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YOU OR YOUR CHURCH CAN NOT CHANGE THE SECOND COMING.
JESUS SAID IN MAT.24:29.30. HE IS COMING =AFTER=THE TRIBULATION. YOU CAN NOT CHANGE THAT, NO MATTER
HOW HARD YOU BELIEVE THAT HE IS COMING BEFORE THE
TRIB.DONT JUST BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE TOLD .READ FOR YOUR SELF, DONT JUST DEPEND ON HEAR SAY. IT IS LIFE.
YOU WANT TO LIVE WITH CHRIST DONT YOU.
WAKEUP
Concluding Observations
I have come to the conclusion that Dispensationalism is a much more serious threat to a well-informed biblical worldview than I was once inclined to think of it.
Dispensationalism is not exclusively (or even predominantly) a complicated eschatological schema that lends itself to bizarre novels.
The eschatological phenomena, which are so predominant to many people, have their roots in a soil from which spring ideas and conceptions of all of redemptive history, and which even extend to one’s understanding of the position and nature of the Redeemer.
Thankfully, many Dispensationalists are affected in their understanding of these weightier issues only to varying degrees, some quite minimal.
However, this ameliorating circumstance can only come through allowing inconsistencies with their basic worldview to predominate in certain areas.
And as Dispensationalism is allowed to flavor their thinking, to that extent their understanding even of matters of great importance will be dangerously clouded.
It is a task of the greatest importance to be diligent in exposing the underlying beliefs of the Dispensational ideal, examining those beliefs in the light of scripture, and informing our brothers and sisters who have, to varying degrees, been affected by this system.
Psalm 45 Publications Dispensationalism and the Eclipse of Christ (An Open Correspondence)
I have come to the conclusion that Dispensationalism is a much more serious threat to a well-informed biblical worldview than I was once inclined to think of it.
Dispensationalism is not exclusively (or even predominantly) a complicated eschatological schema that lends itself to bizarre novels.
The eschatological phenomena, which are so predominant to many people, have their roots in a soil from which spring ideas and conceptions of all of redemptive history, and which even extend to one’s understanding of the position and nature of the Redeemer.
Thankfully, many Dispensationalists are affected in their understanding of these weightier issues only to varying degrees, some quite minimal.
However, this ameliorating circumstance can only come through allowing inconsistencies with their basic worldview to predominate in certain areas.
And as Dispensationalism is allowed to flavor their thinking, to that extent their understanding even of matters of great importance will be dangerously clouded.
It is a task of the greatest importance to be diligent in exposing the underlying beliefs of the Dispensational ideal, examining those beliefs in the light of scripture, and informing our brothers and sisters who have, to varying degrees, been affected by this system.
Psalm 45 Publications Dispensationalism and the Eclipse of Christ (An Open Correspondence)
S
[quote=zone;395105]Concluding Observations
I have come to the conclusion that Dispensationalism is a much more
serious threat to a well-informed biblical worldview than I was once
inclined to think of it.
Dispensationalism is not exclusively (or even predominantly) a
complicated eschatological schema that lends itself to bizarre novels.
The eschatological phenomena, which are so predominant to many
people, have their roots in a soil from which spring ideas and
conceptions of all of redemptive history, and which even extend to
one’s understanding of the position and nature of the Redeemer.
Thankfully, many Dispensationalists are affected in their understanding
of these weightier issues only to varying degrees, some quite minimal.
However, this ameliorating circumstance can only come through
allowing inconsistencies with their basic worldview to predominate in
certain areas.
And as Dispensationalism is allowed to flavor their thinking, to that
extent their understanding even of matters of great importance will be
dangerously clouded.
It is a task of the greatest importance to be diligent in exposing the
underlying beliefs of the Dispensational ideal, examining those beliefs
in the light of scripture, and informing our brothers and sisters who
have, to varying degrees, been affected by this system.
Psalm 45 Publications Dispensationalism and the Eclipse of Christ (An
Open Correspondence) [/quote]
As an Antidote to Dispensationalism, and to other heresies, I recommend the following books:
1. Sparks, Fr. Jack Norman, Ph.D., Dean, ed. The Orthodox Study Bible. Copyright 2008, St. Athanasius Academy of Orthodox Theology, Elk Grove, CA. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Bibles.
2. The Orthodox New Testament. 2 Vols. Holy Apostles Convent, translators. Copyright 2000, Holy Apostles Convent. Buena Vista, CO.
