Sabath
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Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Mat 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Old Testament the sabbath was a physical day of rest in which they could not work for gain for themselves, although they could help if it had to do with a need of another, or something like if there was an animal stuck in a hole, they could help the owner get it out, which Jesus said He labored, and did good even on the sabbath.
A person could not work for personal gain on the sabbath day, but could labor for their needs if something happened to themselves, a family member, or another person, or their animal that was a need that had to be tended to at that time, such as them being hurt, or in desperate need of food, or clothing, and the such.
For there is no time out when it comes to a need for God loves people.
The sabbath day was on the last day of the week Saturday.
Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Which this is another example of how a person's needs can violate something that normally they cannot do by the law, for the shewbread was only for the priests, but David ate of it with people that were with them because they had a need for they were legitimately hungry.
Although there was a third part of the temple that David would of been in serious trouble if he did enter, and this would be from God, and that is the Holy of Holies, for that was only for the High Priest, and there was no reason for David to go in there.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
In the New Testament it is spiritual, and the heaven has been tainted by the fallen angels, and earth has been tainted by the rebellious, and they are physical so they shall pass away, and there will be a new heaven, and a new earth where sin has never been, and sin will never be, and sin and rebellion will never come up again, and the angels and saints will feel as if they have always there and nowhere else, for the former heaven and earth shall not be remembered, nor come to mind for they are associated with sin and rebellion.
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way for they were contrary to us that they had no bearing on spiritual salvation which includes the physical sabbath day, and when a person has the Holy Spirit it is a spiritual sabbath, a spiritual rest, and the are part of the kingdom of God, and belong to the new heaven and new earth that Jesus went away to prepare which is spiritual.
Old Testament, physical sabbath to pertain to this physical earth, New Testament, spiritual sabbath to pertain to the spiritual earth that Jesus went away to prepare, the New Jerusalem.
But God said some would not hear but would say keep the physical sabbath day, as it is also today that many say keep the physical sabbath day, but the Bible says do not let them judge you concerning that for a person with the Spirit does not have to give heed to the physical sabbath day in the New Testament times.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
There is debate that the saints should gather on Saturday, or the saints should gather on Sunday, to worship God, but when the Church started the saints gathered every day in the temple praising God, for if there is no more physical sabbath, and it is a spiritual sabbath by the Spirit then every day would be a legitimate day for the saints to come together and worship God, although the saints can always worship God everyday whether Old or New Testament, but Saturday was set aside in the Old, and everyday it is a sabbath day in the New.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Mat 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Old Testament the sabbath was a physical day of rest in which they could not work for gain for themselves, although they could help if it had to do with a need of another, or something like if there was an animal stuck in a hole, they could help the owner get it out, which Jesus said He labored, and did good even on the sabbath.
A person could not work for personal gain on the sabbath day, but could labor for their needs if something happened to themselves, a family member, or another person, or their animal that was a need that had to be tended to at that time, such as them being hurt, or in desperate need of food, or clothing, and the such.
For there is no time out when it comes to a need for God loves people.
The sabbath day was on the last day of the week Saturday.
Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Which this is another example of how a person's needs can violate something that normally they cannot do by the law, for the shewbread was only for the priests, but David ate of it with people that were with them because they had a need for they were legitimately hungry.
Although there was a third part of the temple that David would of been in serious trouble if he did enter, and this would be from God, and that is the Holy of Holies, for that was only for the High Priest, and there was no reason for David to go in there.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
In the New Testament it is spiritual, and the heaven has been tainted by the fallen angels, and earth has been tainted by the rebellious, and they are physical so they shall pass away, and there will be a new heaven, and a new earth where sin has never been, and sin will never be, and sin and rebellion will never come up again, and the angels and saints will feel as if they have always there and nowhere else, for the former heaven and earth shall not be remembered, nor come to mind for they are associated with sin and rebellion.
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way for they were contrary to us that they had no bearing on spiritual salvation which includes the physical sabbath day, and when a person has the Holy Spirit it is a spiritual sabbath, a spiritual rest, and the are part of the kingdom of God, and belong to the new heaven and new earth that Jesus went away to prepare which is spiritual.
Old Testament, physical sabbath to pertain to this physical earth, New Testament, spiritual sabbath to pertain to the spiritual earth that Jesus went away to prepare, the New Jerusalem.
