Faith comes by "hearing", "hearing" by the word of God ? You decide .

[Pisteuo]

The Vines also defined pisteuo as " a firm conviction , producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth . "

 

[Pisteuo]

Amen
Ive quoted that verse many times in this guys' threads too

EPHESIANS 1:13 IS OVER LOOKED!

Don't just throw a verse of Scripture at me , apply it into the topic and format I'm presenting . You want me to do your work for you ?

We are discussing the beginning of the Salvation process .

 

[Hepzibah]

Pisteuo or the application of Faith , ( faithing ) is a continual , daily action , throughout the Salvation journey .

Amen. It is what is meant by walking by faith.

 

[garee]

Sorry , my tablet got me again Hephzibah .
That should have read , " hearing God's word " is Not " the true act of pisteuo or faithing .

Not sure what the word faithing means? I have not heard that word before.

Hearing God's word is the source by which we can believe God (our first love). We love him or can love him because he did the first work of his faithfulness as our faithful Creator.


Faith is the gift, previously having none "not little". We are saved by the hearing of His faith and kept by the same faith that works in us with us to both will and perform the good pleasure of God. He promise us if he has begun the good work of his faith working in us, he will finish it to the end


galatians 3 King James Version (KJV) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[Pisteuo]

This comes from an academic who knows the Greek language:

Colossians 2:6-7 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

• This conjuction: “as” (hos in Greek). So it could be either relative comparison or something about the grounds on which you ought to behave that are deriving from your profession of faith---believing loyalty. “Believing” is the faith part; “loyalty” is how we live in light of our faith. You can’t divorce the belief that you have from the process. So we’ve got a relationship between receiving Christ by faith and walking in him.
• “received” in the Greek language is an aorist tense; specifically it’s aorist active indicative. Now indicative is the mood of reality as opposed to the mood of unreality. Other moods deal with unreality. And the difference grammatically is that the indicative mood is about something that’s real; it’s really happened. The aorist tense in Greek focuses on action as a snapshot. In other words, the action is usually in the past because it’s an action that’s completed. It’s not out in the future.
• And then he adds a series of participles; so we’ve got rooted, built up, established, and abounding. And, those words are in some way tied or related to the main verb, which is “received.” The first three are passive participles. Passive implies you are not doing the action, but it is being done for you.
• “rooted” (participle) is a passive participle in the Greek language. “Rooted” is a perfect tense. Perfect tense in Greek conveys an action or event that has occurred in the past, but it has continuing effects or results. At some point, we got rooted. And then, also, it’s our present state. You’re still rooted; it’s ongoing. And it happened when they received Christ. That’s the aorist, that’s this one-time completed event. And then in relation to that event, they were rooted. Since it’s passive, something or someone rooted the Colossians in Christ; the Colossians didn’t do this, themselves; it’s something that was done to them. They were rooted in Christ by God. You put a plant in the ground; it takes hold. Now you expect it to progress to maturity, to grow.
• “Built up” (participle) is a passive participle. “Built up” is present tense (a progressive action). You would use the present tense to convey the sense of action in progress. God roots you—he plants you—in Christ, and then “builds you up” (it’s passive), so now you’re being built up by God.
• “Established” (participle) is a passive participle. “Established” is present tense (a progressive action). You would use the present tense to convey the sense of action in progress. God roots you, builds you up, and establishes you ( it’s passive), so now you’re being established. God has to do that work. There are commentators out there who take the passive participles as being imperatives, like commands. That’s not coherent, because I don’t know how you obey a passive command. How do you do that? Because as soon as you start doing it, you turn it into active. It just doesn’t make any sense. So it’s either the Colossians who are doing these things (and that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense if they’re not commands) or it’s God who has rooted them, God who is building them up progressively, God who is establishing them in the faith progressively. But the Colossians still have a role to play because they can resist the Spirit.
• “abounding” is an active participle. “Abounding” is present tense (a progressive action). You would use the present tense to convey the sense of action in progress. But, it’s action in process. This is our role. And, if we’re really cooperating, it’s God who will build us up and will establish us. And we should be abounding in thanksgiving. We should be thankful/grateful. We’re back to this gratitude theme.

