Abra Cadabra

[Hevosmies]

...what does that say about those claiming their miracle is of or from God....? Something to ponder....!!

If there are false teachers, that doesnt mean there are only false teachers. There are real ones too

If there are false miracles and false wonders, that doesnt mean there are no real ones.

"until that which is perfect has come" is NOT NOT NOT the Bible. There were still recorded miracles and prophets AFTER the bible was written in church history. Even Augustine wrote about them in the 400s! way after the Bible was written.

If only the devil could do miracles and God is now just completely DONE, that would be a STRANGE deal to say the least. The Holy Spirit is a living Spirit not a dead Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think if we look at it, While maybe some of the things the pagan people did could be miracles. Most of it was just science.

Snake charming was big in the day, Making a cnake appear to be a staff wuld have been easy for a person who has practiced the science. Even turning water to blood (or appearing) is just basic chemistry, I saw a program on the science channel once (I Know I know not the word) which showed how in those days, People whould use things much like magicians use today to make it appear that they had special powers from their Gd (using basic science or visual aids that made it appear they were miracles.

I understand hat my brtother DC is saying, But think about today, Lazer technology is getting to the point if placed in a satelite, make it apear a world leader can call fire from heaven at will. And remember, man in the world does nto understand science, so even to them even if they are elect. It could be possible to fool them into thinkingn they were from God

 

[garee]

I think it was probably some sort of conjuring trick, (there were a couple
of others too the magicians did). Maybe combined with some sort of
snake charming which people still do in the Middle East.

The thing that I was wondering is why did God pick that sign specifically,
of turning the snake into a stick etc. Why not something else that the magicians
couldn’t replicate. I think God deliberately picked a trick he knew the
magicians could do, so pharaoh would harden his heart.

If the Isrealites has been able to leave right from the start they would have just
left with their own belongings, not a lot. But because pharoah would not let them
go, it was all the more dramatic when he eventually did. Plus the Egyptians by that
time were practically begging them to leave and gave them everything they wanted and
needed.

Kind of like getting paid for all the years of work. They also needed those
provisions later to build the tabanacle.

Exodus 12:33-36 NKJV
[33] And the Egyptians urged the people, that they might send them
out of the land in haste. For they said, "We shall all be dead." [34]
So the people took their dough before it was leavened, having
their kneading bowls bound up in their clothes on their shoulders.

[35] Now the children of Israel had done according to the word of
Moses, and they had asked from the Egyptians articles of silver, articles
of gold, and clothing. [36] And the LORD had given the people favor in
the sight of the Egyptians, so that they granted them what they requested.
Thus they plundered the Egyptians.

Looking into the use of a serpent in others parables which hide the spiritual understanding from the lost. It can help us in the one in view (Exodus) as it relates to rod or staff and the use of the word "hand" as it seems to represent the "will" throughout scripture . The hand representing the will seems to be the main focus

First example of a serpent was in the garden when Satan the father of lies who has no form used a flesh and blood creature to create form. It took away the faith that came from hearing God who has no form to no effect. Stealing the unseen authority of God as the glory of God

The casting of the rods turning into living serpents would of been a way of establishing authority.

The second sign which was part of the first as one plan. It does not usually receive as much attention as the serpent. The second sign reveals who is the authority of "life and death" ( Sign of leprosy) the disease of no sensitively as if to say dead in ones trespasses and sin natural man .

Again both signs working as one were in view. ( And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign.)

Then like being born again the hand is placed back in the bosom was restored to life when taken out of the bosom. which is used to as the bosom Abraham to represent the invisible presence of God . A picture of the gospel

And the Lord said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow. And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his other flesh.And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign.Exodus 4:6-8

 

[Dino246]

Miracles are miracles nothing more and nothing less. God is nothing less.

It's not abnormal or unusual for God to perform miracles.

Too much emphasis is like not enough.

Take a breath enjoy a miracle . Have a baby enjoy a miracle. look into the eyes of a loved one, enjoy a miracle.Receive the gift of understanding form the word of God enjoy a miracle . etc

It is when men try to make them into a sign and wonder... or a sign that causes a wonder (faith issue) to confirm something that is not visible . This is where the rubber hits the road.

What in your view is the difference between a miracle and a sign/wonder?

 

[YDo]

So how were the miracles performed by the magicians to match the miracles done while Moses was dealing with the hardened heart of Pharaoh? I reckon that they were rigged to look like miracles, or that satan Hisself had a hand in this.

I know that it isn't clear in Exodus but was wondering if you guys have any more to add.