But God said some would not hear but would say keep the physical sabbath day, as it is also today that many say keep the physical sabbath day, but the Bible says do not let them judge you concerning that for a person with the Spirit does not have to give heed to the physical sabbath day in the New Testament times.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
There is debate that the saints should gather on Saturday, or the saints should gather on Sunday, to worship God, but when the Church started the saints gathered every day in the temple praising God, for if there is no more physical sabbath, and it is a spiritual sabbath by the Spirit then every day would be a legitimate day for the saints to come together and worship God, although the saints can always worship God everyday whether Old or New Testament, but Saturday was set aside in the Old, and everyday it is a sabbath day in the New.
There are numerous on-going threads on this topic covering 1000's of posts. The seventh day of the week (Saturday) is the Sabbath, not the 'Sabath'. As for 'why', this is the day that God rested from His work of creation and set that day apart from the other 6. I will leave it at that.
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Others have answered the first two. Regarding the third, that depends on whether you are a Jew under the old covenant, a Christian under the new covenant, or neither. In the first case, you are required to follow the letter of the law as given to Moses. In the second case, you are free because Jesus Christ has set you free from the requirements of the law by fulfilling it completely. In the third case, just enjoy the weekend, whenever you get one, and be thankful because it stems from the Judeo-Christian belief in Sabbath rest.
As I am a Christian under the new covenant in Christ's blood, there are no "rules" that I need to follow on that specific day.
As I am a Christian under the new covenant in Christ's blood, there are no "rules" that I need to follow on that specific day.
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I follow no rules, I do however keep myself within moral standards. Which have nothing to do with any set of rituals, mystique, or laws. It has to do with respect of my fellow human and how I desire to be treated myself. The words we read in the Bible can be hard to relate to. It can be difficult to think of a lesson in terms of a time and place 4,000 years ago, when you think their modernization vs ours. This is not how you feel God, get to know God in terms of relationship, etc just by reading stories. To experience God for yourself, that no Book can detail in an emotional setting, you will need to experience the viewpoint that what you see happening is not actually happening. And then later, you reason what you saw and have no justifiable thought to accept it or not. Those are the moments when you see one thing visibly happening, but inside you something is saying, something else is actually taking place that I am not aware of, I am not in control of, that ain't NO human capability what I am seeing...
Something recently happened to me. The past few days I walked around the inner perimeter of the farm and placed angels on every wooden post. This place is old old west and farmland/old burial land might be one and the same. I just feel we are in a state of mental awareness when it's easy to be deceived. And I have been preparing my place for spiritual battle. And I noticed a few times from 120 posts I placed angels upon as I walk past, 3 times it happened. I have good peripheral vision, and I caught what looked like a small poof of dust, but the moment I laid my hand on the post and placed an angel there, this puff of dust 5 foot off the ground (lol so it makes no sense at this height) and in my mind, the Holy Spirit revealed an evil entity. Three times I saw that.
You would not be wasting your time if you decided to apply biblical practices to your life. The time to try God is the time when you are asking questions about God, like now. It's not like you have anything to lose. If it's fake and does not work, there is a money back guarantee. It's 100% free!!
Something recently happened to me. The past few days I walked around the inner perimeter of the farm and placed angels on every wooden post. This place is old old west and farmland/old burial land might be one and the same. I just feel we are in a state of mental awareness when it's easy to be deceived. And I have been preparing my place for spiritual battle. And I noticed a few times from 120 posts I placed angels upon as I walk past, 3 times it happened. I have good peripheral vision, and I caught what looked like a small poof of dust, but the moment I laid my hand on the post and placed an angel there, this puff of dust 5 foot off the ground (lol so it makes no sense at this height) and in my mind, the Holy Spirit revealed an evil entity. Three times I saw that.
You would not be wasting your time if you decided to apply biblical practices to your life. The time to try God is the time when you are asking questions about God, like now. It's not like you have anything to lose. If it's fake and does not work, there is a money back guarantee. It's 100% free!!
Actually, answering this subject is very important. First, we need to find the truth of the OT scriptures, whether they are written for mankind or only for the Jews. To me that answer lies in the many scriptures of the OT saying that what God is telling us is for both the Hebrews and, as God putsn it, the stranger among us.
The answer to whether God speaks to all in the OT or just Jews also is in Pauls's writings telling us that in God's eyes there is no Jew and gentile, but all are the same. In that light we may read the scripture that is just before God gives the new covenant to the Jews. The new covenant is taken over by the gentiles as their own, yet the scripture that preceded it is rejected. I think that rejection is in error. Jerimiah 17:22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.