Having been rooted in Christ, you will therefore be built up (it’s passive), you will be established (it’s passive—again, God is the primary actor in both of those things), and in your response you’re abounding (active) in thankfulness; all of that’s going to happen (and now I’m going to quote Colossians 1:23)… if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting [“being moved”—that’s passive, as well] from the hope of the gospel that you heard… It still goes back to “You must believe.” It’s believing loyalty. You must believe. And if you believe–if you cooperate with God, if you believe, and if you’re trying to imitate the Lord and you’re trying to do what your savior and your master says, God will do these things in you. He will produce fruit from your life. But you have to keep believing. That’s really your primary role. It’s to be loyal to this God who saved you, who has forgiven you, who loves you. It’s returning love. It’s also being useful to him, because you want other people to be part of this. You want other people to have everlasting life.
“So, on the grounds that you received Christ, God roots you, God builds you up, and God establishes you in the faith, as you have been taught, and the Colossians respond with an abundance of thanksgiving (or excessive giving of thanks).

This doesn't really address the state of being at the beginning of the Salvation process , while we are outside of Christ and His Word , or pisteuo specifically .

The specific definition of the verb form of Faith , pisteuo is a specific act , based upon a specific belief , sustained by a specific kind of confidence . That specific act is defined in the Vines Greek dictionary . " A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . The specific belief is that He will accept the surrendered life , sustained by a specific kind of confidence , that we make all of our daily decisions supporting the surrendered life , that it's no longer ours .

Just to let you know , I've sat under an instructor for 30 years . He was a Dr. Of theology and education from Stanford University . He was fluent in all the ancient languages and taught them at a Stanford University professor level . He also collected the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands, behind the Vatican . He taught from those manuscripts for over 50 years . He was and still is a teachers teacher . There is no one more academically qualified than him or his students .

The object of Faith can't be Faith itself , God's Word , or His promises , it must be the Lord Jesus Christ , a real living person .

 

[garee]

Oh , Faith and the Salvation journey is a joke to you !

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed . Akoe

Question? Does the word it in the familiar phrase; "as it is written" .Does it represent the unseen exclusive faith of God?

 

[LPT]

This doesn't really address the state of being at the beginning of the Salvation process , while we are outside of Christ and His Word , or pisteuo specifically .

The specific definition of the verb form of Faith , pisteuo is a specific act , based upon a specific belief , sustained by a specific kind of confidence . That specific act is defined in the Vines Greek dictionary . " A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . The specific belief is that He will accept the surrendered life , sustained by a specific kind of confidence , that we make all of our daily decisions supporting the surrendered life , that it's no longer ours .

Just to let you know , I've sat under an instructor for 30 years . He was a Dr. Of theology and education from Stanford University . He was fluent in all the ancient languages and taught them at a Stanford University professor level . He also collected the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands, behind the Vatican . He taught from those manuscripts for over 50 years . He was and still is a teachers teacher . There is no one more academically qualified than him or his students .

The object of Faith can't be Faith itself , God's Word , or His promises , it must be the Lord Jesus Christ , a real living person .

By saying people are outside of Christ and his word is trick of satan to try get folks to deny Jesus.

Your Dr. taught 50 yrs of idiotism.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If you have been following the other two threads , ( Rom. 8:9 and our walk with Christ , repentance and the Salvation journey ) I have shown that because at the beginning of the Salvation journey , we don't have the Spirit of Christ yet ,. Christ , His Word , and the promises in His word are not ours to claim yet . Therefore , " believing " then recieving His Spirit at this beginning stage would be claiming something that is not ours yet .

This misunderstanding of how Faith ( pistis ) is applied ( pisteuo ) is from the English language not having a verb form of Faith , which should have been the words (faithe , faither , and faithing ). When they had to choose another word ( believe , believer , and believing ) it seemingly started a process of perverting or understanding it backwards . I think I made a good argument in the first two threads , here is another understanding I would like to share for discussion .

And here is my disclaimer , I don't mean to upset people or cause distention here . I've thought about and concidered these understandings daily for over 30 years . I would feel right within myself if didn't share this for your consideration .

