Thief on the Cross

[bluto]

Bluto believe what you want to believe. I share scriptures confirming concepts. You give opinions and are hung up on denominations.

Just an interesting concept I'd like to share: Twist a couple letters around and exclude a letter and denominations reads demon nations. There is clearly only one truth. And the only way to find it is by studying the Word. Not following traditions of denominations.

So what does twisting letters of words have to do with anything? That's like the founder of Christian Science Mary Baker Eddy taking the word "atonement" and saying it means, "at-one-ment." It means nothing just as I wrote what the Apostle Paul said at 2 Timothy 2:17, "But avoid worldly and EMPTY chatter, for it will lead to further ungodleness." And btw, you are following denominational teachings.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are you associated with the Church of Christ? Just asking.

While Church of Christ also teaches the necessity of water baptism for salvation (as do Mormons and Catholics), we are dealing here with the Oneness Pentecostal cult.

Here's what Wansvic said: "Jesus is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Do a search of the scriptures". The Bible says that Jesus is the name of the Son of God, NOT that of the Father or the Holy Ghost.

 

[1ofthem]

While Church of Christ also teaches the necessity of water baptism for salvation (as do Mormons and Catholics), we are dealing here with the Oneness Pentecostal cult.

Here's what Wansvic said: "Jesus is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Do a search of the scriptures". The Bible says that Jesus is the name of the Son of God, NOT that of the Father or the Holy Ghost.

Thanks, you guys for pointing this out to me. I've never had any dealing or interactions with Oneness Pentecostals. I was focusing more on the baptizing in a certain name aspect and wasn't even really getting the main aspect here. I know I've never read anywhere in scripture that Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, though.

Is this what some people call the Jesus only group? I've heard about it when I was very young and was always told to stay a away from it. So I pretty much just stayed away from it, I guess, and never even researched what they believed.

Anyhow thanks, for pointing it out!

 

[Wansvic]

While Church of Christ also teaches the necessity of water baptism for salvation (as do Mormons and Catholics), we are dealing here with the Oneness Pentecostal cult.

Here's what Wansvic said: "Jesus is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Do a search of the scriptures". The Bible says that Jesus is the name of the Son of God, NOT that of the Father or the Holy Ghost.

Consider what the Word says:
While praying to the Father, Jesus says He has revealed God's name to the world:

I have manifested (revealed) thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. John 17:6

During this prayer Jesus requests that the Father keep through His own name those He has given to Jesus. No one could take on the name of Jesus until after Jesus death, burial and resurrection. Afterward an individual had the work of Jesus as well as His name applied to them personally through their obedience in submitting to the spiritual burial through water baptism:

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. John 17:11


We are told to not be fooled by the tradition of men but to rely upon Jesus:

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him (JESUS) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:8-9

 

[Wansvic]

Are you associated with the Church of Christ? Just asking.

Like I said, I had a friend who was Church of Christ...This sounds much like his doctrine on Baptizing. So I'm just curious.

I've read all the scriptures and cannot see that using in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost would cause damnation, not truly being saved, or any such thing.

I don't even know if this is what your implying. I really am confused with this. You're saying it is personal choice after reading the scriptures...but what do you think will happen to me, if I make the wrong choice (according to your interpretation of the scripture).

Getting water baptized in Jesus' name has nothing to do with being connected to a specific denomination or church body. It is just what was instructed and done by the apostles specifically in the Book of Acts when the church was birthed. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul)

 

[Wansvic]

Once you understand Mid Acts dispensationalism, you will look back at what you are saying now and wonder "How in the world did I ever miss that?"

I looked up the concept you refer to. However, this does not coincide with the Word. If the instructions given to the Jewish population differed from what was required of the Gentiles and Samaritans they would not have been told to be obedient to them as well.

The record in Acts 10:44-48 is a perfect example. If the requirements were different, Peter would not have commanded the group be water baptized in Jesus' name after they had already received the Holy Ghost.

