Galatian Conundrums
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For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:25-29 NASB
One gospel, all dealing with the heart, by His spirit.
I just do not understand this 2 gospel thing...
Let's look at this....
remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. A nd H e came and preached peace to you who were far away , and peace to those who were near ; for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
Ephesians 2:12-22 NASB
Seems pretty clear to me. If Jesus made two groups one, tearing down the dividing wall, why must we attempt to put it back up?
Romans 2:25-29 NASB
One gospel, all dealing with the heart, by His spirit.
I just do not understand this 2 gospel thing...
Let's look at this....
remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. A nd H e came and preached peace to you who were far away , and peace to those who were near ; for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
Ephesians 2:12-22 NASB
Seems pretty clear to me. If Jesus made two groups one, tearing down the dividing wall, why must we attempt to put it back up?
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The word gospel simply means good news.
What was the good news preached to Abraham in genesis?
What was the good news preached to the Jews when Jesus was in the flesh?
What is the good news now that Paul urge all of us to preach now to unbelievers?
Is it that incredible to conclude that these three types of good news are fundamentally different?
What was the good news preached to Abraham in genesis?
What was the good news preached to the Jews when Jesus was in the flesh?
What is the good news now that Paul urge all of us to preach now to unbelievers?
Is it that incredible to conclude that these three types of good news are fundamentally different?
The good news is Jesus, and that He is the way the truth and the life, that faith in Him is counted as righteousness.
Galatians 3:8
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “A ll the nations will be blessed in you .”
Galatians 3:8 NASB
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.
Romans 3:1-2 NASB
The different ways the message was delivered does not change the message.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."
Romans 1:16-17 ESV
Galatians 3:8
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “A ll the nations will be blessed in you .”
Galatians 3:8 NASB
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.
Romans 3:1-2 NASB
The different ways the message was delivered does not change the message.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."
Romans 1:16-17 ESV
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1 John 3: 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
Matthew 7:16-20, " 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Matthew 7:16-20, " 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
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Logical fallacies only go so far though...Our walk isn't "purely" based on logic. Although I do appreciate learning a very simple way to summarize that particular event so ty. Certainly something to bear in mind.
That's part of the issue I have with Apologetics but that's another discussion
That's part of the issue I have with Apologetics but that's another discussion
Wait now, I am not coming for you, just intrigued. Maybe some day we could pow wow about it in a thread. I'd like that.
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I have to admit I am a bit amused to see a Pauline Christian get accused of Galatian error. Can anybody say irony ? I never would have thought I`d see it. My fault really because I pushed Peter`s side instead of Paul`s It`s been fun working with you.
It`s been fun working with you.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/are-there-two-gospels-or-one.182029/
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-is-it-still-faith-only-for-salvation.185801/
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...mission-irrelevant-for-the-church-now.182210/
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-gospel-continues-to-be-misunderstood.184713/
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...els-written-specifically-to-jews-only.182228/
I think dispensationalists tend to stay away from this forum. My own impression is that this forum is populated more by people who lean towards Covenant Theology.
You are quoting everything from the Apostle Paul now, which is correct and relevant for today. That IS the only gospel any Christian should preach NOW, during the dispensation of grace.
But why are you unwilling to address the questions I raised about the gospel that WAS preached to Abraham (Hint:What saith the scripture in Genesis 12 and 15?), and the gospel that WAS preached to the Jews from Matthew to John?
But why are you unwilling to address the questions I raised about the gospel that WAS preached to Abraham (Hint:What saith the scripture in Genesis 12 and 15?), and the gospel that WAS preached to the Jews from Matthew to John?
1 John 2:3-7, " 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. 7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard."
Galatian 2
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Who knows what is going on in this passage?
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Who knows what is going on in this passage?
Why does Paul say "James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars"
Umm, they are pillars of the faith, they don't "seem" to be...
Revelation 21: 14 "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."
James, Cephas, and Johns names are on the foundation of the kindom, they are pillars...
Interesting you quoted this post right after you posted scripture by John. Do you realized that John was one of the 3 who agreed to restrict their ministry only to the Jews?
So when you quote a passage in 1 John 2:3-7, the question you may want to ask is, who was John writing to, the Jewish believers or the Body of Christ?
So when you quote a passage in 1 John 2:3-7, the question you may want to ask is, who was John writing to, the Jewish believers or the Body of Christ?
I apologize if my responses are not answering your questions.
Let me try again...
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:6 ESV
The day of Atonement in Leviticus sure does point to Christ, as well as the first fruits...
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2 ESV
Was not Jesus from the line of Abraham...
and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice."
Genesis 22:18 ESV
Maybe I am unable to answer your questions properly because I do not agree with you or do not understand.
Always was and always will be one gospel to me.
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:9-11 ESV
And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
1 Corinthians 1:30 ESV
Thank you for the discussion.
Let me try again...
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:6 ESV
The day of Atonement in Leviticus sure does point to Christ, as well as the first fruits...
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2 ESV
Was not Jesus from the line of Abraham...
and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice."
Genesis 22:18 ESV
Maybe I am unable to answer your questions properly because I do not agree with you or do not understand.
Always was and always will be one gospel to me.
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:9-11 ESV
And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
1 Corinthians 1:30 ESV
Thank you for the discussion.
False. and even if it were true they are pillars, they don't "seem" to be.
Caphas/Paeter was one of the 3, he was sent to gentiles.
Peter sent to gentiles:
Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."
(Peter preaching to gentiles shown in Acts 10)
and no none of them were only to Jews or even only to Israelites:
All disciples sent to all people:
Matthew 28:19-20, " 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Caphas/Paeter was one of the 3, he was sent to gentiles.
Peter sent to gentiles:
Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."
(Peter preaching to gentiles shown in Acts 10)
and no none of them were only to Jews or even only to Israelites:
All disciples sent to all people:
Matthew 28:19-20, " 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
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Let me break it down to you further.
Did God promise Abraham that God will send his son Jesus to die on the cross, be buried and will be raised from the dead to justify all those who believe in him in faith only, zero additional requirements required?
Likewise, did the 12 disciples, and Jesus himself, went around in Matthew to John preaching this same good news to all their Jewish listeners?
If your answer is yes, then I will agree with you there is indeed only ONE gospel preached throughout.
Did God promise Abraham that God will send his son Jesus to die on the cross, be buried and will be raised from the dead to justify all those who believe in him in faith only, zero additional requirements required?
Likewise, did the 12 disciples, and Jesus himself, went around in Matthew to John preaching this same good news to all their Jewish listeners?
If your answer is yes, then I will agree with you there is indeed only ONE gospel preached throughout.
I see, and you believed Peter understood this so clearly, such that he was so reluctant to go to Cornelius house until the Holy Spirit had to prompt him at least twice?
And when he reached there, he was so clear about Matt 28 instruction that he had to remind Cornelius that it was against the Law for him to be in the same house, and he even had to ask him in the tone of "What in the world am I doing here?"
And finally, he was so clear until he was astonished that the Gentiles actually received the Holy Spirit, before he even told them to repent and be baptized, like he did to the Jewish listeners in Acts 2?
And when he reached there, he was so clear about Matt 28 instruction that he had to remind Cornelius that it was against the Law for him to be in the same house, and he even had to ask him in the tone of "What in the world am I doing here?"
And finally, he was so clear until he was astonished that the Gentiles actually received the Holy Spirit, before he even told them to repent and be baptized, like he did to the Jewish listeners in Acts 2?
I see, and you believed Peter understood this so clearly, such that he was so reluctant to go to Cornelius house until the Holy Spirit had to prompt him at least twice?
And when he reached there, he was so clear about Matt 28 instruction that he had to remind Cornelius that it was against the Law for him to be in the same house, and he even had to ask him in the tone of "What in the world am I doing here?"
And finally, he was so clear until he was astonished that the Gentiles actually received the Holy Spirit, before he even told them to repent and be baptized, like he did to the Jewish listeners in Acts 2?
And when he reached there, he was so clear about Matt 28 instruction that he had to remind Cornelius that it was against the Law for him to be in the same house, and he even had to ask him in the tone of "What in the world am I doing here?"
And finally, he was so clear until he was astonished that the Gentiles actually received the Holy Spirit, before he even told them to repent and be baptized, like he did to the Jewish listeners in Acts 2?
I see, and you believed Peter understood this so clearly, such that he was so reluctant to go to Cornelius house until the Holy Spirit had to prompt him at least twice?
And when he reached there, he was so clear about Matt 28 instruction that he had to remind Cornelius that it was against the Law for him to be in the same house, and he even had to ask him in the tone of "What in the world am I doing here?"
And finally, he was so clear until he was astonished that the Gentiles actually received the Holy Spirit, before he even told them to repent and be baptized, like he did to the Jewish listeners in Acts 2?
Also why did you not speak on the verses I posted that disproved your stance but rather made it about thought you projected on to me? Honestly and respectfully, I say it should not be like that if we are having an real conversation.
I think it is clear to me that you subscribe to Covenant Theology, that is why you hold on to the belief that there is only ONE good news.
You see every promise that God made to mankind after Adam's fall, as all linked to Jesus Christ's death burial and resurrection. That is fine to me, it is a very popular way of interpreting scripture.
You see every promise that God made to mankind after Adam's fall, as all linked to Jesus Christ's death burial and resurrection. That is fine to me, it is a very popular way of interpreting scripture.
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