Ok , here we are at the start of our Salvation journey . We are being drawn or called out by the Father to Christ . We repent by making a mental turn from our way to His way . We then take our first step of Faith ( pisteuo , faithing ) .

In today's church world , that step is " believing " in What God has done and promises ( His Word ) , then recieving His Spirit . As I stated , this isn't possible due to at the beginning state , none of those things are ours yet . At this stage , " believing in God Word " is not a true act of pisteuo or faithing .

So , this is where Rom. 10:17 comes in . One might say " Faith comes by hearing , hearing by the Word of God ." And this proves that the hearing of Gods word is " the " act of pisteuo or faithing .

Over the years , something about Rom. 10:17 just didn't sit right with me . First , it was the fact Gods word wasn't available for public consumption until the 1500's. My funny brain asked , how did people all over the world get access to God's word before that , before it was put together ? I realize , a few had access to the spoken word , does that mean the Father could only call those in that specific vicinity ? If the Father called someone in the year 32 ad on the other side of the world , they would have access to " believe " His Word hence could not respond in Faith.

Second , I decided to dig into Rom.10:17 deeper . When I did it took me to my Interlineal Bible , and then to my Strongs expanded .

This is what I found .
The Greek word the Writers used to communicate the word "hearing" is 189 akoe . This is the exact definition from the Strongs specific to Rom. 10:17 word for word .

( 7b ) " the recieving of a message " Rom. 10:17 , something more than a mere sense of " hearing "; an interaction with the Word and a decision is always made. [ Compare to a courtroom hearing ].

Now submitting the fact I've always known we don't accept Christ , He accepts us , I was looking at this with some big questions .

1) since this is a courtroom type of hearing , is it ever ok to put Christ or His word on trial ? Where we sit on the judgement seat and Christ or His Word is on trial ?

2) were taught never to judge each other , but it's ok to judge Christ and His Word ?

3) shouldn't Christ be on the judgement seat , and we have something that needs to be on trial ?

My conclusion , is that when they translated the Greek into the English language , they may have left out just two letters in Rom. 10:17 that again , gave a backwards understanding .

Here is how I understand Rom. 8:9 should read , with a correct application of pisteuo or faithing .

Rom. ,8:9 should read , " Faith comes by " A " hearing , " A " hearing by the word if God .

The correct application of Rom. 8:9 concerning the topic of our state of being at the beginning of the Salvation process is ,

We are called , we repent , we take our first true step of Faith toward God ( pisteuo or faithing ) which is , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ," when we make that first act of Faith , faithing , pisteuo in the Greek , that act goes before Christ who is legitamently sitting on the judgement seat . What is being " heard " and a decision is always being made ? The submission of our surrendered life , and whether it is genuine or not . That is what's being heard , a hearing by the word of God , " Christ " !

If , He deems the first act of pisteuo to be genuine , we move forward in the Salvation journey or process into the testing ground or what Christ calls the parable of the sower . Where 3 out of the four soils Christ had deemed genuine will fail .

At this what I'm calling the third part of the Salvation process , we still " do not " have the Spirit of Christ sealed into us yet . So Christ , His word , and His promises in His word are still not ours to claim yet either .

Your first steps of your "faith journey" as you call it begins with God calling. I think we have to consider, who is he calling? Is it likely that he is calling the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14? If so, that man cannot respond to spiritual things, such as a spiritual God. All spiritual things are foolishness unto him because he cannot discern spiritual things. He would surely not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he has no knowledge of. The process of a natural man becoming a spiritual man is referenced in Eph 2:5. When God puts his Spirit within him, is when he starts his journey of faith. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, you have to have the Spirit before you can have faith in spiritual things. We did not come upon faith by our own efforts, but it was freely given to us in regeneration. We are quickened together with Christ (Eph 2:5)

 

[Pisteuo]

Question? Does the word it in the familiar phrase; "as it is written" .Does it represent the unseen exclusive faith of God?

With respect could I get just one person to directly address the OP . What does the question have to do with the beginning of the Salvation process , akoe , or pisteuo ?

