Pre-Trib Rapture and Premillennialism are False Doctrines

[delirious]

^ Sign of desperation

You are correct. But the desperation is about your hopelessness. You ignore the logical conclusions of your system that prove it false and cling to the "the time is near"

But it's all in good fun. I'm sure you have Don K. Preston posters all over your room along with Kenneth Gentry and William Bell lol.

I'm just teasing brother. Keep trucking on and fight for your views! I wish more people defended their views of what they think Scripture is really saying.

 

[Angela53510]

You misquoted what I said. I said that Thayer is considered "one of the best" lexicons not "the best" lexicon as you misquoted me.

The rest of your post is just an ad hominem attack against Thayer and does not disprove the legitimacy of his lexicon. Many people think it is a great lexicon.

Whether you want to use BDAG or Thayer or BDB it doesn't have any affect on what I was saying in my original post. That point was that the Greek word "mello" contains the idea of "certainty" that something is going to come to pass and doesn't mean "about to" in Acts 24: 15. The translation of that word depends on the context because in some places it is appropriate to translate it "about to". The word clearly has more than one meaning.

It doesn't matter to me, whether you call it the "best" lexicon or "one of the best" lexicons. When the person who wrote it is a unitarian who does not believe the Bible, then I am not going to trust it, ever! Case closed. You can dabble in the occult, but I am not.

I have no horse in this pony show. So, I will just quote Bauer, and then we will know!

Μέλλω (Mello) is the lexical form, which is what you are supposed to quote. μέλλειν is the infinitive in this verse which uses the following definition for Acts 24:15

Μέλλω 1. To take place at a future point of time and so to be subsequent to another event, be about to.

Τhis verb also has minor meanings of:

2. to be inevitable, be destined, inevitable. Eg. Matt 17:12; Luke 9:44; Romans 4:24, 8:13, 12:5 Heb. 1:14
3. The ptcp. (participle) is used as the absolute meaning (in the) future, to come. Matt:12:12; Eph. 1:21
4. delay Acts 22:16 with ou, meaning not delay; and in various Greek writings.

So, have at it. Not sure the Interlinear Scripture quoted above is right. JMHO.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

So all the right behinds get taken away?

Uh, no. It would be the 'right befores.'

 

[KJV1611]

(Mat 10:23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Any comments on this verse?

 

[tanakh]

Eschatology is not an essential doctrine of the faith. It is possible to agree to disagree on it. Heck, I can even get along with postmillennials, but I refuse to eat Post Toasties.

It depends on who you disagree with. I have actually been told I am not a Christian because I don't believe in a Pre Tribulation Rapture
Others I have known get quite angry about it.

 

[Locutus]

(Mat 10:23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Any comments on this verse?

They don't believe Jesus came - nor what he told the high priest and the kangaroo court:

Mark 14:60 The high priest stood up and came forward and questioned Jesus, saying, “Do You not answer? what is it that these men are testifying against You?”

Mark 14:61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, “are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?”

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

Mark 14:63 Tearing his clothes, the high priest *said, “What further need do we have of witnesses?

Didn't happen according to most - making Christ out to be wrong.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

It depends on who you disagree with. I have actually been told I am not a Christian because I don't believe in a Pre Tribulation Rapture
Others I have known get quite angry about it.

There is an element that will never be saved after the rapture because the rejected the gospel during the age of grace, preferring the pleasure of this world. It is written that a great delusion will come over them so that they can do no other than believe the lie of the antichrist.

But if you have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and are washed in the Blood you are saved. If not, believing in a rapture isn't going to somehow get you saved.

 

[Locutus]

This is an interesting link:

Full text:

http://www.biblicalfulfillment.org/id26.html

Present Infinitive–Denotes a process in action. A verb used as a noun.

Acts 11:28, “[Agabus] did signify through the Spirit a great dearth is about to be throughout all the world–which also came to pass...”

Acts 19:27, “the great goddess Artemis...her greatness is about to be brought down...”

Acts 23:30, “a plot about to be of the Jews.”

*Acts 24:15, “...about to be a rising again of the dead”

Acts 25:4, “and himself [Paul) is about speedily to go on thither,.”

Acts 27:10, “I perceive that with much hurt, and much damage.. the voyage is about to be”

Acts 28:6, “and they were expecting him to be about to be inflamed...”

Ask the Chief ------------>

 

[Quantrill]

'delirious' makes the mistake at the outset of calling pre-Trib Rapture and Pre-millennialism 'false doctrines'. Even if you disagree, they are not false doctrines.

I hold to these, pre-Trib Rapture and Pre-millennialism, as being true, but I do not consider the Amillennialist or those who disagree with the Rapture as holding to false doctrines. I just disagree with them concerning the end time events.

Will I go to the martyrs stake for believing in Jesus Christ? I certainly hope so, if the Lord gives me the strength. Will I go to the martyrs stake for my understanding of end time events? Not hardly.

Quantrill

 

[Locutus]

If it ain't true then it's false - simple.

 

[KJV1611]

They don't believe Jesus came - nor what he told the high priest and the kangaroo court:

Mark 14:60 The high priest stood up and came forward and questioned Jesus, saying, “Do You not answer? what is it that these men are testifying against You?”

