Not By Works

[Matthew55]

What IS He teaching?

John 15:1-6 JESUS SAID:
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "


1. Who is the vine?
2. What does "take away" mean?
3. What does "abide" mean?
4. What happens to the branch that does not bear fruit?
5. Who are the branches?
6. Can we do anything without the vine?
7. If we do not abide...what happens to us?

1. Who is the vine?
Jesus
2. What does "take away" mean?
You are cut off from the vine/Jesus and burned as stuble. IOW you lose your salvation.
3. What does "abide" mean?
It means to be with Christ. IOW to do those things that Jesus does, so that he will abide with you. If you do not those things that Jesus does, he will not abide with you no matter how much you say that you believe in him.
4. What happens to the branch that does not bear fruit?
It is taken off the vine. It loses salvation.
5. Who are the branches?
People that were saved and are attached to the true vine. As it says, they are in Jesus. So they are people in Jesus, saved by Jesus to do the works that he has prepared for them to do. That is why they are in the vine.
6' Can we do anything without the vine?
No
7. If we do not abide, what happens to us?
If we do not continue to abide, we will not be in Jesus and we will not produce fruit. Therefore, we will be cut off the vine and lose our salvation.

Good questions.

 

[TruthTalk]

I've said this several times.. For those who don't want the chat thing,
Robo says to PM him and let him know and he can turn it off for you.

Thank you I did not know and many people thank you....

 

[GodsGrace101]

@TruthTalk

This will be in reply to your post no. 83,470
in which you posted many verses that you believe OSAS to be true.
Here is why they are NOT true.... One by one...



"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"
Romans 8:16
IF we have been born from above and are children of God, this is true.

John 5:24 - "has eternal life"
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me 'has eternal life'. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
We have eternal life IF we HEAR the word of God and BELIEVE in HIM.



John 3:36 - "has eternal life"
Whoever believes in the Son 'has eternal life'; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Right again. Whoever BELIEVES, present tense, and whoever OBEYS.



Ephesians 2:8-9 - "have been saved"
For by grace you 'have been saved' through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Every church I know of believes we are saved by faith...this is justification. An act of God whereby we are declared innocent.


John 10:28 - "never parish"
I give them eternal life, and they will 'never perish', and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Correct. For as long as we ABIDE IN CHRIST. See John 15:1-6
Nothing can snatch us out of the hand of God,,,,except our own free will decision to stop making Him our Lord.


1 John 5:13 - "that you may "know" that you have "eternal life."
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God 'that you may know that you have eternal life."
Correct. "to you WHO BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God.
Again....present tense. For as long as we believe, we have eternal life. Now in spirit and soul...and at the resurrection, in body. Which is immortality.

Romans 8:1 - "no condemnation"
There is therefore now 'no condemnation' for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Amen. God loves those who love His Son. Those IN JESUS will not be judged and are not in God's wrath.

Romans 10:13 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord 'will be saved.”
This requires much more time. Calling on the name of the Lord is not enough.
Not those who call Lord Lord, but those who do the will of My Father. Mathew 7:21
Also James 1:22...be not only hearers of the word...but doers of the word.

John 3:16 - "have eternal life"
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but 'have eternal life."
Yes. Whosoever BELIEVES in Him.....Again Present tense.



Romans 10:13-14 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
I don't understand why you posted this...

John 10:27-30 - "I give them eternal life"
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 'I give them eternal life', and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
No one will snatch the sheep out of God's hands.
But the lost sheep DID wander away, didn't he?
And could you show me where we lost our free will to walk out of His hand??


John 6:37 - "I will never cast out"
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me 'I will never cast out."
Amen. Jesus turns no one away!

John 14:16 - our advocate "The Holy Spirit", will be with us "forever"
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and 'be with you forever.
The Holy Spirit will be here on earth forever for whoever wants to make good use of Him.
He also will not abandon us who desire to abide with Him.

Romans 8:38-39 - "nothing will separate us from the love of God."
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jesus did say that some believe for a while and then abandon their faith.
Luke 8:13
Luke 15:24


Now....
If I list the same number of verses showing how the N.T. writers, and Jesus, believed we could become lost again...would you be willing to explain each one?

 

[GodsGrace101]

1. Who is the vine?
Jesus
2. What does "take away" mean?
You are cut off from the vine/Jesus and burned as stuble. IOW you lose your salvation.
3. What does "abide" mean?
It means to be with Christ. IOW to do those things that Jesus does, so that he will abide with you. If you do not those things that Jesus does, he will not abide with you no matter how much you say that you believe in him.
4. What happens to the branch that does not bear fruit?
It is taken off the vine. It loses salvation.
5. Who are the branches?
People that were saved and are attached to the true vine. As it says, they are in Jesus. So they are people in Jesus, saved by Jesus to do the works that he has prepared for them to do. That is why they are in the vine.
6' Can we do anything without the vine?
No
7. If we do not abide, what happens to us?
If we do not continue to abide, we will not be in Jesus and we will not produce fruit. Therefore, we will be cut off the vine and lose our salvation.

