Not By Works

dcontroversal · Mar 8, 2019

Amen bro.....was wondering if any would get it or look it up....if one studies Ephesians we see an order given the the enemies "army" with the World ruler "Satan" at the head...when the end fully comes "per Revelation" he will give his 4 GENERAL ANGLES bound in the river Euphrates power authority over the 200 million strong Locust Army from the pit of hell........!!!!

Rev. 9 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

And the funny thing....most teach the saved will have been already raptured.................

And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

dcontroversal · Mar 8, 2019

mailmandan said:

Roman Catholics (along with other works-salvationists) misinterpret James 2:24 and teach that we are "justified" in the sense that we are "accounted as righteous" based on the merits of our works, which is absolutely false. (see Romans 4:2-6)

Roman Catholics will stress WORKING TOGETHER and FAITH ALONE in James 2:22-24 to teach that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. Roman Catholics will also stress FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE in Galatians 5:6 to teach that Christians will only reap the reward of eternal life if they continue to perform good works. That is salvation "maintained" by works. Roman Catholics view eternal life as a reward that we work for and earn and justification as a process, which is absolutely false.

Roman Catholics will twist Ephesians 2:8,9 to make it read like this: For by grace you have been saved through faith (infused with good works)...and just not by works of the law (like circumcision). What they are actually saying is that we are saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law like circumcision) which is absolutely false. (See Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

Here is a statement from a works-salvationist who attends the church of Christ that is very similar to what Roman Catholics teach: "
"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."

OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS is the demonstrative evidence of our love for the Lord (2 John 1:6), yet Roman Catholics teach that obedience to His commands is the basis or means by which we merit eternal life.

Roman Catholics also re-define faith to "include" works. Here is an example of this below from a statement made by a Roman Catholic that I was in a discussion with:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

So although various works-salvationists have a difference in style, it's the same in substance - "works based false gospel."

Oh I know.....a cafe blend false gospel.......

Faith is what saves, justifies, seals and sanctifies one in Christ

Faith plus anything = false gospel and no power to save <--exactly why Jesus states that He never KNEW THE MANY that claims to know him and claims the right to enter by their works.....many on this thread peddle and believe exactly what the MANY believed.....!!!

dcontroversal · Mar 8, 2019

gb9 said:

Such a simple concept and truth.....no wonder many miss it.....the simplicity found in Christ.....believe and be saved eternally.....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe!!

Argueless · Mar 8, 2019

mailmandan said:

...Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing MUST I DO TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY. THE COMMANDMENTS” Matthew 19:16-30

"OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS"

...I will not venture to speak of anything except what CHRIST HAS ACCOMPLISHED through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE—
Romans 15:18

"OBEY GOD"

...But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

"DO NOT BE LED ASTRAY"

...IT IS GOD'S WILL that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that IN THIS MATTER, NO ONE SHOULD WRONG HIS BROTHER or take advantage of him. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS, as we have already told you and WARNED YOU. For God DID NOT CALL US TO BE IMPURE, but to LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction DOES NOT REJECT MAN BUT GOD, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8

"DO NOT REJECT GOD"

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

"THEIR PLACE WILL BE IN THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR"

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

"DO NOT BE DECEIVED"

...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?

"DO NOT REFUSE HIM WHO WARNED YOU"

dcontroversal · Mar 8, 2019

Blah, blah, blah....I see the Catholic is still peddling the O.T. law obeying self saving drivel......Jesus was born, lived, died and became a curse for us UNDER THE LAW which RATIFIED the NEW COVENANT OF FAITH.......Jesus ONLY SAVES BY Faith....not by LAW KEEPING, COMMANDMENT KEEPING OR ANY OTHER WORKING FOR DRIVEL!

FollowHisSteps · Mar 8, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Jesus is who saves, justifies, seals and sanctifies us, and it is our faith in His ability that gives
Him permission to change us without destroying us.

It is easy to believe God could change us, but without co-operation and submission, repentance
humbleness we would never survive. Love and relationships cannot be artificially generated as
they are based on free will and choice.

Everything about the simplistic and delusional aspirations without foundations fails at first inspection.
And a simple reason is because they do not trust Jesus or His words. His words are spoken as if they
are all sarcastic impossible goals to show failure rather than promises of expectation to be fulfilled by
His people full of His love and victory because of the healing and purification of their hearts, Amen

There is nothing clearer than this simple declaration, ones mouth speaks of what the heart is full of,
love, joy and peace, or fear, enemies, retaliation, bringing others down and defeat.

dcontroversal · Mar 8, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Jesus is who saves, justifies, seals and sanctifies us, and it is our faith in His ability that gives
Him permission to change us without destroying us.

