying? "Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing!" Well, who are the they that are singing this new song? and number over a hundred million? Why? There is no doubt about it. This is the church of God, seen by John, already in heaven before the opening of the first seal by the Lord Jesus Christ in Revelation 6:1. And you need to get that, Yes!

How did they get there before the seals were even opened if they are supposed to go through part of the Tribulation?

Now, consider this passage . . .

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:9-14).

Now, again, and pay attention to this . . .

"Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14).[/QUOTE]

Amen. Have washed, not will wash (future) .Do have the white wedding apparel.The veil revealing the glory of God is lifted. Have come out of the great tribulation, not removed from it. Again its the end of time

 

[Absolutely]

It depends on the greek text.

New International Version
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

New Living Translation
And you have caused them to become a Kingdom of priests for our God. And they will reign on the earth."

English Standard Version
and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”

Berean Study Bible
You have made them into a kingdom, priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

Berean Literal Bible
and You have made them a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

New American Standard Bible
"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

King James Bible
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The "us" seems to be a textus receptus reading. The "they" seems to be the Critical text (?) reading. Perhaps the MT?

Yes the recieved text.
The Alexandrian was pronouned corrupted.
The JW's use it to pervert the testimony of Jesus. The niv is a disgrace.

 

[Absolutely]

The 144 thousand are Jews....they are not raptured

In rev 14 They are placed in heaven,so they got there somehow.

 

[Absolutely]

There is nothing that is stopping Jesus from coming for his bride. Just waiting for the time of the gentiles to end.
The second coming is not for us it is for Israel the 144 thousand.

No,the 144k are firstfruits.
They precede those raptured a few verses later in rev 14,most likely Jews.
That is why they are called firstfruits.
They enter first.
Rev 14 is critical.
Remember,you heard it here first lol

 

[garee]

There is nothing that is stopping Jesus from coming for his bride. Just waiting for the time of the gentiles to end.
The second coming is not for us it is for Israel the 144 thousand.

The 144 thousand a number no man could number (God does not numbers he forbids it).

It represents His bride the church. She is made up many lively stones that make up the spiritual unseen house of God as his chaste virgin bride, the church.

The time of reformation (the first century) has come and gone .Sola scriptura (all things written in the law and the prophets) was successful in reforming the bride of Christ the church .

It is the time of tribulation for the Jews or called Jacobs trouble who those who dismiss Christ has come the veil is rent. Using their flesh as a shadow in that parable for the time then present (kings in Israel) and temporal temple worship as that seen had come to a end.

He is coming for his chaste virgin bride the church . The gospel has nothing to do with men as virgins not having sex with woman .That's a Catholic doctrine that promotes homo sexuality .But rather we are considered as a new creature neither male nor female, Jew nor Gentile.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Men represents mankind. Male and female he made him as one creation . Not defiled with woman is in respect to the strange woman typified as the father of lies. She is also called the queen of heaven her lips speak lies seducing men away from our true husband Christ .

The kind of virgin that come by the mother of us all, the church is like that of Timothy who was espoused to Christ our husband by Paul as one of the many called "mothers" that make up the unseen spiritual house of God build of many lively stones.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

My little children "Timothy" below.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


Isaiah 62:1-2 (KJV) For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

The new name he name his bride the church in Acts (Christian)

Isaiah 62:3-5 (KJV) Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. For as a young man marrieth a "virgin", so shall thy "sons" marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride,(the church) so shall thy God rejoice over thee. (his bride)

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one (bride) in Christ Jesus.(our husband)

What we will be no one knows other than we will be like the angels no procreation as multiplying .

 

[Hevosmies]

My application of the word is directed at those who think he can come at any minute.....the bible is clear...there are NUMEROUS events that must take place first....when they have taken place we can then rightfully say he can come at any minute...do me a favor...take a couple of hours and go to the blog section and read my book.....take a few hours and you will see why I say what I say.....thanks

I cant find the blog section.

But I agree that apostasy/antichrist must come before Lord comes.

 

[dcontroversal]

I cant find the blog section.

But I agree that apostasy/antichrist must come before Lord comes.

Hit the Christian Forums at top of page and then scroll all the way to the bottom

 

[tanakh]

You know this is chapter seven, right? The other song was sung where? Chapter five. Before the seals were opened by the Lord in chapter six. Now we are in chapter seven.