Some say that the Sabbath has been converted from a physical sabbath to a spiritual one. It is true we have a spiritual sabbath, but after God creates something physical like a mountain or a river or a sabbath day God does not take back that creation. God often uses symbolism to teach us, but a symbol that is created is always a symbol of what it symbolizes, just as a shadow is always an outline of what it shadows.
The answer to whether God speaks to all in the OT or just Jews also is in Pauls's writings telling us that in God's eyes there is no Jew and gentile, but all are the same. In that light we may read the scripture that is just before God gives the new covenant to the Jews. The new covenant is taken over by the gentiles as their own, yet the scripture that preceded it is rejected. I think that rejection is in error. Jerimiah 17:22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.
Some say that the Sabbath has been converted from a physical sabbath to a spiritual one. It is true we have a spiritual sabbath, but after God creates something physical like a mountain or a river or a sabbath day God does not take back that creation. God often uses symbolism to teach us, but a symbol that is created is always a symbol of what it symbolizes, just as a shadow is always an outline of what it shadows.
One of the things I'm picking up from this is that since the crucifixion of Jesus, Christians don't need to follow the rules, they just need to have faith... That is like a new covenant with God. Salvation is about faith not works, and therefore the rules don't apply anymore.
Jesus died for our sin, so sin away to your heart's content, Jesus has got your back!
I know I'm being flippant, but that's what this new covenant stuff sounds like.
What I read in the NT is that Jesus said we are to follow all the law. And James said faith is shown by works, i.e. works are an act of faith and therefore a part of faith.
So faith isn't just a mental act but a physical one too? Maybe?
Jesus died for our sin, so sin away to your heart's content, Jesus has got your back!
I know I'm being flippant, but that's what this new covenant stuff sounds like.
What I read in the NT is that Jesus said we are to follow all the law. And James said faith is shown by works, i.e. works are an act of faith and therefore a part of faith.
So faith isn't just a mental act but a physical one too? Maybe?
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Hmmmm, seems to be a communication failure. This so-called GRACE message is garbage. Just look at your responses from so-called believers giving you advice. And what you got was I can be the biggest sinner and Yeshua gives me a free ride. Sad, just sad!!
My apologies. We offer you a sinless God, and in return, you got party till you drop cause Jeezus got my back!!
You ask really sound questions. Sad what you have been given back as answers. Yeshua fulfilled the Law!! No one could ever live a sinless life and fulfill the requirements of the Law. God made Himself into a human and fulfilled the Law that no human could ever do. And since He fulfilled the Law, a new era based upon a New Covenant began. But, that Covenant is not a free license to sin. Far from it....
My apologies. We offer you a sinless God, and in return, you got party till you drop cause Jeezus got my back!!
You ask really sound questions. Sad what you have been given back as answers. Yeshua fulfilled the Law!! No one could ever live a sinless life and fulfill the requirements of the Law. God made Himself into a human and fulfilled the Law that no human could ever do. And since He fulfilled the Law, a new era based upon a New Covenant began. But, that Covenant is not a free license to sin. Far from it....
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read Romans.
it is a comprehensive, systematic & scholarly presentation of the truth of the gospel.
the author, Saul of Tarsus, called Paul, was perhaps the most intelligent & best-studied of all the authors of the books in the Bible apart from Solomon. he was a high-ranking pharisee who formerly tracked down believers to prosecute them in the religious court & have them put to death, but was suddenly converted when God met him on the highway one day ((Acts 9)).
your comments are all addressed in Romans, please take some time to look at it, start to finish.
it is a comprehensive, systematic & scholarly presentation of the truth of the gospel.
the author, Saul of Tarsus, called Paul, was perhaps the most intelligent & best-studied of all the authors of the books in the Bible apart from Solomon. he was a high-ranking pharisee who formerly tracked down believers to prosecute them in the religious court & have them put to death, but was suddenly converted when God met him on the highway one day ((Acts 9)).
your comments are all addressed in Romans, please take some time to look at it, start to finish.
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So should the Sabbath still be honoured by Christians?
What I seemed to be hearing from some replies was the only Jesus is perfect so we don't have to be, or even try to be. But Christians should at least try shouldn't they?
I know there is a thing in Paul's writings about food, and maybe there is something about circumcision, but other than that people should at the very least be trying to follow all ten commandments right?
What I seemed to be hearing from some replies was the only Jesus is perfect so we don't have to be, or even try to be. But Christians should at least try shouldn't they?