It is easy to believe God could change us, but without co-operation and submission, repentance
humbleness we would never survive. Love and relationships cannot be artificially generated as
they are based on free will and choice.

Everything about the simplistic and delusional aspirations without foundations fails at first inspection.
And a simple reason is because they do not trust Jesus or His words. His words are spoken as if they
are all sarcastic impossible goals to show failure rather than promises of expectation to be fulfilled by
His people full of His love and victory because of the healing and purification of their hearts, Amen

There is nothing clearer than this simple declaration, ones mouth speaks of what the heart is full of,
love, joy and peace, or fear, enemies, retaliation, bringing others down and defeat.

OK Petey....keep believing you have something to do with it.....keep devaluing Jesus and lifting yourself......bad day of reckoning coming for you....ALL GLORY GOES TO JESUS CHRIST and the HEAVENLY FATHER........you boast way too much pal

mailmandan · Mar 8, 2019

dcontroversal said:

It sounds to me like he is mixed up in some type of "holier than thou" movement that peddles works righteousness.

Sadly, he still remains under the delusion that he will be saved based on the merits of his performance, namely, obedience to the commandments, due to his misinterpretation of scripture. Just about everything he posts (in cynical fashion) pertains to "performance based works salvation."

There was a SDA who used to be a member of Christian Chat who was absolutely obsessed with preaching obedience to the 10 commandments as the basis or means of receiving eternal life (and I'm sure you can guess his name). Here is a statement from him below which demonstrates how he perverted the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

"There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."

dcontroversal · Mar 8, 2019

mailmandan said:

It sounds to me like he is mixed up in some type of "holier than thou" movement that peddles works righteousness.

Sadly, he still remains under the delusion that he will be saved based on the merits of his performance, namely, obedience to the commandments, due to his misinterpretation of scripture. Just about everything he posts (in cynical fashion) pertains to "performance based works salvation."

There was a SDA who used to be a member of Christian Chat who was absolutely obsessed with preaching obedience to the 10 commandments as the basis or means of receiving salvation (and I'm sure you can guess his name). Here is a statement from him below which demonstrates how he perverted the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

"There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."

Amen........I even seen one say that no one knows if they are saved until the last day.....can you imagine the fallacy of that post.....no hope, no confidence and the same type of hope one gets when they buy a lottery ticket and HOPE THEY WIN AND WILL NOT KNOW TILL THE DRAW ....What a devaluation of Jesus and his promises...!!

Argueless · Mar 8, 2019

We can see and identify from these discussions who are the servants of God and who are not...who are righteous and who are wicked.

Jesus told His disciples to preach the Gospel unto all nations and teach them to OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. (Matthew 28:18-20)

Now those who adhere to the Lord's instructions are called "IDIOTIC", WORKS SALVATIONISTS, SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS, SALVATION LOSERS ETC. Insulting and mocking the idea of OBEDIENCE TO GOD as PART OF SALVATION. (See Hebrews 5:7-9)

They are calling evil GOOD and good EVIL. (Isaiah 5:20-24)

What is NOTICEABLE is how this people PROUDLY and CONTINUOUSLY calling themselves "SINNERS" even after claiming at the same time that they were BORN AGAIN of incorruptible seed.

(A double personality suffering from SCHIZOPHRENIA who love to DOUBLE TALK.)

I am not insulting or mocking anyone but just EXPOSING them to lead them to godly sorrow and somehow REPENT.

...When I say to a wicked man, ‘YOU WILL SURELY DIE,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to DISSUADE HIM FROM HIS EVIL WAYS in order TO SAVE HIS LIFE, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you ACCOUNTABLE for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do WARN the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, HE WILL SURELY LIVE because HE TOOK WARNING, and you will have saved yourself.” Ezekiel 3:18-21

... “Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be SHAMEFULLY EXPOSED.” Revelation 16:15

...“YOU HAVE SAID HARSH THINGS AGAINST ME,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “THEY WILL BE MINE,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between THE RIGHTEOUS and THE WICKED, between THOSE WHO SERVE God and THOSE WHO DO NOT. Malachi 3:13-18

mailmandan · Mar 8, 2019

Argueless said:

You may be surprised. Don't be so quick to judge. Ultimately, that judgment call is well above your pay grade.