 

[Pisteuo]

Your first steps of your "faith journey" as you call it begins with God calling. I think we have to consider, who is he calling? Is it likely that he is calling the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14? If so, that man cannot respond to spiritual things, such as a spiritual God. All spiritual things are foolishness unto him because he cannot discern spiritual things. He would surely not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he has no knowledge of. The process of a natural man becoming a spiritual man is referenced in Eph 2:5. When God puts his Spirit within him, is when he starts his journey of faith. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, you have to have the Spirit before you can have faith in spiritual things. We did not come upon faith by our own efforts, but it was freely given to us in regeneration. We are quickened together with Christ (Eph 2:5)

Don't want to untangle your entire response according to my understanding , but maybe we can start at the beginning where I've intended this discussion to launch from .

I'll give you solid teaching about how the Father calls . Not important for you to completely agree to proceed with a productive discussion .

The Greek is specific , God the Father calls out a small group , out from among a larger group that is not called . Years of exhaustive study at at Stanford University professor teaching level , with all the ancient texts available to Gleen from , all in one sentence .

With that said what is God calling us to . Well Christ obviously . Nobody comes to Christ less the Father draws or calls them . But , as The Father is calling some to Christ , He is also calling those to make a response . The first of which is repentance .

Repentance , is just a response to the call in which the called out one just makes a mental turning of the head so to speak , from his way to God's way . Not an act of Faith or faithing yet ( pistis or pisteuo ). That's all repentance is , are we in agreement so far ?

 

[LPT]

Let's do some debunking

The largest privately own collection of bible manuscripts

The Schoyen Collection: 20,000 Ancient Manuscripts from 134 Countries in 120 languages

First up behind the Vatican the Norwegian Engineer M.O Schoyen (1889-1962) not some Stanford Dr.

 

[Pisteuo]

Let's do some debunking

The largest privately own collection of bible manuscripts

The Schoyen Collection: 20,000 Ancient Manuscripts from 134 Countries in 120 languages

First up behind the Vatican the Norwegian Engineer M.O Schoyen (1889-1962) not some Stanford Dr.

Google also valadates the backwards understanding of Faith and faithing , pistis and pisteuo , your currently trying to build a relationship with Christ on . Don't faithe in everything you google .

 

[LPT]

Google also valadates the backwards understanding of Faith and faithing , pistis and pisteuo , your currently trying to build a relationship with Christ on . Don't faithe in everything you google .

Tell me your good dr. name so I can validate him

 

[LPT]

Because at this point it's rocks in a jelly roll. that alone got me questioning every thing now.

 

[LPT]

Google also valadates the backwards understanding of Faith and faithing , pistis and pisteuo , your currently trying to build a relationship with Christ on . Don't faithe in everything you google .

You only say Christ how about his name? I haven't seen you type it

 

[Pisteuo]

Tell me your good dr. name so I can validate him

Don't take that reply as me starting a convo back up with you . You had ample time to put your understanding on the table to be tested . You desire to just derail , and disrupt any discussion by others . So just do what you gotta do .

 

[LPT]

Don't take that reply as me starting a convo back up with you . You had ample time to put your understanding on the table to be tested . You desire to just derail , and disrupt any discussion by others . So just do what you gotta do .

Your getting more and more deluded and continue to make false claims like of your good Dr. from Stanford.

The reason you don't supply any validation to your claims is because I don't think you have any.[/QUOTE]

 

[LPT]

Yeshua haNotzri

Also known as Jesus...

 

[1ofthem]

Mt. 3
The voice of one crying in the wilderness saying repent you for the kingdom of heaven is at hand....bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.

What is the fruits meet for repentance? Is it not your whole heart, mind, and soul? Believing in him and loving him and wanting him above all else!

Jesus said that he that comes to me must be willingly to put me above all else... mother, father, brother, sister, husband, wife, kids and even your own self. In other words give him your whole heart.

So yeah, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word...We are saved by grace through faith...Not of works... salvation is the gift of God...to all those who believe in him and repent and give him their whole heart.

So when he calls anyone and they repent and give him their whole heart then they are saved...Of course they will still have to grow in him through his grace and go through the sanctification process, but they are born again the minute that they repent and give him their whole heart.