I know there is a thing in Paul's writings about food, and maybe there is something about circumcision, but other than that people should at the very least be trying to follow all ten commandments right?
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then you haven't understood yet him, or haven't yet understood Jesus.
there is also a certain context to be understood in Matthew, Mark, Luke & John -- a very fundamental change took place when Christ came to earth and gave Himself to be crucified, and to rise again. this is explained in Romans, and also somewhat in Hebrews, which is also a very information-dense letter. a covenant made at Sinai with the Hebrew people was passing away and being replaced with a new one in His blood. so Jesus speaks to many people, particularly those who do not believe who He is, in the context in which they are in - in this old covenant of law and works, a covenant which condemns them.
without believing the person and works of Christ, no one can enter into the promises of His grace -- which are not lawlessness and sin as you might think ((again, you need to read Romans, all of it)) -- so for example when a man comes to Jesus and calls Him 'teacher' and asks 'what works must he do to inherit life' this man has two strikes against himself immediately: He doesn't recognize Jesus as God enfleshed, but as a teacher, and he considers that life may be earned through good deeds and right actions. this man, then, cannot enter the kingdom of God through faith, because he does not see the Lord for who He is nor are his eyes opened to the truth of holiness and the righteousness of God. so Jesus replies to him in the context of the Sinai covenant, not as a believer.
belief in Christ isn't lawlessness and it isn't 'sin all you want' -- a very fundamental and supernatural change takes place in a person whose perception is opened to the light and truth of the Messiah, and faith in Him radically shifts these paradigms.
Romans will be enormously useful to you, if you are able to put some time into reading it, start to finish, because it is a very logical & orderly treatise, laying out principles one on another, explaining the reality of the situation for a person who enters into life through belief & knowledge of God
there is also a certain context to be understood in Matthew, Mark, Luke & John -- a very fundamental change took place when Christ came to earth and gave Himself to be crucified, and to rise again. this is explained in Romans, and also somewhat in Hebrews, which is also a very information-dense letter. a covenant made at Sinai with the Hebrew people was passing away and being replaced with a new one in His blood. so Jesus speaks to many people, particularly those who do not believe who He is, in the context in which they are in - in this old covenant of law and works, a covenant which condemns them.
without believing the person and works of Christ, no one can enter into the promises of His grace -- which are not lawlessness and sin as you might think ((again, you need to read Romans, all of it)) -- so for example when a man comes to Jesus and calls Him 'teacher' and asks 'what works must he do to inherit life' this man has two strikes against himself immediately: He doesn't recognize Jesus as God enfleshed, but as a teacher, and he considers that life may be earned through good deeds and right actions. this man, then, cannot enter the kingdom of God through faith, because he does not see the Lord for who He is nor are his eyes opened to the truth of holiness and the righteousness of God. so Jesus replies to him in the context of the Sinai covenant, not as a believer.
belief in Christ isn't lawlessness and it isn't 'sin all you want' -- a very fundamental and supernatural change takes place in a person whose perception is opened to the light and truth of the Messiah, and faith in Him radically shifts these paradigms.
Romans will be enormously useful to you, if you are able to put some time into reading it, start to finish, because it is a very logical & orderly treatise, laying out principles one on another, explaining the reality of the situation for a person who enters into life through belief & knowledge of God
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Romans and Hebrews are written by Paul, he does contradict Jesus. Jesus says follow all the laws, James (Jesus' brother right?) said faith is shown by works.
Then this person on a mission to destroy Christianity says he had a revelation and suddenly he did things opposite to Jesus and opposite to people who knew Jesus in the flesh and then that is taken up as the truth.
I'm sorry, I just cant buy into that.
Is this Christianity or 'Paulism', I'm really struggling to make sense of this.
I think Paul has created a beautiful religion, but it clearly does contradict plain straightforward statements by Jesus and people who actually knew him.
Then this person on a mission to destroy Christianity says he had a revelation and suddenly he did things opposite to Jesus and opposite to people who knew Jesus in the flesh and then that is taken up as the truth.
I'm sorry, I just cant buy into that.
Is this Christianity or 'Paulism', I'm really struggling to make sense of this.
I think Paul has created a beautiful religion, but it clearly does contradict plain straightforward statements by Jesus and people who actually knew him.
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The Biblical Sabbath is a day of rest for followers of the God of Abraham.. It comes from the genisis account of creation where God created for 6 Days and on the 7th day rested.. So there is a weekly sabbath that happens once every 7th day..