They were riggs just like the gifted illusionists that are millionaires today. David Blain, Kris Angel, who has an identical twin, and others.

Turning water into wine was an old trick in fact. Satan can't perform miracles. If he could it would be told to us in the Bible.

 

[dcontroversal]

If there are false teachers, that doesnt mean there are only false teachers. There are real ones too

If there are false miracles and false wonders, that doesnt mean there are no real ones.

"until that which is perfect has come" is NOT NOT NOT the Bible. There were still recorded miracles and prophets AFTER the bible was written in church history. Even Augustine wrote about them in the 400s! way after the Bible was written.

If only the devil could do miracles and God is now just completely DONE, that would be a STRANGE deal to say the least. The Holy Spirit is a living Spirit not a dead Spirit.

You are missing the point and no one said the Spirit is dead.........!!

 

[Poinsetta]

They tried to remember how God did it then to imitate it but they only have a limit. Have you seen a sorcerer bring someone back to life? Why because they themselves are dead and represent the dead guy satan.

 

[preacher4truth]

I found the answer to end all speculation:

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So how were the miracles performed by the magicians to match the miracles done while Moses was dealing with the hardened heart of Pharaoh? I reckon that they were rigged to look like miracles, or that satan Hisself had a hand in this.

I know that it isn't clear in Exodus but was wondering if you guys have any more to add.

Abracadabra? Why not hocus pocus my friend?

 

[preacher4truth]

I turned my truck into a tree once. I thought of all kinds of lying wonders to tell my insurance agent.

 

[Deade]

If there are false teachers, that doesnt mean there are only false teachers. There are real ones too

If there are false miracles and false wonders, that doesnt mean there are no real ones.

"until that which is perfect has come" is NOT NOT NOT the Bible. There were still recorded miracles and prophets AFTER the bible was written in church history. Even Augustine wrote about them in the 400s! way after the Bible was written.

If only the devil could do miracles and God is now just completely DONE, that would be a STRANGE deal to say the least. The Holy Spirit is a living Spirit not a dead Spirit.

I agree, this says it all. I will add the Holy Spirit is not only alive, He will also communicate with you. That is why the elect cannot be deceived, because they are warned.

 

[CharliRenee]

They were riggs just like the gifted illusionists that are millionaires today. David Blain, Kris Angel, who has an identical twin, and others.

Turning water into wine was an old trick in fact. Satan can't perform miracles. If he could it would be told to us in the Bible.

I sit here trying to decide which reaction I want to give. You see, I definitely considered it rigs too, but how... it isn't made clear. We do know that magicians of today are able to do rigs not miracles, that magic in the sense of magician is done with smoking mirrors, eh?

Then Pharaoh also called for the wise men and the sorcerers, and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same with their secret arts.
Exodus 7:11 NASB

Also wondering after some of the comments...God used the dark power to help harden Pharoahs heart. You know allowing the magicians and sorcerers to have their 15 minutes of fame played into God's ultimate plan.

Secret arts are what exactly, I suppose.

So you have me back to pondering this again, lol.

But I also consider these verses...

Satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. Satan is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7).

and...
For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:24 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/mat.24.24.NASB


What about the pharisees who said...

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles

I realize that doesn't say how they performed them but if God did not, then it must have been satan's power utilized, right?

So I think I know the most accurate reaction to consider is useful because u had me doing more research in the word. Thank you.

 

[CharliRenee]

I found the answer to end all speculation:

Hahahaha, excellent...HILARIOUS!!!!

 

[CharliRenee]

I agree, this says it all. I will add the Holy Spirit is not only alive, He will also communicate with you. That is why the elect cannot be deceived, because they are warned.

Wait doesn't He say though... if possible, oh wait, epiphany alert... it could be even if it were possible, hmmmm

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I sit here trying to decide which reaction I want to give. You see, I definitely considered it rigs too, but how... it isn't made clear. We do know that magicians of today are able to do rigs not miracles, that magic in the sense of magician is done with smoking mirrors, eh?

Then Pharaoh also called for the wise men and the sorcerers, and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same with their secret arts.
Exodus 7:11 NASB

Also wondering after some of the comments...God used the dark power to help harden Pharoahs heart. You know allowing the magicians and sorcerers to have their 15 minutes of fame played into God's ultimate plan.

Secret arts are what exactly, I suppose.

So you have me back to pondering this again, lol.

But I also consider these verses...

Satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. Satan is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7).

and...
For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:24 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/mat.24.24.NASB


What about the pharisees who said...