Also, throughout Paul's letters to established churches we see him making references to water baptism and what that baptism meant:
Paul’s Epistles - Spirit and water baptism (Rom 6:3-5, 1 Cor 1:15-16, 1 Cor 12:13, Gal 3:27, Eph 4:4-5, Col 2:12, Titus 3:5-6, Heb 4:1-2)

Rom 6:3-5 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:” THIS IS WATER BAPTISM. HOLY GHOST BAPTISM IS DONE BY GOD, AND IS NOT ADMINISTERED INTO JESUS CHRIST.

1 Cor 1:15-16 “Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.” ALL WATER BAPTISMS WERE PERFORMED USING A NAME. (JESUS)

1 Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” SPIRIT BAPTISM

Gal 3:2 “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” SPIRIT BAPTISM After hearing about the need to receive the Holy Ghost one steps out in faith to receive the gift.

Gal 3:27 (Water Baptism) “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Col 2:12 (Water Baptism) “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

Titus 3:5-6 (Water and Spirit Baptism) “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;”

Heb 4:1-2 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”

 

[1ofthem]

Getting water baptized in Jesus' name has nothing to do with being connected to a specific denomination or church body. It is just what was instructed and done by the apostles specifically in the Book of Acts when the church was birthed. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul)

Maybe it's just me, but I still don't get if you are saying those Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were baptized falsely and are thus not saved.

Also, I am not able to draw a connection from scriptures that you have posted that Jesus is the Name of the Father and the Holy Ghost.

 

[Wansvic]

Maybe it's just me, but I still don't get if you are saying those Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were baptized falsely and are thus not saved.

Also, I am not able to draw a connection from scriptures that you have posted that Jesus is the Name of the Father and the Holy Ghost.

While praying to the Father, Jesus says He has revealed God's name to the world:

I have manifested (revealed) thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. John 17:6

During this prayer Jesus requests that the Father keep through His own name those He has given to Jesus. No one could take on the name of Jesus until after Jesus death, burial and resurrection. Afterward an individual had the work of Jesus as well as His name applied to them personally through their obedience in submitting to the spiritual burial through water baptism:

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. John 17:11

The Holy Ghost is the actual Spirit of God. This is evidenced when one considers that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and she conceived Jesus. We know Jesus is the Son of God therefore the Holy Spirit/Ghost is God's Spirit.

We are told to not be fooled by the tradition of men but to rely upon Jesus:
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him (JESUS) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:8-9

As seen in the bible all water baptisms were administered in Jesus' name. This continued until around 325 a.d. when the forerunners of the Catholic Church decided that it should be changed to baptism in the name of the father, and the son and the holy ghost. There is much historical evidence available that backs up this statement.

For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:8

 

[Magenta]

Be mindful that JESUS told the thief on the cross that today you will be with me In paradise.

GOD loves righteousness and will do everything not only righteous but perfectly righteous.I will say that the thief on the cross wouldn't have been saved until JESUS finished HIS righteous work having mercy on us but satisfying the demand of the law which meant death for anyone breaking the law.

There was the purifying the flesh IMO this Is talking about the holy place and then their was the most holy place where only GOD can make your spirit perfect

Jesus did not go to the Father until after His resurrection three days later, and since heaven is God's abode, paradise cannot be heaven.

 

[Wansvic]

Maybe it's just me, but I still don't get if you are saying those Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were baptized falsely and are thus not saved.

Also, I am not able to draw a connection from scriptures that you have posted that Jesus is the Name of the Father and the Holy Ghost.

Also study what this scripture says:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6

 

[bluto]

Also study what this scripture says:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6

Well one thing is for certain from Isaiah 9:6, it's "NOT" teaching Jesus Christ is God the Father. Are you posting this verse to prove that Jesus Christ is God the Father? Yes or No?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Guojing]

I looked up the concept you refer to. However, this does not coincide with the Word. If the instructions given to the Jewish population differed from what was required of the Gentiles and Samaritans they would not have been told to be obedient to them as well.