3. Gillquist, Fr. Peter E. (1992). Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith. Revised and Expanded edition. Ben Lomond, CA: Conciliar Press.
4. Saint Photios. The Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit. Joseph P. Farrell, trans. Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 1987.
5. Saint Photios. On the Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit. Holy Transfiguration Monastery, translators. Boston, MA: Studion Publishers, 1987.
6. Siecienski, A. Edward. (2010). The Filioque: History of a Doctrinal Controversy. New York: Oxford University Press.
See also (from a non-Orthodox point of view):
Bahnsen, Greg L,, & Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L. House Divided: The Break-up of Dispensational Theology.
Available from Amazon.com on GOOGLE. All of these books can be found by a GOOGLE search of Amazon.com bookstore.
Take care. God bless you in Christ Jesus; Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington, March 2011 AD
I have come to the conclusion that Dispensationalism is a much more
serious threat to a well-informed biblical worldview than I was once
inclined to think of it.
Dispensationalism is not exclusively (or even predominantly) a
complicated eschatological schema that lends itself to bizarre novels.
The eschatological phenomena, which are so predominant to many
people, have their roots in a soil from which spring ideas and
conceptions of all of redemptive history, and which even extend to
one’s understanding of the position and nature of the Redeemer.
Thankfully, many Dispensationalists are affected in their understanding
of these weightier issues only to varying degrees, some quite minimal.
However, this ameliorating circumstance can only come through
allowing inconsistencies with their basic worldview to predominate in
certain areas.
And as Dispensationalism is allowed to flavor their thinking, to that
extent their understanding even of matters of great importance will be
dangerously clouded.
It is a task of the greatest importance to be diligent in exposing the
underlying beliefs of the Dispensational ideal, examining those beliefs
in the light of scripture, and informing our brothers and sisters who
have, to varying degrees, been affected by this system.
Psalm 45 Publications Dispensationalism and the Eclipse of Christ (An
Open Correspondence) [/quote]
As an Antidote to Dispensationalism, and to other heresies, I recommend the following books:
1. Sparks, Fr. Jack Norman, Ph.D., Dean, ed. The Orthodox Study Bible. Copyright 2008, St. Athanasius Academy of Orthodox Theology, Elk Grove, CA. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Bibles.
2. The Orthodox New Testament. 2 Vols. Holy Apostles Convent, translators. Copyright 2000, Holy Apostles Convent. Buena Vista, CO.
3. Gillquist, Fr. Peter E. (1992). Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith. Revised and Expanded edition. Ben Lomond, CA: Conciliar Press.
4. Saint Photios. The Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit. Joseph P. Farrell, trans. Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 1987.
5. Saint Photios. On the Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit. Holy Transfiguration Monastery, translators. Boston, MA: Studion Publishers, 1987.
6. Siecienski, A. Edward. (2010). The Filioque: History of a Doctrinal Controversy. New York: Oxford University Press.
See also (from a non-Orthodox point of view):
Bahnsen, Greg L,, & Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L. House Divided: The Break-up of Dispensational Theology.
Available from Amazon.com on GOOGLE. All of these books can be found by a GOOGLE search of Amazon.com bookstore.
Take care. God bless you in Christ Jesus; Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington, March 2011 AD
Maybe after the 2nd Advent of the Rupture and the 3rd Advent at the 2nd Advent, there'll be a 4th Advent at a 3rd Advent and then a 5th Advent at a 4th ad infinitum. Once we add one Advent, why stop?! Think BIG! 
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, (which is a prison in verse 7 ) that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Satan is 'shut up' meaning no one can enter in of leave because Satan is barred and is 'sealed' meaning a fixed position that can not be broken until the end of the 1,000 yrs. He has no ability to exercise any of his powers, devices or practices upon mankind.
*If Satan was bound by an angel at the time of the ascension, cast into the bottomless pit, shut up and has set a seal upon him for 1,000 yrs, why does the scriptures speak of Satan being active in the NT after the ascension?
In (Acts 5:3) Satan filled the heart of Ananias to lie to the Holy Spirit.
In (Acts 26:18) Paul was sent to turn the Gentiles from the power of Satan unto God.
In (1Cor 5:5) Paul write to the believers at Corinth to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh. If Satan was bound tis could not happen.
In (1Cor 7:5) Paul communicated with married couples not to defraud one another, less Satan tempt them
In (2Cor 2:11) the believers were to forgive and confirm their love for that one who had sinned lest Satan should get an advantage.
In (2Cor 11:14) Satan is transformed into an angel of light. The verb 'is transformed' is in the present/middle/indicative, which means that as a matter and statement of fact (indicative mood)Satan has at the present time (present tense) has initiated the action of transforming himself (middle voice) into an angel of light.
In (2Cor 12:7) a messenger of Satan was sent to Paul to buffet him.
In (1Thes 2:18) Satan hindered Paul from coming unto the Thessalonian believers.
In (1Tim 1:20) Paul delivered Hymenaeus and Alexander unto Satan so that they would learn not to blaspheme.
*What about the synagogue of Satan that is made up of those that say they are Jews but are not (Rev 2:9)? Is not this synagogue the place that Satan dwelleth (Rev 2:13). The verb 'dwelleth' is also a present/active/indicative. This letter and revelation was to be written to the angel of the church at Smyrna (Rev 2:8), a NT church after the ascension and before the resurrection of the saints.
* Are you going to tell me that the use of the word 'Satan' in these passages is not a literal one but figurative or symbolic in describing the power and kingdom of darkness? How can the kingdom of darkness function without its head Satan?
*Are you going to deny these scriptures (and there are many more because there are four names or titles ascribed to him in Rev 20:2) that place Satan as an unbound and active participant in the ongoings of the NT church that God even uses from time to time for His own purposes?
The Threat of Christian Zionism
If the phenomenal success of the bestselling Left Behind series indicates anything about the prevailing eschatological mindset across a wide swath of the evangelical landscape in modern America, then we would do well to pause and consider. Where is this fascination with the sensational, and frequently outright bizarre, interpretation of the significance of current events coming from? What is driving the obsession to see end-time prophetic events transpiring in every headline?
What connection does this mindset have with the implacable opposition to any measure taken for peace in the Middle East which would leave the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, or any part of Jerusalem outside of the complete control of the modern state of Israel?
More importantly, what ideologies, theological convictions, or ways of understanding the bible lie beneath these phenomena, and how much of an impact are they having on the theological moorings of the Church today? I suspect that the impact is significant enough to warrant a strong warning statement about the movement known as Christian Zionism, and the hyper-Dispensationalism which drives it, from the leaders of the evangelical Church.
Unfortunately, however, it has not received the united front of resistance with which other threats to the health of the Church have been met with, such as Openness theology and gender-role confusion. Is this because many Evangelical leaders share enough theological convictions in common with the more extreme examples of the movement that they are loathe to give a clear denunciation?
Or do they simply not perceive the errors as being a significant or widespread enough a danger to warrant the time and effort of a thoroughgoing rebuttal? Whatever the reason, there seems to be a general lack of attentiveness to a very rampant problem in Evangelicalism.
Perhaps it is time to make clear just what Christian Zionism is (as well as all its theological bedfellows), what convictions are driving it, and what results it is tending towards in the thoughts and practice of the contemporary believer.
Psalm 45 Publications The Threat of Christian Zionism
If the phenomenal success of the bestselling Left Behind series indicates anything about the prevailing eschatological mindset across a wide swath of the evangelical landscape in modern America, then we would do well to pause and consider. Where is this fascination with the sensational, and frequently outright bizarre, interpretation of the significance of current events coming from? What is driving the obsession to see end-time prophetic events transpiring in every headline?
What connection does this mindset have with the implacable opposition to any measure taken for peace in the Middle East which would leave the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, or any part of Jerusalem outside of the complete control of the modern state of Israel?
More importantly, what ideologies, theological convictions, or ways of understanding the bible lie beneath these phenomena, and how much of an impact are they having on the theological moorings of the Church today? I suspect that the impact is significant enough to warrant a strong warning statement about the movement known as Christian Zionism, and the hyper-Dispensationalism which drives it, from the leaders of the evangelical Church.
Unfortunately, however, it has not received the united front of resistance with which other threats to the health of the Church have been met with, such as Openness theology and gender-role confusion. Is this because many Evangelical leaders share enough theological convictions in common with the more extreme examples of the movement that they are loathe to give a clear denunciation?
Or do they simply not perceive the errors as being a significant or widespread enough a danger to warrant the time and effort of a thoroughgoing rebuttal? Whatever the reason, there seems to be a general lack of attentiveness to a very rampant problem in Evangelicalism.