Yes, preach the gospel, make disciples, baptize converts, teach them to observe all things that He has commanded. The gospel is not salvation by obeying His commandments/salvation by works. Believers are to strive to observe all things He has commanded BECAUSE we are saved and not to become saved. Don't put the cart before the horse. With all this talk about obedience to His commandments and very little talk about grace, faith and the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, it's obvious what you have placed your faith in/are trusting in for salvation and it's NOT CHRIST ALONE.

Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not adhering to the Lord's instructions. (Galatians 1:6-9) You continue to insult and mock believers (particularly those in the OSAS camp) throughout your posts, so don't be hypocritical. You keep saying that obedience is part of salvation, so explain to us, how much obedience does it take? How much obedience must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help Him save you?"

I've heard many works salvationists use Hebrews 5:7-9 to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's. So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments and practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain and/or maintain salvation by works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

You sure are full of accusations against the brethren.

Déjà vu

You can try to justify yourself all you want, but we know the difference. So who is "them" and what do they need to REPENT of?

dcontroversal · Mar 9, 2019

mailmandan said:

You may be surprised. Don't be so quick to judge. Ultimately, that judgment call is well above your pay grade.

Yes, preach the gospel, make disciples, baptize converts, teach them to observe all things that He has commanded. The gospel is not salvation by obeying His commandments/salvation by works. Believers are to strive to observe all things He has commanded BECAUSE we are saved and not to become saved. Don't put the cart before the horse. With all this talk about obedience to His commandments and very little talk about grace, faith and the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, it's obvious what you have placed your faith in/are trusting in for salvation and it's NOT CHRIST ALONE.

Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not adhering to the Lord's instructions. (Galatians 1:6-9) You continue to insult and mock believers (particularly those in the OSAS camp) throughout your posts, so don't be hypocritical. You keep saying that obedience is part of salvation, so explain to us, how much obedience does it take? How much obedience must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help Him save you?"

I've heard many works salvationists use Hebrews 5:7-9 to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's. So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments and practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain and/or maintain salvation by works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

You sure are full of accusations against the brethren.

Déjà vu

You can try to justify yourself all you want, but we know the difference. So who is "them" and what do they need to REPENT of?

Amen brother....plain as day hey migo.

Argueless · Mar 9, 2019

mailmandan said:

.
...TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU...Matthew 28:18-20

Who are CLAIMING that they who BELIEVE in Christ and are SAVED are the ones who truly OBEY?

Why do they attack those who OBEY Christ's command to teach OBEDIENCE to his commands instead of teaching OBEDIENCE to His commands as the verses CLEARLY state?

It's because they do not really BELIEVE Christ who spoke those words and their defiance proves it. They would rather BELIEVE and OBEY FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES....for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. John 12:42-43

The itsy TWISTY spider...

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. THEY ARE GODLESS MEN, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...They claim to know God, but by THEIR ACTIONS they DENY Him. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and UNFIT for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

Look who's talking about HONESTY.

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Do you not CALL EVIL GOOD and GOOD EVIL? (Isaiah 5:20-24)

Is it RIGHT to OBEY God? Is it GOOD or is it WRONG and EVIL? If it is RIGHT and GOOD, why do you call those who promote OBEDIENCE TO GOD as FALSE or peddlers of a FALSE GOSPEL?

Do you not insult and call the views of those who promote OBEDIENCE to God as IDIOTIC?(I'm referring to dcon)

It's funny how your group can say that only genuine believers would OBEY God and those who promote OBEDIENCE to God are LOST, UNBELIEVERS, FALSE, DECEIVER, NOT SAVED TO BEGIN WITH and many other discriminating NEGATIVE remarks.

And when you are called out, you will accuse them of SLANDER and start bullying those who disagree with you to the point of getting them banned to SUPPRESS THE TRUTH which no NOSAS ever did.

But scriptures fortold of these kind of people and behaviour.

.. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:14-19

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

...Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. HE WHO DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS RIGHTEOUS, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

IS IT RIGHT TO OBEY GOD or not?

Are you an instrument of God's righteousness or do you just BELIEVE and let God do everything for you?

Who now is the LORD, you?...and who is your servant, GOD?

....“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares HIS SON WHO SERVES HIM. And you will again see the DISTINCTION between the RIGHTEOUS and the WICKED, between those who SERVE GOD and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18

...God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. 2 Corinthians 5:21[

...I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE— Romans 15:15-18[/QUOTE]

FollowHisSteps · Mar 9, 2019

dcontroversal said:

As much as you want to believe you put your faith in Jesus, if one does not believe in
His words, obeying them and being transformed into His likeness one has nothing.