The record in Acts 10:44-48 is a perfect example. If the requirements were different, Peter would not have commanded the group be water baptized in Jesus' name after they had already received the Holy Ghost.

Also, throughout Paul's letters to established churches we see him making references to water baptism and what that baptism meant:
Paul’s Epistles - Spirit and water baptism (Rom 6:3-5, 1 Cor 1:15-16, 1 Cor 12:13, Gal 3:27, Eph 4:4-5, Col 2:12, Titus 3:5-6, Heb 4:1-2)

Rom 6:3-5 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:” THIS IS WATER BAPTISM. HOLY GHOST BAPTISM IS DONE BY GOD, AND IS NOT ADMINISTERED INTO JESUS CHRIST.

1 Cor 1:15-16 “Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.” ALL WATER BAPTISMS WERE PERFORMED USING A NAME. (JESUS)

1 Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” SPIRIT BAPTISM

Gal 3:2 “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” SPIRIT BAPTISM After hearing about the need to receive the Holy Ghost one steps out in faith to receive the gift.

Gal 3:27 (Water Baptism) “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Col 2:12 (Water Baptism) “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

Titus 3:5-6 (Water and Spirit Baptism) “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;”

Heb 4:1-2 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”

The book of Acts is not a book of Christian doctrine. It contains what Luke described as the development post resurrection.

Peter was taught one gospel throughout the entire Matt-John by Jesus, the gospel of Jesus as the promised King, Son of God and Savior to the Jews.

He was taught explicitly that this gospel is not to be preached to the Gentiles and is only for the Jews (Matt 10:5)
He was taught that this gospel required water baptism as a sign of repentance (Mark 16:16)

Peter was astonished that God even accepted the Gentiles, so naturally he could only go back to that gospel that he was taught, to water baptize them. That does not mean they had to do it to be saved, Acts is not Christian doctrine, as I have stated.

As for Paul, he is referring to spirit baptism but I know your mind is already set there, so okay, we all come to the truth in our timing.

 

[JamOn]

The book of Acts is not a book of Christian doctrine. It contains what Luke described as the development post resurrection.

Peter was taught one gospel throughout the entire Matt-John by Jesus, the gospel of Jesus as the promised King, Son of God and Savior to the Jews.

He was taught explicitly that this gospel is not to be preached to the Gentiles and is only for the Jews (Matt 10:5)
He was taught that this gospel required water baptism as a sign of repentance (Mark 16:16)

Peter was astonished that God even accepted the Gentiles, so naturally he could only go back to that gospel that he was taught, to water baptize them. That does not mean they had to do it to be saved, Acts is not Christian doctrine, as I have stated.

As for Paul, he is referring to spirit baptism but I know your mind is already set there, so okay, we all come to the truth in our timing.

seems similar to

Eph 2
14For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace 16and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility.

17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

1 cor 12
12The body is a unit, though it is comprised of many parts. And although its parts are many, they all form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.

 

[Guojing]

seems similar to

Eph 2
14For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace 16and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility.

17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

1 cor 12
12The body is a unit, though it is comprised of many parts. And although its parts are many, they all form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.

Yeah, in the past, it was the Law of Moses, particularly circumcision, not water baptism, that separated Jews from Gentiles. Its quite obvious that water baptism would be no problems for most of the Gentiles who believe then to undergo, but circumcision was a different ball game altogether.

The issue of salvation in the OT was vague compared to under Paul's gospel.

But one aspect is quite clear: the Jews in the OT were not saved individually (unlike us now) , but were saved by being part of the collective Israel.

Gentiles could be saved in the OT, but only thru the Jews (Genesis 12:3) This means you have to be part of Israel, in order to be saved. But if you are cut off from the collective, there goes your salvation.