So there are weekly Sabbaths and also High Sabbaths linked to dates in the year an example of this would be the first and last days of the 7 day period of unleavened bread.. These High Sabbaths are linked to dates of the year not days of the week..
The weekly Sabbath starts at Sundown Friday and ends at Saturday sundown..
No customary work should be done on the Sabbath..
while it is a good idea to have one day rest each week Christians are not called upon to strictly adhere to these rules..
So our salvation is not dependent on us doing the Law without fail..
So there are weekly Sabbaths and also High Sabbaths linked to dates in the year an example of this would be the first and last days of the 7 day period of unleavened bread.. These High Sabbaths are linked to dates of the year not days of the week..
The weekly Sabbath starts at Sundown Friday and ends at Saturday sundown..
No customary work should be done on the Sabbath..
while it is a good idea to have one day rest each week Christians are not called upon to strictly adhere to these rules..
So our salvation is not dependent on us doing the Law without fail..
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Paul said.. (Romans 7:14-16) "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. {15} For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. {16} If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good."
So Paul made it clear the Law was good and he wished He could do the Law without fail but like all other humans beings the desire to be a good person was not attainable and he ended up doing things he hated .. breaking the Law..
Faith is shown by Works because those who love the Law know it is true and good.. Our Works do not secure for us Salvation.. The Horse ( Salvation ) comes before the carriage ( good Works ) many religious people make the mistake of putting the carriage before the horse..
But salvation is NOT secured by us Christians succeeding in doing the Law without failure.. Why? Because no one can do the Law without failing at one point or another.. Just because no one can be perfect does not mean that which is perfect should be rejected.. No we acknowledge that Gods will is good and perfect and acknowledge we cannot live up to the perfect standards of Gods will, We give thanks to God who provided the Atonement that we who fail to do the Law need to be justly forgiven all our transgressions against the Law..
The main purpose of the Law is to convict people.. To bring to their knowledge that they Fail to Keep the Law.. The law makes everyone GUILTY and Condemned.... That truth naturally leads people to seek the Solution, The Way God has made for sinners to be Saved.. And that is by the loving gift of Atonement Jesus secured for us...
So Paul made it clear the Law was good and he wished He could do the Law without fail but like all other humans beings the desire to be a good person was not attainable and he ended up doing things he hated .. breaking the Law..
Faith is shown by Works because those who love the Law know it is true and good.. Our Works do not secure for us Salvation.. The Horse ( Salvation ) comes before the carriage ( good Works ) many religious people make the mistake of putting the carriage before the horse..
But salvation is NOT secured by us Christians succeeding in doing the Law without failure.. Why? Because no one can do the Law without failing at one point or another.. Just because no one can be perfect does not mean that which is perfect should be rejected.. No we acknowledge that Gods will is good and perfect and acknowledge we cannot live up to the perfect standards of Gods will, We give thanks to God who provided the Atonement that we who fail to do the Law need to be justly forgiven all our transgressions against the Law..
The main purpose of the Law is to convict people.. To bring to their knowledge that they Fail to Keep the Law.. The law makes everyone GUILTY and Condemned.... That truth naturally leads people to seek the Solution, The Way God has made for sinners to be Saved.. And that is by the loving gift of Atonement Jesus secured for us...
My point isn't really about ultimate salvation, surely the religion is also about doing gods will, rather than ones own, "Thy will be done."
So even though a Christian is saved by faith, they are still expected to obey God/Christ, and still to follow the law to the best of their ability! Because that is what Jesus wants you to do, and has told you to do.
The new covenant doesn't change that. You might slip up because you are human, but that doesn't mean you can say the laws have gone, they haven't gone and you are supposed to follow them... Jesus told you to.
So even though a Christian is saved by faith, they are still expected to obey God/Christ, and still to follow the law to the best of their ability! Because that is what Jesus wants you to do, and has told you to do.
The new covenant doesn't change that. You might slip up because you are human, but that doesn't mean you can say the laws have gone, they haven't gone and you are supposed to follow them... Jesus told you to.
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Where did Paul ever promote law breaking ?
You know some accusers of Paul during His time on earth where making such accusations against Him..
Romans 3
8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
Those who slander Paul and say that He preached that we should do evil will face condemnation and their condemnation will be justified..
You know some accusers of Paul during His time on earth where making such accusations against Him..
Romans 3
8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
Those who slander Paul and say that He preached that we should do evil will face condemnation and their condemnation will be justified..