Perhaps it is time to make clear just what Christian Zionism is (as well as all its theological bedfellows), what convictions are driving it, and what results it is tending towards in the thoughts and practice of the contemporary believer.
Psalm 45 Publications The Threat of Christian Zionism
You put so much emphasis on that one book, that obviously has had a negative effect upon you and has deluded your objectivity in the word of God. Lay it aside and pretend it doesn't exist and go on in the scriptures that are trustworthy, inspired and will never pass away. If you can focus this way, then I believe that you can be objective, sensible and get back to the simplicity that is in Christ. You will be able to answer all the logistics of the word when it comes to future events for Israel and the church and have good sound conclusions that do not involve all those negative resentments that you wrestle with. You can do it Zone!
Redster
Redster
"that book" is just the link of the day Redster.
the dispensational (dual covenant/two peoples) theology house-of-cards has fallen, and its not getting up, not if i can help it.
negative resentments?
i guess i'm not happy about the jewish people being lied to; the church being deceived; and everybody's time being wasted by men we were warned would come and introduce leaven.
but i am so grateful God in His mercy hasn't left me behind (in the dispy world - which is hardly simplicity in Christ Jesus, Redsterama)
2 Corinthians 11
Paul and the False Apostles
1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! 2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 5 Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles. 6 Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not so in knowledge; indeed, in every way we have made this plain to you in all things.
12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
the dispensational (dual covenant/two peoples) theology house-of-cards has fallen, and its not getting up
, not if i can help it.
negative resentments?
i guess i'm not happy about the jewish people being lied to; the church being deceived; and everybody's time being wasted by men we were warned would come and introduce leaven.
but i am so grateful God in His mercy hasn't left me behind (in the dispy world - which is hardly simplicity in Christ Jesus, Redsterama)
2 Corinthians 11
Paul and the False Apostles
1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! 2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 5 Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles. 6 Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not so in knowledge; indeed, in every way we have made this plain to you in all things.
12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Bigshot? Nope. Thanks for the offer to move from the foot of the table to a seat of honor; but I'll humble myself under the mighty hand of God that He might exalt me in due time.
I think Zone might take offense at that overall.
Not on this subject. My sarcastic HUMOR kicks in to lighten the load of tension.
Wait... zone is a... a... g-g-g-giiiiiirl?! I did not know this. Thank you.
It would be futile to address this with those who are already adamant and presume another view to be simply dismissing Scripture. What would it change for you... really?
I prefer to toss in a little levity than to futily contend with Darbyites and Scofieldians. No personal offense intended.
I pick my "battles", and orthodox Godhead doctrinal error is mine.
I think Zone might take offense at that overall.
Not on this subject. My sarcastic HUMOR kicks in to lighten the load of tension.
Wait... zone is a... a... g-g-g-giiiiiirl?! I did not know this. Thank you.
It would be futile to address this with those who are already adamant and presume another view to be simply dismissing Scripture. What would it change for you... really?
I prefer to toss in a little levity than to futily contend with Darbyites and Scofieldians. No personal offense intended.
I pick my "battles", and orthodox Godhead doctrinal error is mine.
It would do well for us to understand that most of those who are waiting to escape the world through the rapture are not saved anyway. They have accepted a watered down gospel which is devoid of grace. They have never received the Spirit of truth and thus have not the life from above nor the seal of birth into God's family.
So of course a series like the "Left behind" series would appeal to them. Christianity is a profession of faith. Ha, Ha! I don't have to endure the judgment, the wrath, the tribulation. I get to escape it all.
True christianity is knowing God, through Jesus Christ, by the Holy Spirit. The one who has this has already escaped, and knows it in their heart. They have escaped eternal death, and have life eternal in Jesus Christ. Most of what people believe about the end times is meaningless to them, they can only wait for their Lord to come from heaven with expectant anticipation and love.
So of course a series like the "Left behind" series would appeal to them. Christianity is a profession of faith. Ha, Ha! I don't have to endure the judgment, the wrath, the tribulation. I get to escape it all.
True christianity is knowing God, through Jesus Christ, by the Holy Spirit. The one who has this has already escaped, and knows it in their heart. They have escaped eternal death, and have life eternal in Jesus Christ. Most of what people believe about the end times is meaningless to them, they can only wait for their Lord to come from heaven with expectant anticipation and love.