And under the covenant given to Abraham for all Jews, circumcision was necessary for anyone, those who refused to be circumcised were immediately cut off. The passage is found in Genesis 17

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

But thanks to the new gospel of grace given to Paul, which did away with circumcision and water baptism, the dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles was finally broken.

 

[Wansvic]

He was taught explicitly that this gospel is not to be preached to the Gentiles and is only for the Jews (Matt 10:5)
He was taught that this gospel required water baptism as a sign of repentance (Mark 16:16)

What is expressed in Matt 10:5 is not that the gospel was not to be preached to the Gentiles, but it had to be preached to the Jews FIRST. This is seen in Jesus interaction with the woman of Canaan as well:

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. Matt 15:24-26

Paul's words from Hebrews express that the salvation he teaches was first spoken of by Jesus and confirmed by the apostles and believers that heard Him:
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Heb 2:3

Notice again. The gospel preached to Gentiles by Paul was first preached to them (the Jews) but they refused to believe it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Heb 4:2

The Jews would not accept the salvation message so God opened salvation to the Gentiles so the Jews would become jealous.
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Rom 11:11

No where do we see a different gospel preached. We see the same message preached first to the Jews and later to the Gentiles and Samaritans. And Jesus said to preach the gospel to every creature; meaning all of mankind not just Jews. He said they who believe and are baptized shall be saved. If people don't believe the entire gospel message they are in fact damned already because in not believing they will not accept baptism as necessary.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:15-16

Consider what is meant by Jesus words in John 12:48. If someone receives not Jesus' words they are in fact rejecting Him. And in the last day those very words will judge each of us:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48

 

[JamOn]

Yeah, in the past, it was the Law of Moses, particularly circumcision, not water baptism, that separated Jews from Gentiles. Its quite obvious that water baptism would be no problems for most of the Gentiles who believe then to undergo, but circumcision was a different ball game altogether.

The issue of salvation in the OT was vague compared to under Paul's gospel.

But one aspect is quite clear: the Jews in the OT were not saved individually (unlike us now) , but were saved by being part of the collective Israel.

Gentiles could be saved in the OT, but only thru the Jews (Genesis 12:3) This means you have to be part of Israel, in order to be saved. But if you are cut off from the collective, there goes your salvation.

And under the covenant given to Abraham for all Jews, circumcision was necessary for anyone, those who refused to be circumcised were immediately cut off. The passage is found in Genesis 17

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

But thanks to the new gospel of grace given to Paul, which did away with circumcision and water baptism, the dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles was finally broken.

In the OT there was a lot of decrees of salvation, the commandments, sin offerings, burnt offerings, washing the clothes, the body, the house all kinds of things. the ones who taught these things were the Pharisees and Sadducees who would wash their body’s before placing the priestly clothes on. I think they were taking a lot more from the people also.

Levi 16
4He is to wear the sacred linen tunic, with linen undergarments. He must tie a linen sash around him and put on the linen turban. These are sacred garments, and he must bathe himself with water before he wears them. 5And he shall take from the congregation of the Israelites two male goats for a sin offering and one ram for a burnt offering.

32The priest who is anointed and ordained to succeed his father as high priest shall make atonement. He will put on the sacred linen garments 33and make atonement for the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting, and the altar, and for the priests and all the people of the assembly

John baptized Jesus which must of been symbolic for he was without sin, the two men came together to finish the decree. After allowing the disciples to continue the decree until John was arrested and died in prison. Jesus with his disciples went back to Galilee where a storm arise and the disciples where in a boat struggling. Jesus didn’t immerse into the water he flat out walked on top of the water and when out and called to peter, to come walking on top of the water too.

after Johns arrest there is no more mentioning of baptizing people in water in the four gospels. And Jesus goes on to preach to many more people in the four gospels.

 

[Wansvic]

But thanks to the new gospel of grace given to Paul, which did away with circumcision and water baptism, the dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles was finally broken.

