Not By Works
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Bubman? 
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Exactly.
The destiny of believers is not threatened by their acts of sin, even if they were to fall into grievous sin and stay in that condition until they die. That is what grace is all about. It is "unmerited" and remains so - forever.
Jesus is our surety. He guarantees our victory by supplying what is needed when we default. He remains faithful to His promises even when we are faithless (2 Timothy 2:11).
It is only our rewards that will be affected by our work or lack of work. And we can expect chastening from the Lord when we stray. And that chastening is proof positive we remain sons and daughters.
The destiny of believers is not threatened by their acts of sin, even if they were to fall into grievous sin and stay in that condition until they die. That is what grace is all about. It is "unmerited" and remains so - forever.
Jesus is our surety. He guarantees our victory by supplying what is needed when we default. He remains faithful to His promises even when we are faithless (2 Timothy 2:11).
It is only our rewards that will be affected by our work or lack of work. And we can expect chastening from the Lord when we stray. And that chastening is proof positive we remain sons and daughters.
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As Paul told the romans they used to be slaves to sin,(romans6:17) and he stated sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace(rom6:14) if Paul the christian is being written about in romans7:14-24 that gives a couple of problems, for the person mentioned in those verses is a slave to sin(verse14) A slave always has a master, therefore sin was the persons master and he was sins slave.
So if Paul the Christian is being written about in those verses, he is writing to people who live more holy lives than he does. And Paul cannot live up to his core message of law of grace. For he is a slave to sin whilst living under grace, something he tells the romans is not the case for the believer under grace, that is the case under law.
So if Paul the Christian is being written about in those verses, he is writing to people who live more holy lives than he does. And Paul cannot live up to his core message of law of grace. For he is a slave to sin whilst living under grace, something he tells the romans is not the case for the believer under grace, that is the case under law.
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This is one line from an entire letter, that is not how we obtain truth from scripture.
John very clearly defines in his letters "righteousness" is the righteousness imputed to us through Christ.
The law is the measure whereby righteousness is measured.
However, Christians are not under the law for righteousness.
Instead, it's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
I was not disparaging Catholics, I was disparaging their doctrine and to disparage their doctrine is to let the doctrine off easy actually!!!
John very clearly defines in his letters "righteousness" is the righteousness imputed to us through Christ.
The law is the measure whereby righteousness is measured.
However, Christians are not under the law for righteousness.
Instead, it's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
I was not disparaging Catholics, I was disparaging their doctrine and to disparage their doctrine is to let the doctrine off easy actually!!!
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Um, they don't start out as sons!
In the parable, the Prodigal started as a son, went away as a son, and came back as a son.
They whole point to the story is one can indeed wander away from God and yet will always remain His child.
The Bible says we are not children of God by creation, only by adoption.
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Why is this a debate that lives on and on?
He calls us...He saves us...He keeps us and we know that because we walk in His ways. When we stumble, and we do, we have His strength and Mercy to build us back up, working within us for His Glory, because He loves us very much.
What is works, in the eyes of many? Is believing a work? Is trusting a work?
Jesus died for us, not just so we could be squared away but so we could be of use to God, saving us from our own selves.
2 Corinthians 9:8 isn't about works or about salvation but what happens through salvation.
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;
2 Corinthians 9:8 NASB
Do I think perserverence plays a role, do I think our faith should be seen in all that we do, don't do, say, and think, appealing for the cause of God...Yes. Do I think it possible without Him...No.
Our faith, period, brings us home and also pays Him forward in our thoughts and actions.
His work = Faith = Salvation = more of His working within = sanctification to walk with Him, in His ways, which produces more faith, not more salvation.
I just think we never want to devalue His work within, transforming us to His Glory, in all ways. We can not earn salvation but our salvation does produce evidence of Him dwelling within. How else could we examine our hearts, or spirits, or anything if salvation was not evident. I do not believe we should strive, because the great I Am thrives.
Resting in Him, though, requires walking with Him, and I know that I need Him desperately to do so.
I have mulled this over and over, trying to find harmony within all the scriptures and I finally found the answer, lol, it's all about Him, we can't do any of it without Him. And with Him, we get to have a life and purpose worth living. We get to work for God. We don't have to!!!
I use to feel I needed to pick a side on this debate, lol. I can be quite foolish sometimes. The only thing I need to pick is Him and His Glory in our lives.
He calls us...He saves us...He keeps us and we know that because we walk in His ways. When we stumble, and we do, we have His strength and Mercy to build us back up, working within us for His Glory, because He loves us very much.
What is works, in the eyes of many? Is believing a work? Is trusting a work?
Jesus died for us, not just so we could be squared away but so we could be of use to God, saving us from our own selves.
2 Corinthians 9:8 isn't about works or about salvation but what happens through salvation.
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;
2 Corinthians 9:8 NASB
Do I think perserverence plays a role, do I think our faith should be seen in all that we do, don't do, say, and think, appealing for the cause of God...Yes. Do I think it possible without Him...No.
Our faith, period, brings us home and also pays Him forward in our thoughts and actions.
His work = Faith = Salvation = more of His working within = sanctification to walk with Him, in His ways, which produces more faith, not more salvation.
I just think we never want to devalue His work within, transforming us to His Glory, in all ways. We can not earn salvation but our salvation does produce evidence of Him dwelling within. How else could we examine our hearts, or spirits, or anything if salvation was not evident. I do not believe we should strive, because the great I Am thrives.
Resting in Him, though, requires walking with Him, and I know that I need Him desperately to do so.
I have mulled this over and over, trying to find harmony within all the scriptures and I finally found the answer, lol, it's all about Him, we can't do any of it without Him. And with Him, we get to have a life and purpose worth living. We get to work for God. We don't have to!!!
I use to feel I needed to pick a side on this debate, lol. I can be quite foolish sometimes. The only thing I need to pick is Him and His Glory in our lives.
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I do not know who you think you are, but if you think i am going to play your childish games you are mistaken
I made a comment about abraham being saved in gen 15, your reply was what if he did not offer his son,
My response was that God knew he was foing to do it (making your question invalid, because there was no way he would not do it, if god had known his faith was dead, and he never would have responded by works, then god never would have saved him in gen 15
Your rsponse is i did not understand what you were saying
So you can either show me how i misunderstood, or move on, because i am done, you can play games with someone else.
I made a comment about abraham being saved in gen 15, your reply was what if he did not offer his son,
My response was that God knew he was foing to do it (making your question invalid, because there was no way he would not do it, if god had known his faith was dead, and he never would have responded by works, then god never would have saved him in gen 15
Your rsponse is i did not understand what you were saying
So you can either show me how i misunderstood, or move on, because i am done, you can play games with someone else.
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What we are trying to say (and I think Robert Wilkin said it best) is that perseverance/good works are about winning the Lord's approval, not His acceptance. He accepted us as His children when we believed in Him for eternal life. We can never lose that. But we will only enjoy His approval if we live our lives, by faith, in a manner pleasing to Him.
This life is a testing ground for the life to come. The Lord wishes for believers to prove themselves worthy of rewards and positions of rulership in His kingdom (Revelation 3:4-5). We will win what Paul calls a "prize," which is the "imperishable crown" (1 Corinthians 9:24-25).
But believers still have the free will to resist doing good works by giving in to the old nature still within us. The nature that now wars against our new nature in Christ. That invites chastisement from the Lord. Which includes taking us home before our time.
Our main point is that we will remain God's children despite our behavior, whether good or bad.
This life is a testing ground for the life to come. The Lord wishes for believers to prove themselves worthy of rewards and positions of rulership in His kingdom (Revelation 3:4-5). We will win what Paul calls a "prize," which is the "imperishable crown" (1 Corinthians 9:24-25).
But believers still have the free will to resist doing good works by giving in to the old nature still within us. The nature that now wars against our new nature in Christ. That invites chastisement from the Lord. Which includes taking us home before our time.
Our main point is that we will remain God's children despite our behavior, whether good or bad.
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Hey sis, the debate has been going on since cain an abel, the human righteous wants to give the fruit of our labor, as payment for sin thus rejecting the grace of grace if God. the desperate sinner realises he can offer nothing
The religious responds as cain responded to abel, and as the pharisee responded to christ, Thats why it is so heated, and will always be,
Unlike other topics though, this one is not one to just pass them off peoples eternity is at stake.
The religious responds as cain responded to abel, and as the pharisee responded to christ, Thats why it is so heated, and will always be,
Unlike other topics though, this one is not one to just pass them off peoples eternity is at stake.
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Do you believe the bible gives a fence to straddle when you have one that blends works in with faith to gain, keep or maintain salvation as opposed to one who believes it is faith and faith alone that saves a man eternally?
Show me the fence.......and make no mistake....this thread has two diametrically opposing views...one is correct the other leads to hell....and by default not making a stand makes a stand...............one of the reason churches are so screwed up today....people that will not make a stand for the sake of unity.....
Show me the fence.......and make no mistake....this thread has two diametrically opposing views...one is correct the other leads to hell....and by default not making a stand makes a stand...............one of the reason churches are so screwed up today....people that will not make a stand for the sake of unity.....
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That's not what I believe. I come from faith parents, grandparents and down the line. I vaguely remember being ill as a child, and relatives gathered around my bed. I was healed by those prayers. Was badly burned then around the age of 5 and my grandmother was taking care of me. Parents both worked. No car, no phone at the time, and she prayed for me. I had no pain. I remember the skin hanging on those burns but no pain.
I could relate many experiences of life and God healing. But, also have had health problems not entirely taken away either.
The Lord has never stopped confiming His Word preached by signs and wonders. People have trusted more in medicine, not saying this is bad either. I believe the medical fields advances has also been blessings from the Lord. The doctors and nurses aren't the enemy as some Christians have portrayed them.
I could relate many experiences of life and God healing. But, also have had health problems not entirely taken away either.
The Lord has never stopped confiming His Word preached by signs and wonders. People have trusted more in medicine, not saying this is bad either. I believe the medical fields advances has also been blessings from the Lord. The doctors and nurses aren't the enemy as some Christians have portrayed them.
"born again from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED eternally by the word of GOD"
^Can @Argueless @GodsGrace101 @lightbearer or someone else TACKLE this and tell us how do you combine that verse with your IKEA DIY-salvation idea?
^Can @Argueless @GodsGrace101 @lightbearer or someone else TACKLE this and tell us how do you combine that verse with your IKEA DIY-salvation idea?
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