Now, you got to know which came out of the great Tribulation and that was after Revelation 6:17 and before the seventh seal in Revelation 8:1. So what do we conclude? We conclude there are two raptures. If God says something, just go with it--stop looking and chopping stuff up.

I've got a Rice Bible. I like brother Rice. His book on prayer is great. He raised his family right, and did all kinds of other good things. To me, though, he was really jacked up on doctrine though. And when you read the notes about who is going to partake of that fruit in the New Jerusalem for the healing of the nations--If the Christian is worthy, he is going to eat of that fruit. I kept reading that and said, "Are you nuts??" My body is going to be fashioned like the Lord's glorious body when I see Him--Amen, all that vile nature is gone, man, I'll be like Him! I don't need nothing to eat! Where did you get that from?? Trying to force things into the Bible. Can't do it, man. Just have to mark it down. So John R. Rice is a chopper of the Scriptures. Just butchers the Scriptures. Make it say what you want it to say!

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (II Timothy 2:15).

That is so you don't get jacked up. You don't give no offense to who? to who? The Jew, the Gentile and the church of God. If I go across the street to my neighbors, and get his mail, open it and start reading it--I could go to prison. I really could. Stupid! So for me to read other peoples mail and try to apply it to me doctrinally? Stupid!

Hey, You endure unto the end!
Hey, You drink poison, bless your little heart!

I just want you to see that we are living in a day and age of delusion.

But I'm going to tell you what! You need to know the Book! God commands you to know that Book! I mean, it's for Him. You are approved by Him. Not by man, being smart, and knowing it--but by God. You are doing what He wants you to do. So if you can see what is going on in our country. Everything that was progressive and liberal then, is mainstream now. The thought behind that, like I told you, was the hippy songs of the past--the age of Aquarias, and with the Beatles--Imagine--every time there is a big event they always sing that song, "There is no heaven, there is no hell." You ought to look at the lyrics. That is the philosophy! We are going to have a globalization where everybody is going to be naked, live in a perfect environment, not going to eat no meat--just think about that a little while--ain't gonna kill no animals, going to eat all vegetables. Man, our kids are going to be so perfect and so smart. Only problem with that, you're as wicked as hell. It ain't gonna work. It just ain't gonna work. Yet people are buying into it. Christians are buying into it. Removing all the separation and borders.

It's called the ecumenical movement.

It's this grouping together of people claiming to be Christians and they are all trying to get together and have a happy little family. That started in the 30's. Baptist preachers preached against the communist stuff a long time ago. Somehow they lost their message--stopped preaching it. Our people are getting swept in. Well, if if it's good, and everybody's nice and everybody's perfect--everything is cool. No! Not necessarily.

This, this is it. This is the manual. You men in the service. You can take an AR or M-16, and you can take it apart and put it back together. It's just one of those things. You get used to it. You can take it apart. You get used to it. Christians ought to be used to their weapon. And if you ain't got your weapon, that's your main thing. That is your defense against your brain and your thoughts being taken captive. And if that ain't down. If your kids don't have that in their hearts, they have no counter and the devil is powerful.

I don't know, I'm just going to deliver the goods as best as I can. Give you what I can. Get you thirsty and show you that the Book has already spoke about what is going to take place--and you aren't going to change it.

- It tells you about the heart of man.
- It tells you how the Antichrist is going to convince everybody--by speech.
- It tells you what eventually he is going to do--sit on the mercy seat--in the temple.

Well, people, the temple isn't built yet but it is going to be built. That tells me something is coming, and that is the 'abomination of desolation' of that temple spoken of in Daniel. So all that was said 800 years ago is coming. It's closer than it ever was. Therefore, the deceivableness, the delusion, is even more. Get you to think you are doing good, so everythings is okay. Well, it's okay for awhile. At the Judgement Seat of Christ it will be required of you of what sort you did, what was your motive behind what you did. And I'm telling you what--if it is contrary to this--you got problems. And He deals with us now, before we even get there. Everyone of us knows. Everyone of us that is saved knows that that is true. We got ups and downs, and when we go down guess who's controlling our brain? It ain't God. When He comes in, He takes charge. The Holy Spirit gives us peace. Boom!