The new gospel of grace WAS NOT given 1st to Paul.
The gospel of grace was first provided to the Jews and afterward to the Gentiles by Peter. (Acts 2:38; 10:44-48) Philip then shared it with the Samaritans. And Peter along with John showed up later and laid hands upon them to receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:12-17)

Later Ananias is sent by God to instruct Paul that God intends to use him to share the gospel and that he is not to wait but get baptized in Jesus' name. (Acts 22:16)

Paul shares Isaiah's prophecy concerning all of this. The prophecy was that the Jews would not accept of the gospel so the gospel was going to be open to the Gentiles:
"And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. Acts 28:25-28

 

[Wansvic]

In the OT there was a lot of decrees of salvation, the commandments, sin offerings, burnt offerings, washing the clothes, the body, the house all kinds of things. the ones who taught these things were the Pharisees and Sadducees who would wash their body’s before placing the priestly clothes on. I think they were taking a lot more from the people also.

Levi 16
4He is to wear the sacred linen tunic, with linen undergarments. He must tie a linen sash around him and put on the linen turban. These are sacred garments, and he must bathe himself with water before he wears them. 5And he shall take from the congregation of the Israelites two male goats for a sin offering and one ram for a burnt offering.

32The priest who is anointed and ordained to succeed his father as high priest shall make atonement. He will put on the sacred linen garments 33and make atonement for the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting, and the altar, and for the priests and all the people of the assembly

John baptized Jesus which must of been symbolic for he was without sin, the two men came together to finish the decree. After allowing the disciples to continue the decree until John was arrested and died in prison. Jesus with his disciples went back to Galilee where a storm arise and the disciples where in a boat struggling. Jesus didn’t immerse into the water he flat out walked on top of the water and when out and called to peter, to come walking on top of the water too.

after Johns arrest there is no more mentioning of baptizing people in water in the four gospels. And Jesus goes on to preach to many more people in the four gospels.

The four gospels speak primarily of the truth of who Jesus was; as seen through His life, ministry, death, burial, resurrection. The spiritual re-birth experience, of which water baptism is a part was not available to anyone until after Jesus' resurrection. The Book of Acts details what the apostles did in connection with what Jesus had taught them while He lived here with them for years.

John's baptism of repentance was introduced in the gospels. However, the act was modified as recorded in the Book of Acts to include the use of Jesus' name. This is because the spiritual re-birth, designed by God, wherein ones sins are remitted could not take place until after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Through our obedience we die with Him spiritually and are buried with Him in the waters of baptism having our sins forgiven by the blood of Jesus. We break forth from the water into a new creation in Christ Jesus. Also required is the infiltration of God's Holy Spirit into our bodies. This is what is meant by us being the temple of God. We house God's Spirit in our mortal bodies and are empowered to walk in His ways.

 

[JamOn]

The four gospels speak primarily of the truth of who Jesus was; as seen through His life, ministry, death, burial, resurrection. The spiritual re-birth experience, of which water baptism is a part was not available to anyone until after Jesus' resurrection. The Book of Acts details what the apostles did in connection with what Jesus had taught them while He lived here with them for years.

John's baptism of repentance was introduced in the gospels. However, the act was modified as recorded in the Book of Acts to include the use of Jesus' name. This is because the spiritual re-birth, designed by God, wherein ones sins are remitted could not take place until after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Through our obedience we die with Him spiritually and are buried with Him in the waters of baptism having our sins forgiven by the blood of Jesus. We break forth from the water into a new creation in Christ Jesus. Also required is the infiltration of God's Holy Spirit into our bodies. This is what is meant by us being the temple of God. We house God's Spirit in our mortal bodies and are empowered to walk in His ways.

So the thief was out of luck, written off, no salvation to be had by Jesus? who was the first to go of the three.

 

[1ofthem]

Actually the thief was in a better situation than most:

Philippians 1:21-30 King James Version (KJV)
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: