If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

[garee]

Well, the King James that you're using there says
bow down unto

Then the King James also says
Psalm 5: 7. But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I
worship toward
thy holy temple.

So again, is the pope bowing down unto? Or worshipping towards?

I think we would have to know what was in his heart at the time.
I suggest we let God be the judge of that, so we don't keep going around and around on the same thing. Does that sound good to you?

Its not in reference the a temple seen standing as the unseen holy place. When Jesus said it is finished its lost its purpose to represent the pagan form of Government.. The Unholy place.

The unseen eternal is what we seek after as the power that does work in us to both will and do His good pleasure .

We are the temple we do not bow down to our own selves as those who do venerate men that lord it over the non venerable pew sitters.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

We walk by faith not as if the kingdom came by observation.

 

[Dan_473]

Pope is bowing Down unto. What ever in his heart bowing Down unto Mary statue is prohibit.

Pope is like other catholic If they pray to Mary they may bowing Down unto the statue of Mary, If they pray to st Peter they bowing Down unto peter statue

Acts 10:25-26 King James Version (KJV)

25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

Read verse 26, why peter say stand up?

I believe Cornelius wasn't stand up or bow unto Peter.

When Peter alive he do not want people bowing Down unto him, do you think after he die he change his mind and want catholic bowing Down unto his statue?

I don't think so, catholic is pagan religion and the way their pray copy pagan way of pray

Of course you can assume that the pope is bowing down unto instead of worshipping toward. That would simply be your assumption.

 

[Dan_473]

Images are neutral not evil in themselves .

Bowing down to them shows where a person's heart is. Catholicism utilizes another source of faith other that as it written.

They have 3500 and rising what they call patron saints (workers with familiar spirits) And the Bible call a abomination of desolation as a witness against them .

Yes, bowing down unto is forbidden, worshipping toward is not.

How that is applied is a matter of interpretation, and as we talked about many times before, Protestants tend to view the Bible as properly interpreted by the individual, Catholics view it as interpreted by the body of Christ as a whole.

So of course people will arrive at different conclusions.

 

[Dan_473]

Its not in reference the a temple seen standing as the unseen holy place. When Jesus said it is finished its lost its purpose to represent the pagan form of Government.. The Unholy place.

The unseen eternal is what we seek after as the power that does work in us to both will and do His good pleasure .

We are the temple we do not bow down to our own selves as those who do venerate men that lord it over the non venerable pew sitters.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

We walk by faith not as if the kingdom came by observation.

Psalm 5: 7. But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.

If you mean that this refers to an unseen Temple, then I would disagree.

 

[garee]

Your conclusion would be in error.

Bottom line
It it isn't really possible to provide a reasonable description of the history of the 66 book Canon without talking about church tradition.

Many people cringe at that idea, so they look for any possible way they can find to get around it.

Church tradition? God moved the holy men of old to record his thoughts. Not their private interpretations? That one?



1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Big difference between the temporal things of corrupted men seen. . and eternal incorruptible word of God not seen.

Got Peter the serial denier in deep trouble and this is right after he according to Catholisicim attributed as the key that the gates of hell could not prevail against .it did prevail .He was forgiven of his blasphemy against the son of man .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, "Satan": thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16:22-23

I would say study the difference between the DEVINE things of God and the temporal things of men . You might want to re-visit your own source of faith. CCC

I would think those fathers would at least given the Sacred Scriptures the first in there list of the Devine. Shows where their heart is. .Bowing down to another authority (the things of men.... like Peter above.) they have made Devine other than as it is written (sola scriptura) Making soal scriptura without effect .No man can serve two teaching masters .The things of men seen and those of God not seen .Study what faith is and how it works in the Bible .Studying the fathers private interpretations will not provide the kind of faith that comes from hearing God alone.

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 80 - scborromeo.org

80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same DEVINE well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal.

 

[garee]

Yes, bowing down unto is forbidden, worshipping toward is not.

How that is applied is a matter of interpretation, and as we talked about many times before, Protestants tend to view the Bible as properly interpreted by the individual, Catholics view it as interpreted by the body of Christ as a whole.

So of course people will arrive at different conclusions.

Protestants I would offer tend to view the Bible as properly interpreted by the excellency of the power coming from God not seen , and not of us His bride the church .

Worship toward where? God does not dwell in images made with human hands? Jesus said his flesh propfits for nothing its the unseen work of the Spirt that can.

The power to seek his approval according to his loving commandment as our promised teacher comforter and guide is that which we have is in us. Blasphemy to think it is of us. (2 Timothy 2:15)

Why would look to or towards a image rather than. . . . all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) .Would that be walking by faith and if in so in respect to whose faith? Those called Patrons saints as workers with familiar spirit (3500 and rising a Legion)?

What do we do with the one infallibly prescribed manner as the one source of faith? Why hallow and venerate names (3500 and rising) picking up speed it would seem?.

Matthew 6:9 After "this" manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

No other prescribed manner

We are the temple as earthen vessels .

2 Corinthians 4:7 King James But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 4:6-8 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) God once said, “Let light shine out of the darkness!” And this is the same God who made his light shine in our hearts to let us know that his own divine greatness is seen in the face of Christ. We have this treasure from God, (not the church) but we are only like clay jars that hold the treasure. This is to show that the amazing power we have is from God, not from us. We have troubles all around us, but we are not defeated. We often don’t know what to do, but we don’t give up.

 

[notuptome]

Your conclusion would be in error.

Bottom line
It it isn't really possible to provide a reasonable description of the history of the 66 book Canon without talking about church tradition.

Many people cringe at that idea, so they look for any possible way they can find to get around it.

Many things are not evident in our discourse. Your perception is your reality. The bible stands apart and above church traditions especially those of the Roman catholic church.

The bible either you believe it or you don't. Either God spoke it or it is not reliable. Men can only attest to it's validity or argue against it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CharliRenee]

1. Worshipping the creation, for example Mary and the saints, instead of the creator.

2. Do not refer to humans as Father,
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.
Matthew 23:9‭-‬10 NASB

To add anything to Christ’s work is to destroy it altogether.

 

[Jackson123]

Of course you can assume that the pope is bowing down unto instead of worshipping toward. That would simply be your assumption.

It is not my assumtion, It is fact oN the picture.

When Cornelius bow unto Peter, Peter not ask, are you bowing Down unto me or worshiping toward me.

Why Peter ask him to stand up, I believe Peter not agree both.

Worship toward temple is in OT because God was demonstrate present in the temple

2 Chronicles 5:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.

So toward temple basically toward God

 

[Dan_473]

Church tradition? God moved the holy men of old to record his thoughts. Not their private interpretations? That one?



1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Big difference between the temporal things of corrupted men seen. . and eternal incorruptible word of God not seen.

Got Peter the serial denier in deep trouble and this is right after he according to Catholisicim attributed as the key that the gates of hell could not prevail against .it did prevail .He was forgiven of his blasphemy against the son of man .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, "Satan": thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16:22-23

I would say study the difference between the DEVINE things of God and the temporal things of men . You might want to re-visit your own source of faith. CCC

I would think those fathers would at least given the Sacred Scriptures the first in there list of the Devine. Shows where their heart is. .Bowing down to another authority (the things of men.... like Peter above.) they have made Devine other than as it is written (sola scriptura) Making soal scriptura without effect .No man can serve two teaching masters .The things of men seen and those of God not seen .Study what faith is and how it works in the Bible .Studying the fathers private interpretations will not provide the kind of faith that comes from hearing God alone.

Yes, God moved people to record his thoughts.

Which documents are that record?
A person can pick them out for themselves. Or a person can decide to use what large Christian groups in the past have used. That would be Church tradition.

 

[Dan_473]

Protestants I would offer tend to view the Bible as properly interpreted by the excellency of the power coming from God not seen , and not of us His bride the church .

Worship toward where? God does not dwell in images made with human hands? Jesus said his flesh propfits for nothing its the unseen work of the Spirt that can.

The power to seek his approval according to his loving commandment as our promised teacher comforter and guide is that which we have is in us. Blasphemy to think it is of us. (2 Timothy 2:15)

Why would look to or towards a image rather than. . . . all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) .Would that be walking by faith and if in so in respect to whose faith? Those called Patrons saints as workers with familiar spirit (3500 and rising a Legion)?

What do we do with the one infallibly prescribed manner as the one source of faith? Why hallow and venerate names (3500 and rising) picking up speed it would seem?.

Matthew 6:9 After "this" manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

No other prescribed manner

We are the temple as earthen vessels .