 

[Pisteuo]

If you have been following the other two threads , ( Rom. 8:9 and our walk with Christ , repentance and the Salvation journey ) I have shown that because at the beginning of the Salvation journey , we don't have the Spirit of Christ yet ,. Christ , His Word , and the promises in His word are not ours to claim yet . Therefore , " believing " then recieving His Spirit at this beginning stage would be claiming something that is not ours yet .

This misunderstanding of how Faith ( pistis ) is applied ( pisteuo ) is from the English language not having a verb form of Faith , which should have been the words (faithe , faither , and faithing ). When they had to choose another word ( believe , believer , and believing ) it seemingly started a process of perverting or understanding it backwards . I think I made a good argument in the first two threads , here is another understanding I would like to share for discussion .

And here is my disclaimer , I don't mean to upset people or cause distention here . I've thought about and concidered these understandings daily for over 30 years . I would feel right within myself if didn't share this for your consideration .

Ok , here we are at the start of our Salvation journey . We are being drawn or called out by the Father to Christ . We repent by making a mental turn from our way to His way . We then take our first step of Faith ( pisteuo , faithing ) .

In today's church world , that step is " believing " in What God has done and promises ( His Word ) , then recieving His Spirit . As I stated , this isn't possible due to at the beginning state , none of those things are ours yet . At this stage , " believing in God Word " is not a true act of pisteuo or faithing .

So , this is where Rom. 10:17 comes in . One might say " Faith comes by hearing , hearing by the Word of God ." And this proves that the hearing of Gods word is not a true act of pisteuo or faithing .

Over the years , something about Rom. 10:17 just didn't sit right with me . First , it was the fact Gods word wasn't available for public consumption until the 1500's. My funny brain asked , how did people all over the world get access to God's word before that , before it was put together ? I realize , a few had access to the spoken word , does that mean the Father could only call those in that specific vicinity ? If the Father called someone in the year 32 ad on the other side of the world , they would have access to " believe " His Word hence could not respond in Faith.

Second , I decided to dig into Rom.10:17 deeper . When I did it took me to my Interlineal Bible , and then to my Strongs expanded .

This is what I found .
The Greek word the Writers used to communicate the word "hearing" is 189 akoe . This is the exact definition from the Strongs specific to Rom. 10:17 word for word .

( 7b ) " the recieving of a message " Rom. 10:17 , something more than a mere sense of " hearing "; an interaction with the Word and a decision is always made. [ Compare to a courtroom hearing ].

Now submitting the fact I've always known we don't accept Christ , He accepts us , I was looking at this with some big questions .

1) since this is a courtroom type of hearing , is it ever ok to put Christ or His word on trial ? Where we sit on the judgement seat and Christ or His Word is on trial ?

2) were taught never to judge each other , but it's ok to judge Christ and His Word ?

3) shouldn't Christ be on the judgement seat , and we have something that needs to be on trial ?

My conclusion , is that when they translated the Greek into the English language , they may have left out just two letters in Rom. 10:17 that again , gave a backwards understanding .

Here is how I understand Rom. 8:9 should read , with a correct application of pisteuo or faithing .

Rom. ,8:9 should read , " Faith comes by " A " hearing , " A " hearing by the word if God .

The correct application of Rom. 8:9 concerning the topic of our state of being at the beginning of the Salvation process is ,

We are called , we repent , we take our first true step of Faith toward God ( pisteuo or faithing ) which is , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ," when we make that first act of Faith , faithing , pisteuo in the Greek , that act goes before Christ who is legitamently sitting on the judgement seat . What is being " heard " and a decision is always being made ? The submission of our surrendered life , and whether it is genuine or not . That is what's being heard , a hearing by the word of God , " Christ " !

If , He deems the first act of pisteuo to be genuine , we move forward in the Salvation journey or process into the testing ground or what Christ calls the parable of the sower . Where 3 out of the four soils Christ had deemed genuine will fail .

At this what I'm calling the third part of the Salvation process , we still " do not " have the Spirit of Christ sealed into us yet . So Christ , His word , and His promises in His word are still not ours to claim yet either .

Bumped with a correction .