Mark 14:61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, “are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?”

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

Mark 14:63 Tearing his clothes, the high priest *said, “What further need do we have of witnesses?

Didn't happen according to most - making Christ out to be wrong.

Since the high priest will see him coming that means the resurrection is before the second coming lol.

Also since “they will look upon him whom they pierced” is written in the book of Revelation that means it’s future and has to be a “double fulfillment” because we are told that was fulfilled at the cross.

It just proves people believe what they want to believe.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

If it ain't true then it's false - simple.

or, if you don't agree, it's false.

 

[tanakh]

So all the right behinds get taken away?

Depends on what direction you point to

 

[Locutus]

So we have Jesus coming before the disciples have time to evangelize Israel, we have

Since the high priest will see him coming that means the resurrection is before the second coming lol.

Also since “they will look upon him whom they pierced” is written in the book of Revelation that means it’s future and has to be a “double fulfillment” because we are told that was fulfilled at the cross.

It just proves people believe what they want to believe.

"means the resurrection is before the second coming lol."

Not necessarily 16 - Jesus resurrection was before the "second coming" for sure - I don't see it as a double fulfillment.

I think John in revelation is using John 19:37 to indicate that his revelation is based on events in Jerusalem during it's judgment in the 1st century and ties it in with the high priest's kangaroo court of Mark 14:60 etc.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

 

[KJV1611]

"means the resurrection is before the second coming lol."

Not necessarily 16 - Jesus resurrection was before the "second coming" for sure - I don't see it as a double fulfillment.

I think John in revelation is using John 19:37 to indicate that his revelation is based on events in Jerusalem during it's judgment in the 1st century and ties it in with the high priest's kangaroo court of Mark 14:60 etc.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

I was being facetious. 😎

 

[tanakh]

There is an element that will never be saved after the rapture because the rejected the gospel during the age of grace, preferring the pleasure of this world. It is written that a great delusion will come over them so that they can do no other than believe the lie of the antichrist.

But if you have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and are washed in the Blood you are saved. If not, believing in a rapture isn't going to somehow get you saved.

I know the Biblical teaching with regard to salvation. However there is within Dispensationalism a core belief in two major groups that are not raptured prior to the tribulation. The first is a mythical group called tribulation Saints that somehow dont make the full grade when Christ makes a secret visit seven years before the second coming,(some believe its three and a half years) The second group are believing Jews that are expected to go through the tribulation protected somewhere on earth. Petra in Jordan is a favorite location for this. The whole system is quite complex.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

tribulation Saints

There are no 'tribulation saints' prior to the rapture. They are all the people that make a decision to follow God after the time of Jacob's trouble begins. Many if not most of them will end up beheaded for their stand and are seen in the Book of Revelation under the altar.

The tribulation saints that survive are the ones to flee to Petra for the last part of the tribulation to hide from the Antichrist.

 

[preston39]

So we see just from the Scripture that I have used in this post (and there are many more I did not use) that it is impossible to have a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. The last day happens after the 1,000 years and not before like the premillennialist claims. This current age we are living in consists of the 1,000 years and little season of Satan in Rev 20. This period in Revelation 20 is symbolic. It comprises the entire time from the cross to His return. Then the heavens and earth are dissolved the same day he returns, which is the last day, and both wicked and righteous are raised on that day and judged at the Great White Throne judgment.



Once again, just to remind everyone reading this, and thank you for reading, I have posted this because I believe amillennialism to be correct biblically and premillennialism to be a dangerous lie.



People are looking for a pre-trib rapture, a seven year treaty between antichrist and Israel and a millennial kingdom of Christ on earth reigning from Jerusalem that are never coming. The devil has tricked much of the church to look for the wrong thing.



I have heard Christians say, “I will just get right with the Lord if I miss the rapture since I got 7 years.” But sadly they are deceived.
The Scripture says that day “comes as a thief” and “let him who is just be just still and him who is wicked be wicked still”. There will be no second chance.
Our God is holy and a consuming fire. Thankfully He is also rich in mercy and grace.
I hope this post is a blessing to someone. God bless.

My KJV 1611 edition tells me there is a pre-trib rapture followed by a 7 year trib. period culminating in the 2nd advent of Christ who will reign here on earth for 1 thousand years.
Non of your references changes that biblical teaching.

I am very happy for that....because otherwise how would you and I make the transition from this physical body life..... to our eternal new spiritual forever body life?

 

[tanakh]

There are no 'tribulation saints' prior to the rapture. They are all the people that make a decision to follow God after the time of Jacob's trouble begins. Many if not most of them will end up beheaded for their stand and are seen in the Book of Revelation under the altar.

The tribulation saints that survive are the ones to flee to Petra for the last part of the tribulation to hide from the Antichrist.

This is quite a complex system and there are a number of different views among those who adhere to it. I don,t hold with any of them

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

This is quite a complex system and there are a number of different views among those who adhere to it. I don,t hold with any of them

Okay, but you know Jesus as Saviour. So, when we both get to heaven you'll know that I'm right!