THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

[Anidod]

So there a lot of post in this thread and I've only read but two, maybe three. I wonder if anyone addressed the following verse :

Revelation 18:23

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

I'm not sure the bride is the church, gentile or Jews? I think that is talking about something else, not sure. Can anyone address this verse?

 

[VCO]

i asked for even one pre-trib verse and none was given. we know why

I can give you a BUNCH OF THEM.

Go back to page 1, read my first two POSTS, you will find Most of them.

 

[azamzimtoti]

So there a lot of post in this thread and I've only read but two, maybe three. I wonder if anyone addressed the following verse :

Revelation 18:23

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

I'm not sure the bride is the church, gentile or Jews? I think that is talking about something else, not sure. Can anyone address this verse?

John is speaking of Jerusalem (aka Babylon) that was destroyed by the Romans.

(Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth)

(Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.)

(Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.)

(Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! )

 

[Anidod]

John is speaking of Jerusalem (aka Babylon) that was destroyed by the Romans.

(Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth)

(Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.)

(Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.)

(Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! )

Ok

 

[VCO]

Well I do know when one uses "the" it is a specific reference to something, as opposed to 'a" which is general reference.

However that doesn't mean I understand @VCO is stating?

So what part of my understanding, was vague to you ? ? ? I will be happy to explain it better.

 

[KJV1611]

I have a pretty denominationally nuetral commentary, by Dr. William MacDonald. In his Commentary, he writes on Gal. 4:26, these comments:

"4:26 The capital city of those who are justified by faith is the heavenly Jerusalem. It is the mother of all believers, both Jew and Gentile.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding."

So I would agree that the Heavenly Jerusalem, is kind of a mother to EVERYONE who has the FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

Romans 4:3 (KJV)
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Let me add another scripture to the discussion.

Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Jesus pointing toward all the believers gathered around him calls them his mother... do you think he is telling us that they are heavenly Jerusalem the mother of us all?

Keep in mind that he calls them HIS MOTHER. If he is not referring to them as Jerusalem above then what is he referring to?

 

[VCO]

Thinking about it. Its like a cat fight get then nails out. who is the wife... no hair pulling..LOL.

Yes the church. God creating a bride that he can dwell with and love forever as a faithful wife. The one that is first described (Genesis 3:15) her husband promised to crush the head her nemesis, the father of lies also called the strange woman who seeks to fornicate with gods.

A few examples as to how the metaphor "strange woman" is used .

Judges 11:2And Gilead's wife bare him sons; and his wife's sons grew up, and they thrust out Jephthah, and said unto him, Thou shalt not inherit in our father's house; for thou art the son of a strange woman.

Proverbs 2:16To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words;

Proverbs 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:

The bride as the mother of us all is made up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual unseen house of God, the heavenly Jerusalem . She will come down on the last day.

The first recorded member as part of the chaste virgin bride spoken of Timothy Paul as a surrogate womb. Paul holding out the gospel seed in hope Christ would form it. The hope of evangelist build her up. Abel the first murdered martyr a s a chaste virgin bride .

Below the Spirit of Christ uses Paul to represent the bride of Christ. Knowing what we are is not what we will be (1 John 3:2)

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Again in another parable

2 Corinthians 11:2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

And the Amil position which supports the signified language of Revelation does work best when trying to reconcile the bride of Christ first spoken of.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The reason I consider the TRUE Old Testament Jews, Co-equal part of the BRIDE OF CHRIST is:

They Believed GOD would send a Messiah to pay of their sins.

AND

We Believe GOD did send a Messiah to pay for our sins.


THAT IS THE SAME FAITH, the Faith of Abraham.

Jesus did not use the word CHURCH AT ALL. LOOK IT UP. HE called us the ASSEMBY He has built, the exact same thin as HE call the O.T. Saints.


Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

 

[VCO]

Let me add another scripture to the discussion.

Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Jesus pointing toward all the believers gathered around him calls them his mother... do you think he is telling us that they are heavenly Jerusalem the mother of us all?

Keep in mind that he calls them HIS MOTHER. If he is not referring to them as Jerusalem above then what is he referring to?

No, not at all. In verse 47, that is his real Mother and Brothers. In verse 48, He is focusing HIS DEITY and HIS LORDSHIP, in saying that.
And in verse 48, He is showing them that as his chosen disciples, these are also FAMILY TO ME. I think you were trying to read too much into those verses.

 

[garee]

So there a lot of post in this thread and I've only read but two, maybe three. I wonder if anyone addressed the following verse :

Revelation 18:23

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

I'm not sure the bride is the church, gentile or Jews? I think that is talking about something else, not sure. Can anyone address this verse?

It really has more to do with the source of belief (faith) or non belief (no faith) never flesh and blood against flesh and blood. . The strange woman as a city , verses the bride of Christ the church.

It can be seen in the parable below ."The parable of two women" .Like that of the ten virgins.Two kinds of mothers .

Strange woman Babylon fornicated with false gods.

Terrible! How terrible for the great city! She was dressed in fine linen; she wore purple and scarlet cloth.She was shining with gold, jewels, and pearls!All these riches have been destroyed in one hour!’“Every sea captain, all those who travel on ships, the sailors, and all those who earn money from the sea stood far away from Babylon. They saw the smoke from her burning. They cried out, ‘There was never a city like this great city!’ They threw dust on their heads and cried loudly to show the deep sorrow they felt. They said . .Terrible! How terrible for the great city! All those who had ships on the sea became rich because of her wealth! But she has been destroyed in one hour! Be happy because of this, O heaven! Be happy, God’s holy people and apostles and prophets!
God has punished her because of what she did to you.’” Then a powerful angel picked up a large rock. This rock was as big as a large millstone. The angel threw the rock into the sea and said,

“That is how the great city of Babylon will be thrown down.It will never be found again. O Babylon, the music of people playing harps and other instruments, flutes and trumpets will never be heard in you again.No worker doing any job will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.

The light of a lamp (Christ)will never shine in you again. The voices of a bridegroom and bride( true Church)will never be heard in you again Your merchants were the world’s great people. " All the nations" were tricked by your magic.Revelation 18 :15-23

All the nations" were tricked by your magic. Including the Jewish.

No longer could the strange woman as resident of the city of Babylon be used as a representative glory. The true glory has come down prepared as the eternal bride.

Christian the new name he name his bride the church With no other meaning added Christian simply mean residents if the city of Christ as his wife .Named by God not by men after her founder Christ .The suffix . . . ian denotes residents thereof.

 

[KJV1611]

No, not at all. In verse 47, that is his real Mother and Brothers. In verse 48, He is focusing HIS DEITY and HIS LORDSHIP, in saying that.
And in verse 48, He is showing them that as his chosen disciples, these are also FAMILY TO ME. I think you were trying to read too much into those verses.

The disciples were born from above (heavenly Jerusalem) and Jesus was born from above so why would verse 48 just be a figure of speech?

 

[garee]

The reason I consider the TRUE Old Testament Jews, Co-equal part of the BRIDE OF CHRIST is:

They Believed GOD would send a Messiah to pay of their sins.

AND

We Believe GOD did send a Messiah to pay for our sins.


THAT IS THE SAME FAITH, the Faith of Abraham.

Jesus did not use the word CHURCH AT ALL. LOOK IT UP. HE called us the ASSEMBY He has built, the exact same thin as HE call the O.T. Saints.


Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Yes the gates of hell could never prevail against the gospel. . its the key that loosens and binds, just like a literal chain .

If the assembly he built with many lively stones does make up the spiritual unseen house of God. Why would a person shy from calling her the church? What's the outcome? Two brides, two gospels ?

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

It would seem Jesus had faced that idea the bride of Christ as his eternal wife the invisable church was challenged to make it about the flesh of one nation against that of another. One of the think not doctrines ..

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

 

[garee]

No, not at all. In verse 47, that is his real Mother and Brothers. In verse 48, He is focusing HIS DEITY and HIS LORDSHIP, in saying that.
And in verse 48, He is showing them that as his chosen disciples, these are also FAMILY TO ME. I think you were trying to read too much into those verses.

Yes real brothers and sisters that are really born from above. If any man has not the born again Spirit of Christ then neither do they belong to Him.

He came to His own and they crucified Him.

No human familiarity with God. Luke warm. . . . he spews out familiarity

He is not a man as us . One of the purposes for parables through a dark glass ...they give light to reveal the mysteries.

 

[VCO]

So there a lot of post in this thread and I've only read but two, maybe three. I wonder if anyone addressed the following verse :

Revelation 18:23

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

I'm not sure the bride is the church, gentile or Jews? I think that is talking about something else, not sure. Can anyone address this verse?

I think it is BOTH N.T. Saints and the O.T. Saints. I think they are the TWO Folds, that will become ONE FLOCK under ONE SHEPHERD at the Rapture, that Jesus talked about.

John 10:16 (HCSB)
16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

I came to that conclusion AFTER someone on another thread challenged me to find out that JESUS and the Apostles Never use the word Church. That was adopted, about 200 years after the BIBLE was first published. They use the word ASSEMBLY, the exact same thing HE called the O.T. Saints.

The only version that I found that was using the original word, was Young's Literal Translation.
Such as:

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

 

[VCO]

So there a lot of post in this thread and I've only read but two, maybe three. I wonder if anyone addressed the following verse :

Revelation 18:23

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

I'm not sure the bride is the church, gentile or Jews? I think that is talking about something else, not sure. Can anyone address this verse?

Oh man, I should not be typing this late at night, 1:30 AM. I just lost the bottom have of the Post. I wanted to answer your question on Rev. 18:23. It is not referring to the Rapture or even us. It is their LITERALLY will be NO Marriage or Celebration, or Wedding Feasts, UNTIL MESSIAH IS KING OVER ALL THE EARTH. I cannot refer to us, because we will be back to reign as Priests in the Temple, and it cannot refer to 144,000 who are saved in their Mortal Bodies to repopulate Israel after the WAR when the LORD retakes the Earth, and sets up his 1000 year KINGDOM, because the MORTALS will be Marrying in the KINGDOM. Here is the Verse Where our Messiah will be KING OF ALL THE EARTH.

Zechariah 14:9 (HCSB)
9 On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.


Save that verse, because that is the BEST VERSE to prove to doubters that YAHWEH is JESUS CHRIST.

Night All.

 

[VCO]

The disciples were born from above (heavenly Jerusalem) and Jesus was born from above so why would verse 48 just be a figure of speech?

Born From Above, is just a synonym for BORN AGAIN. Jesus is DEITY, always has been, and always will be.

 

[wattie]

Here is a thought...

Where in the bible is every believer called 'the church' ?

Matthew 16:18 has Jesus referring to the church.. but this would be in the sense of the institution of the church... of local and visible churches plural. Why?

Because Jesus refers to local church discipline with 'tell it to the church' in Matthew 18:16.
Why would He refer to a church of every believer then switch to a different meaning in Matthew 18?

 

[Melach]

I can give you a BUNCH OF THEM.

Go back to page 1, read my first two POSTS, you will find Most of them.

all of those are second coming passages though. thats how i look at them.

 

[Melach]

rapture is talked about all the time in american(and american influenced) churches and its up for anyone to guess which is a second coming verse which is a rapture verse, because of unnecessary division to force a doctrine. if you have seen those charts that compare the so called rapture passages to second coming passages you cant help but laugh because is the second coming doom and gloom? yes if you are unsaved. if you are saved its great. no need to separate it as "rapture pleasant event, comfort" "second coming doom and gloom, destruction"

the rapture is nothing but the resurrection on the last day. thats all it is. resurrection. thats what the word means. dead in Christ shall rise first means resurrection. those who are alive at that time will be instantly transformed into resurrection bodies. nothing more to it than that.
the purpose of the resurrection isnt to save people from distress or harm. pre-trib doesnt preach in china.

i wish the word rapture dies a quick death and we go back to the word resurrection what it actually is. just so complicated. lets go back to the simplicity

 

[KJV1611]

Born From Above, is just a synonym for BORN AGAIN. Jesus is DEITY, always has been, and always will be.

I agree that Jesus is deity, but even Jesus himself said he had a birth. He was born from above, he came from above.

Joh 18:37 (KJV) Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

 

[Absolutely]

all of those are second coming passages though. thats how i look at them.

The gathering verses,save the one gathering FROM HEAVEN BY ANGELS NOT BY JESUS,ARE ALL PRETRIB,PEACETIME,NORMAL,EVERYDAY LIFE,INCLUDING BUSINESS AND COMMERCE.
Every gathering verse
One taken\left
Lot
Noah
5 wise virgins

Same with the escape verses.

We stand on the word.
Jesus gave vivid examples of the PRETRIB gathering.
Paul nailed it with 1 thes 4

Only pretrib fits on many,many counts.

The bible ends in a pretrib rapture prayer.
Come Lord Jesus.

Only the spirit and the bride pray.

It says only the spirit and bride looks to heaven and calls on Jesus to catch us away.

Thats the deal

Only pretribs believe it and pray it.

No other position has that dynamic.
Every time the rapture debate develops,the Jesus coming pretrib dynamic is framed as evil and weak escapism.

I will continue to pray as Jesus said.

Postribs look to the ac to come. The false christ.

There is another clue.
Who were the brides looking for in mat 25 ?
Were they depicted in peacetime (as also were noah and lot) ,or in the mother of all wars?

Pretrib rapture,big time