Good questions.

Good answers.

Should we not all know the same answers since they're so simple?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Psalm 23:6
Surely your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.

God's Eternal Salvation is nothing less than forever; I will follow what the bible say's about; "Assurance of Salvation", not your cheap imitation of what you believe.

Most protestant denominations teach the security of the believer you are completely wrong about that.

Here are just a few verses that support, "The Security of the Believer", your gospel is as fake as a 3 dollar bill and everyone knows it.

Assurance of Salvation

"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"
Romans 8:16 ​

John 5:24 - "has eternal life"
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me 'has eternal life'. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 3:36 - "has eternal life"
Whoever believes in the Son 'has eternal life'; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Ephesians 2:8-9 - "have been saved"
For by grace you 'have been saved' through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 10:28 - "never parish"
I give them eternal life, and they will 'never perish', and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
1 John 5:13 - "that you may "know" that you have "eternal life."
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God 'that you may know that you have eternal life."
Romans 8:1 - "no condemnation"
There is therefore now 'no condemnation' for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:13 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord 'will be saved.”
John 3:16 - "have eternal life"
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but
'have eternal life."
Romans 10:13-14 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
John 10:27-30 - "I give them eternal life"
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 'I give them eternal life', and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
John 6:37 - "I will never cast out"
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me 'I will never cast out."
John 14:16 - our advocate "The Holy Spirit", will be with us "forever"
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and 'be with you forever.
Romans 8:38-39 - "nothing will separate us from the love of God."
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Was it necessary to say "the cheap imitation" of what I teach?
Do I insult you?

I just answered all of the above.
There are 14.

I could post many more verses showing how faith can be lost.
Could you reply to me, as I asked you in my previous post just before this one?

And could you please list the protestant churches that DO believe in assurance of salvation?

I'm sure you'll find that they are the minority.
Could this possibly mean that more theologians --- those that study the nature of God ---
believe it IS possible to lose what we had??

 

[tourist]

Now I need a Whopper, onion rings and a strawberry shake with whipped cream topped with a cherry.

 

[tourist]

I've said this several times.. For those who don't want the chat thing, Robo says to PM him and let him know and he can turn it off for you.

Robo read a post of mine saying I thought that it was annoying and he turned it off for me.

 

[Matthew55]

Psalm 23:6
Surely your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.

God's Eternal Salvation is nothing less than forever; I will follow what the bible say's about; "Assurance of Salvation", not your cheap imitation of what you believe.

Most protestant denominations teach the security of the believer you are completely wrong about that.

Here are just a few verses that support, "The Security of the Believer", your gospel is as fake as a 3 dollar bill and everyone knows it.

Assurance of Salvation

"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"
Romans 8:16 ​

John 5:24 - "has eternal life"
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me 'has eternal life'. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 3:36 - "has eternal life"
Whoever believes in the Son 'has eternal life'; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Ephesians 2:8-9 - "have been saved"
For by grace you 'have been saved' through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 10:28 - "never parish"
I give them eternal life, and they will 'never perish', and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
1 John 5:13 - "that you may "know" that you have "eternal life."
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God 'that you may know that you have eternal life."
Romans 8:1 - "no condemnation"
There is therefore now 'no condemnation' for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:13 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord 'will be saved.”
John 3:16 - "have eternal life"
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but
'have eternal life."
Romans 10:13-14 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
John 10:27-30 - "I give them eternal life"
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 'I give them eternal life', and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
John 6:37 - "I will never cast out"
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me 'I will never cast out."
John 14:16 - our advocate "The Holy Spirit", will be with us "forever"
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and 'be with you forever.
Romans 8:38-39 - "nothing will separate us from the love of God."
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You state that MOST of the protestant denominations believe in OSAS. So not all apparently. So if not even all protestant denominations believe in OSAS, how can you possibly say, "your gospel is as fake as a 3 dollar bill and EVERYONE KNOWS IT".

Obviously everyone does not know it, except those churches that do believe it. And that is certainly not all Christian churches.

This forum is a good representation of the Christian churches, and about 1/2 believe OSAS and about 1/2 do not. So watch out what you call "fake gospel".
"

 

[stillness]

What IS He teaching?

John 15:1-6 JESUS SAID:
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "


1. Who is the vine?
2. What does "take away" mean?
3. What does "abide" mean?
4. What happens to the branch that does not bear fruit?
5. Who are the branches?
6. Can we do anything without the vine?
7. If we do not abide...what happens to us?