2 Corinthians 4:7 King James But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 4:6-8 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) God once said, “Let light shine out of the darkness!” And this is the same God who made his light shine in our hearts to let us know that his own divine greatness is seen in the face of Christ. We have this treasure from God, (not the church) but we are only like clay jars that hold the treasure. This is to show that the amazing power we have is from God, not from us. We have troubles all around us, but we are not defeated. We often don’t know what to do, but we don’t give up.

"the excellency of the power coming from God" to the individual?

 

[Dan_473]

Many things are not evident in our discourse. Your perception is your reality. The bible stands apart and above church traditions especially those of the Roman catholic church.

The bible either you believe it or you don't. Either God spoke it or it is not reliable. Men can only attest to it's validity or argue against it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

the issue I would take with what you wrote above is that there is more than one Bible.

It's not just the three major canons found today, Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox.

If one is willing to look at the history of the Bible, one can see that they were many, many questions in the early centuries.

 

[Dan_473]

1. Worshipping the creation, for example Mary and the saints, instead of the creator.

2. Do not refer to humans as Father,
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.
Matthew 23:9‭-‬10 NASB

To add anything to Christ’s work is to destroy it altogether.

Hi CharliRenee!

As I understand it, technically, Catholics do not worship Mary. Whether all Catholics understand the nuances involved or not is another question!

About calling someone father, again it might not be as clear as it seems at first. Paul says
1 Corinthians 4: 15. For though you have ten thousand tutors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, I became your father through the Good News.

 

[Dan_473]

It is not my assumtion, It is fact oN the picture.

When Cornelius bow unto Peter, Peter not ask, are you bowing Down unto me or worshiping toward me.

Why Peter ask him to stand up, I believe Peter not agree both.

Worship toward temple is in OT because God was demonstrate present in the temple

2 Chronicles 5:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.

So toward temple basically toward God

The assumption involved is what is in the Pope's heart.

In the picture he could be bowing down unto, or worshiping toward.

 

[Dan_473]

It is not my assumtion, It is fact oN the picture.

When Cornelius bow unto Peter, Peter not ask, are you bowing Down unto me or worshiping toward me.

Why Peter ask him to stand up, I believe Peter not agree both.

Worship toward temple is in OT because God was demonstrate present in the temple

2 Chronicles 5:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.

So toward temple basically toward God

Is the British prime minister Boris Johnson worshipping the queen here?
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/how-new-u...ohnson-is-related-to-the-queen-010650942.html

 

[Jackson123]

Is the British prime minister Boris Johnson worshipping the queen here?
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/how-new-u...ohnson-is-related-to-the-queen-010650942.html

No, the queen was alive, he not pray to the queen

This is bow before graven image

https://images.app.goo.gl/JKtboEqGABVJCP7J8

 

[Jackson123]

https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Roman Catholicism/pope4.jpg

 

[notuptome]

the issue I would take with what you wrote above is that there is more than one Bible.

It's not just the three major canons found today, Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox.

If one is willing to look at the history of the Bible, one can see that they were many, many questions in the early centuries.

So what. God has preserved His word and those who are moved by the Holy Spirit will hear the gospel message with great effect. Those who wish to be religious will argue there are many bibles and never come to the truth.

Look at the Savior and don't get drug into the arguments over the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dan_473]

No, the queen was alive, he not pray to the queen

This is bow before graven image

https://images.app.goo.gl/JKtboEqGABVJCP7J8

I'm not sure how you can say if he is praying or not, the queen is the head of the Church of England.

Is the man in the picture below worshipping a three dimensional object?

http://www.crossmyheartministry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/worship_cross.jpg

http://www.crossmyheartministry.com/2011/01/01/bow-down-worship/

 

[Dan_473]

So what. God has preserved His word and those who are moved by the Holy Spirit will hear the gospel message with great effect. Those who wish to be religious will argue there are many bibles and never come to the truth.

Look at the Savior and don't get drug into the arguments over the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So what? Well, if one is going to use the Bible as one's final authority for doctrine, then it follows that it is important to know what documents God has preserved as his word.

For example, I believe earlier you said that Catholics were wrong in their teaching about salvation. To arrive at that conclusion, you must have been comparing the Catholic teaching to something else, probably your personal interpretation of the Bible.

But this means that you have a list of what documents the Bible is composed of.

Did you come up with that list yourself, or did someone else pick it out for you? I assume it was someone else, so who was it?

At this point many people will say something like
It's what Christians have used over the centuries.

But which Christians? Were any of them Catholic? If so, why would one expect these heretical, misled Catholics to somehow have picked out the right scriptures?