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles

I realize that doesn't say how they performed them but if God did not, then it must have been satan's power utilized, right?

So I think I know the most accurate reaction to consider is useful because u had me doing more research in the word. Thank you.

I see them as legit magic tricks. Simon Magus tricked people with sorcery in Acts 8. The witch at Endor brought back Samuel. We see that the anti-Christ will deceive people as well. Those guys in Egypt did legit magic tricks through Satan.

 

[CharliRenee]

Abracadabra? Why not hocus pocus my friend?

Hahaha why not indeed

 

[CharliRenee]

Yeah, I know we are not to be partial...but... but...but, lol, kind and merciful Brothers and Sisters who make me laugh are my most favorite!!! Shame on me, does being honest about it count, lol? 😁😉😆

 

[dcontroversal]

Wait doesn't He say though... if possible, oh wait, epiphany alert... it could be even if it were possible, hmmmm

Why would Jesus WARN the elect to not be deceived IF THEY COULD NOT BE DECEIVED.....

COMMON SENSE and LOGICAL REASONING DICTATES what exactly.....

Why warn anyone of anything if it is impossible for what they are being warned about to happen....

Geesh....it is not that difficult

 

[YDo]

I sit here trying to decide which reaction I want to give. You see, I definitely considered it rigs too, but how... it isn't made clear. We do know that magicians of today are able to do rigs not miracles, that magic in the sense of magician is done with smoking mirrors, eh?

Then Pharaoh also called for the wise men and the sorcerers, and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same with their secret arts.
Exodus 7:11 NASB

Also wondering after some of the comments...God used the dark power to help harden Pharoahs heart. You know allowing the magicians and sorcerers to have their 15 minutes of fame played into God's ultimate plan.

Secret arts are what exactly, I suppose.

So you have me back to pondering this again, lol.

But I also consider these verses...

Satan uses supernatural schemes and tactics to overcome his victim. Satan is a supernatural being with great power to deceive (Job 1:7).

and...
For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:24 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/mat.24.24.NASB


What about the pharisees who said...

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles

I realize that doesn't say how they performed them but if God did not, then it must have been satan's power utilized, right?

So I think I know the most accurate reaction to consider is useful because u had me doing more research in the word. Thank you.

Maybe look to Matthew 24 where Jesus talked about false Christs. They would perform signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect. But do not believe them, he said.

I can't recall the verse but it is in the Old Testament. A prophet of God intended to prove the pagan gods the people in this one city worshiped were dead idols with no power. While the king who defended these practices said that the gods must be real because they would eat the food offerings the people would leave them in the temple of these gods.
Again, I can't recall the prophet name but I recall all this happening so bear with me.
The prophet challenged the people and said he could prove their gods were fake. He then unebeknownst to the priests that served the temple sprinkled a very fine dusting of flour on the floor after the worshipers had left yet another serving of food for thee gods.

The next morning when the temple doors were unlocked the people and the prophet could see that sure enough the food was gone. But , there were human footprints left behind in the fine powder on the floor. They followed them to a secret passage that led to the priests who were the ones eating the donated foods.

I don't say Satan can't influence his chosen and give them the ideas so they can deceive people. I just don't think Satan can play God and accomplish for his motives the same miracles God can. Satan's authority as I remember the teaching is limited on earth but it is God who allows him that.

I think that is why Jesus warned against false prophets and those who would claim to be him after he went back to Heaven.

I'm editing to add this too. Abra-Kadabra is Hebrew isn't it?
Wasn't there something in the Bible related to king Solomon and that word and his magic?

 

[dcontroversal]

I think if we look at it, While maybe some of the things the pagan people did could be miracles. Most of it was just science.

Snake charming was big in the day, Making a cnake appear to be a staff wuld have been easy for a person who has practiced the science. Even turning water to blood (or appearing) is just basic chemistry, I saw a program on the science channel once (I Know I know not the word) which showed how in those days, People whould use things much like magicians use today to make it appear that they had special powers from their Gd (using basic science or visual aids that made it appear they were miracles.

I understand hat my brtother DC is saying, But think about today, Lazer technology is getting to the point if placed in a satelite, make it apear a world leader can call fire from heaven at will. And remember, man in the world does nto understand science, so even to them even if they are elect. It could be possible to fool them into thinkingn they were from God

My view boils down to a simple principle....WHY warn someone about something that is IMPOSSIBLE and can in NO WAY HAPPEN......?

The Greek does not say it is Impossible, difficult yes...BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE HENCE THE WARNING ahead of time!