It sounds so right to claim it is boasting in self to recognise Christs work in us, except
what is the point of salvation if we are not transformed and moved forward?

How could anyone be happy to stay as they are and be judged?
The excuse is they are safe in Jesus. Trouble is Jesus is the judge of this very thing.
And the promise of salvation is that you believe Him and follow. Without this one has
nothing. If your conscience condemns you today, and shows you how unworthy and
washed up one is, there is no hope unless one repents and humbles oneself before the
King.

What is strange to me is to hear anyone claim they know Jesus and His word and reject
this very principle when their soul and future is at stake. But then fear is evil, repenting
is not necessary and one is saved no matter what. How deeper a deception does one
have to be in, that you can stray from the path and have nothing to bring you back?

God could not even discipline one such as these as nothing would register.

That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:6-10

In what seems an odd way, we are always humbled before the King, and need to be careful
to listen and follow. And this is not because we fear losing salvation, we do not want to lose
our life in Him, our connection to the Lord of All because we love His so much.

Sadly this is not what I hear from those who claim so much but who give so little.

Argueless · Mar 9, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.

...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?[

FollowHisSteps · Mar 9, 2019

Do words of arrogance, which contradict scripture, sound like wisdom or foolishness?

Our goal is to be like Jesus. The question is why and how?
Some like the way they are, but want the reassurance of missing judgement.
Others are cynical they can ever be different and point to failure in ourselves.

But unless we are like Jesus we will never enter heaven.
Ones sense of religion at this point will shout, how dare you suggest we could ever get
close to Jesus.

If that is your feeling, that is a good start. The gap is vast, insurmountable except through
the blood and body of Christ, dying to self and living to Him. It takes everything we are and
putting everything on the altar. The words are stark, absolute, and eternal.

Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Matt 10:39

The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.
John 12:25-26

In some peoples mind hearing these verses opposes their heart, because it says it is earning salvation,
giving up ones life, to gain it back. But this is the process of birth, starting again and sacrificing everything.

A climber as they climb must trust the rope, must leave the safety of the ground and risk their life, give it away,
to gain the height they want to achieve. To refuse to climb is to never achieve the height of heaven, and to lose
it all.

FollowHisSteps · Mar 9, 2019

Addiction to belief

I believe so I am ok. Thus speaks all deluded people the world over. Belief is just that, an idea
a way of looking at the world. Unless it changes things or achieves something it is pointless.
"I can walk on water" drowns, "I can fly" falls to their death, "I can change things with my words"
tornado kills them.

Belief gives reassurance. I can cross the road without dying so I do not fear or be anxious.
Problem is they die while doing something they should have been scared of.

Fear is a good thing, it keeps us alive. If one failure kills you, there is no coming back, so fear is
needed to stop that one failure. And the biggest failure of all is not listening to God. He is the author
of Life and its judge, but most of all the maker of the path to life eternal, the guide in whom we need
to have 100% trust.

The enemy will do 3 things. Remove fear, remove repentance, reassure a sinful life is ok.
And he will get people to stop listening to God and Jesus. And they will die in their sins.
And God will judge and send such as these rightly to the fire, as nothing will have eternal significance.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:27

Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.
1 Peter 1:17

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
Eph 6:5

Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us
1 John 3:24

Sadly if you have never entered in then the Spirit if currently not there. So repent, and open up your heart
to Him and accept Him as your Lord and Saviour.

lightbearer · Mar 9, 2019

Bingo said:

Hi Bingo, What exactly do you mean by "pretended books of revelation"

Bingo · Mar 9, 2019

lightbearer said:

'The all of all 'ambiguous language and the entirety of the 'entertainment spectacle'..
modern day 'Christianity'...God have mercy!"...............About all I will type."

FollowHisSteps · Mar 9, 2019

Compounded ignorance

There are perspectives on our walk in Christ which are assumed because one has started by the gate.
Without this starting everything else looks wrong. It is no wonder if people enter not by the gate
everything then becomes very different because their hearts are not built upon the foundation.

We assume rightly our brothers and sisters in Christ are like us, until the fruit of their lips and lives
starts to produce things that are not of Christ and go against His word and ways.

Where the root is so will be the fruit. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is obvious, and those who speak
against it clearly show they are not from Him.

Not By Works

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