Then how you do up there depends on how humble you are. Then all of a sudden you get a big head? It's like that. Just like the Bible. Okay send them Moses. Okay, send them Joshua. Give them a deliverer. Help them when they are down. Well, they have a big Deliverer coming, don't they. At the second advent they will see Him.

And last but not least, it is called the 'Time of Jacob's Trouble,' not the 'Time of the church's trouble' ... Jacob's trouble. Amen![/QUOTE/|


The abomination of desolation has already appeared twice. The first time was through by Antiochus and the second time
by Titus in AD70 which Jesus predicted in Matthew 24 when he referred to Daniels prophecy.

Jesus never predicted another Temple being built. The only other Temple he mentioned was his own body. The whole Mosaic covenant and system of worship and Temple sacrifice was fulfilled and done away with by him. What part of Christs ministry death and resurrection do you feel failed for God to need it to be brought back again? Both he and John the Baptist proclaimed that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand not that it would be coming in 2000 plus years time. Only those who believe in Christ as Lord and Saviour are of Israel

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

The abomination of desolation has already appeared twice. The first time was through by Antiochus and the second time
by Titus in AD70 which Jesus predicted in Matthew 24 when he referred to Daniels prophecy.

Jesus never predicted another Temple being built. The only other Temple he mentioned was his own body. The whole Mosaic covenant and system of worship and Temple sacrifice was fulfilled and done away with by him. What part of Christs ministry death and resurrection do you feel failed for God to need it to be brought back again? Both he and John the Baptist proclaimed that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand not that it would be coming in 2000 plus years time. Only those who believe in Christ as Lord and Saviour are of Israel

I believe the date of authorship for Revelation is 90 A. D. -- 20 years after the sack of Jerusalem.

What evidence have you that Titus sacrificed anything on the altar of the Temple in 70 A.D.?

So you are just guessing when you say that Matthew 24 is referring to 70 A. D., as He could well be speaking of the events of the Tribulation, which context suggests.

 

[Absolutely]

I believe the date of authorship for Revelation is 90 A. D. -- 20 years after the sack of Jerusalem.

What evidence have you that Titus sacrificed anything on the altar of the Temple in 70 A.D.?

So you are just guessing when you say that Matthew 24 is referring to 70 A. D., as He could well be speaking of the events of the Tribulation, which context suggests.

I think it is recorded. Could have been Josephus.

 

[Locutus]

Tanakh:


The abomination of desolation has already appeared twice. The first time was through by Antiochus and the second time
by Titus in AD70 which Jesus predicted in Matthew 24 when he referred to Daniels prophecy.

Jesus never predicted another Temple being built. The only other Temple he mentioned was his own body. The whole Mosaic covenant and system of worship and Temple sacrifice was fulfilled and done away with by him. What part of Christs ministry death and resurrection do you feel failed for God to need it to be brought back again? Both he and John the Baptist proclaimed that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand not that it would be coming in 2000 plus years time. Only those who believe in Christ as Lord and Saviour are of Israel

Right on T.

The kingdom was at hand and was fully manifested at Pentecost - the kingdom does not come with observation but it's effects are.

The dispensationalists are as bad as the pharisees:

(Luke 17:20 KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Peter states the recipients (the dispersed tribes) of his letter are Priests in the kingdom:

(1 Pet 2:9 KJV) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Right on T.

The kingdom was at hand and was fully manifested at Pentecost - the kingdom does not come with observation but it's effects are.

The dispensationalists are as bad as the pharisees:

The Roman kingdom . . .

 

[Absolutely]

Right on T.

The kingdom was at hand and was fully manifested at Pentecost - the kingdom does not come with observation but it's effects are.

The dispensationalists are as bad as the pharisees:

(Luke 17:20 KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Peter states the recipients (the dispersed tribes) of his letter are Priests in the kingdom:

(1 Pet 2:9 KJV) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Dispensations are pretty obvious in Gods dealings.
In fact in the whole of the OT was,in part, for the formation of geneologies. Some lived and died solely for the purpose bloodline.
The target,for the mostpart,was mary,joseph and john.
God actually operates in dispesations of time
" when you see the fig tree give forth new leaves...."

No boggey man in the dispensations of God

I dont think peter was addressing tribes.
He wrote that from Babylon to brethren. Born again believers

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Pharisees like to call people that they disagree with Pharisees . . . go figure!