Dear God's Grace, the dead branches are burned dosent mean the soul is lost, they will be saved but as through fire, the dead branches are dead works or branches not bearing fruit, you know in the fall the vine dresser is ruthless with the vine and strangely enough the root is practically all that is left, if we had been relying on our works to bring someone closer to the light and there is no fruit it goes through the fire but you shall not be burned, and yes your safe in his hands as I'm told and even by those with no works, no branches, where can the fruit be. But the good thing about the vine, branches keep growing so fast and that's why it has to be pruned so that were nor all branches no fruit. fruit is in time alone in prayer.

 

[dcontroversal]

if you say that it's false, fine. However, I would like you to provide Scripture to back up your claims.

Read the thread and the bible.........it becomes all too obvious for those with eyes open and honest...

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen and Amen and Amen!
I've been asking this forever....

A lot of OPINION
NO scripture.

AGAIN FRAN you lie......this has been covered numerous times........and every time you say I post no scripture you lose your salvation according to your dogma.....

 

[dcontroversal]

HAHAHHAHAH yep...............Burger King Theology and Smorgasbord Christianity........the norm for many.......I see the resident deceiver is posting that I do not post scripture again......for one that believes she can lose salvation she sure plays with fire a lot.....

 

[stillness]

if any one needs verse reference when you copy and paste on google and ad the word bible it will give you the bible reference, its the reason I stop mentioning references. When you shall walk through the fire you shall not be burned, I will cut and paste on google and give the reference, this is just to give an explanation about eternal security, we all taste death and hell one time or other, except for some women and children, I will have to give you a reference for that as well.

Isaiah 43:12 "When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze."
The waters represent the nations that would have swallowed us up, pity those who think this only applies to the Jews, are we not the branches of the vine. The fire the burning desire of hell and confusion that would destroy us. You have a choice of words death and destruction the fire and the grave... but it's this life as well, this is where we chose where our treasure is.

1Corintians 3:12 "If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire."

Revelation 2:24 "But I also have a message for the rest of you in Thyatira who have not followed this false teaching ('deeper truths,' as they call them--depths of Satan, actually). I will ask nothing more of you except to hold on to what you have until I come."
Addressed to those who have not learned to desire control from witchcraft.

I have not been careful to look for the best translation, I usually try so hard and find am so little heard and that those who have ears to hear will hear. You are all blessed of God our saviour, having so much to be thankful for that we should morn for having wasted so much opportunity.

 

[stillness]

AGAIN FRAN you lie......this has been covered numerous times........and every time you say I post no scripture you lose your salvation according to your dogma.....

She is forgiving your sins but are you?

 

[stillness]

She will only be aroud so long for you to beg for forgiveness, do you desire a crown or not.
I'm not the one you need to answer to

 

[dcontroversal]

She is forgiving your sins but are you?

When she comes clean, admits and asks for forgiveness I have no problem doing that......search the thread and go to the last 4 or 5 pages when she was here as Fran and she how she acted and treated everyone and how she set out vindictively and it a manner to get the thread shut down........she came back while breaking the rules and NOW constantly accuses me of not posting scriptures just because I do not post book, chapter and or verse....95% of the time I direct quote or reference scripture and MANY have called her out on this blatant lie.....and YET she is still doing it.........here is a scriptural reference...

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death

 

[dcontroversal]

She will only be aroud so long for you to beg for forgiveness, do you desire a crown or not.
I'm not the one you need to answer to

if you are talking to me with the above you must be dense....I will not need to beg her for anything.....

 

[stillness]

I'm done praying for you, bro, I need to let you go, just like you say dead branches cant help you, I cant be trying to help you against your will its a dead work, and need to produce fruit in a journey alone with my Friend and Saviour

 

[stillness]

When she comes clean, admits and asks for forgiveness I have no problem doing that......search the thread and go to the last 4 or 5 pages when she was here as Fran and she how she acted and treated everyone and how she set out vindictively and it a manner to get the thread shut down........she came back while breaking the rules and NOW constantly accuses me of not posting scriptures just because I do not post book, chapter and or verse....95% of the time I direct quote or reference scripture and MANY have called her out on this blatant lie.....and YET she is still doing it.........here is a scriptural reference...

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death

Go ahead and bear your own judgment. I only read the bold part

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm done praying for you, bro, I need to let you go, just like you say dead branches cant help you, I cant be trying to help you against your will its a dead work, and need to produce fruit in a journey alone with my Friend and Saviour

Good......now pray for the one that really needs it....the one that peddles a losable salvation, that must be maintained because the sacrifice and blood of Christ is not sufficient.....you know the one....the one you defend while opposing the truth you purport to uphold....