Not By Works

[KJV1611]

why you say that? im dispensationalist i think. all pastors i listen to are. i think they have best sermons

whats wrong with dispensationalism?

I'm just saying that I was like Mac in that people were showing me verse after verse that proved dispensationalism to be wrong and I couldn't see it.

There are many threads on this already, I was just using it as an example.

 

[KJV1611]

One of the biggest eye openers for me was a complete study of grace and how the bible points to it as being a POSITION that believers are placed into by faith........it directly opposes the positioning of wrath that unbelievers are currently placed under.........

Romans 5.....IN the GRACE wherein we NOW STAND <----STANDING IN GRACE by faith........and then the literal translation of Ephesians 2 and how it clearly states IN THE GRACE YOU ARE <-----having been saved out of faith <--this is past tense and of course the phrase...and that NOT of yourselves is directed at the faith that SAVES and it being a GIFT......

THIS is ABSOLUTE proof of eternal security from not only the GREEK but the verse itself.......

THE calling and gifts of GOD are IRREVOCABLE........HE DOES NOT take BACK that which HE GIVES....and NOTE it is even directed at the CALLING OF GOD.....this is a deep TRUTH..........

I agree with you.

 

[Ruby123]

One of the biggest eye openers for me was a complete study of grace and how the bible points to it as being a POSITION that believers are placed into by faith........it directly opposes the positioning of wrath that unbelievers are currently placed under.........

Romans 5.....IN the GRACE wherein we NOW STAND <----STANDING IN GRACE by faith........and then the literal translation of Ephesians 2 and how it clearly states IN THE GRACE YOU ARE <-----having been saved out of faith <--this is past tense and of course the phrase...and that NOT of yourselves is directed at the faith that SAVES and it being a GIFT......

THIS is ABSOLUTE proof of eternal security from not only the GREEK but the verse itself.......

THE calling and gifts of GOD are IRREVOCABLE........HE DOES NOT take BACK that which HE GIVES....and NOTE it is even directed at the CALLING OF GOD.....this is a deep TRUTH..........

Hi DC,

Do you mean by the calling, the plan and purpose God has for your life?

 

[fredoheaven]

why you say that? im dispensationalist i think. all pastors i listen to are. i think they have best sermons

whats wrong with dispensationalism?

There's nothing wrong.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi DC,

Do you mean by the calling, the plan and purpose God has for your life?

Yes, but primarily directed at the CALL to salvation IMO, not that the whole gambit is not included.....from calling one to his kingdom through salvation, then on to the purpose God has for each and every person....but for sure the word CALLING is singular and GIFTS plural.....

Those whom he CALLS <-->HE JUSTIFIES.............IT would seem to point primarily at GOD calling one toward salvation.......but I am subject to a deeper understanding for sure if one can show me something different from the word....

 

[Ruby123]

I think I side tracked the flow of the conversation, carry on everyone..........

 

[dcontroversal]

He did not say faith alone saved you.

If I flip a switch and a light goes on, did the switch produce the light by itself

Hoe do I turn the light on?

Flip the switch

Wow. The switch did it all by itself

Sorry......your worldly analogy will not trump ALL the verses that use faith/belief/believe as the means of salvation BASED UPON GRACE.....and your sarcasm reeks of a losing position.......!

 

[Melach]

I think I side tracked the flow of the conversation, carry on everyone..........

dont worry dear. we have discussed all things under sun in 5470 pages. thanks for asking

 

[KJV1611]

Those whom he CALLS <-->HE JUSTIFIES.............IT would seem to point primarily at GOD calling one toward salvation.......but I am subject to a deeper understanding for sure if one can show me something different from the word....

I agree with this also, it certainly seems that God calls us.... I don't know what that "ism" is but that's what I believe the scripture teaches.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think I side tracked the flow of the conversation, carry on everyone..........

Ruby....my new WESTERN AU friend.....no question you ask will EVER side track this thread....we have covered 147 different topics and have chased rabbits down the proverbial "RED PILL HOLE" many times......it is all good....fire away

 

[Ruby123]

Ruby....my new WESTERN AU friend.....no question you ask will EVER side track this thread....we have covered 147 different topics and have chased rabbits down the proverbial "RED PILL HOLE" many times......it is all good....fire away

Cool, It is quite late here now so my brain is a little tired to ask any questions but no doubt I will at a later date. I don't always get notified of this thread for some reason.

 

[mailmandan]

Well I completely disagree on this ... James not is not writing about an empty profession of faith... since that is not faith, that only confuses what faith is..... faith is faith.

He is writing about faith that has become inoperative and not visible to other men by works.... since his letter is based on "the law of liberty" but how to be men of faith before other men.

We been here before Dan, but I hope you will reconsider since this dead faith is a problem especially from the OSAS standpoint, because something dead was once alive and that is basic laws of nature.

There is nothing for me to reconsider. Says/claims to have faith but has no works...can that faith save him?...faith without works is dead etc...

Throughout James chapter 2, we see a spurious faith (empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works) contrasted with authentic faith, the faith of Abraham that produces works. For the life of me I can’t figure out why you are unable to grasp this.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

 

[UnderGrace]

There is nothing for me to reconsider. Says/claims to have faith but has no works...can that faith save him?...faith without works is dead etc...

Throughout James chapter 2, we see a spurious faith (empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works) contrasted with authentic faith, the faith of Abraham that produces works. For the life of me I can’t figure out why you are unable to grasp this.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

So someone without visible works is not saved..... completely disagree, Sorry

 

[mailmandan]

Well I completely disagree on this ... James is not writing about an empty profession of faith... since that is not faith, that only confuses what faith is..... faith is faith.

So you believe ALL faith is the same whether it’s a bare profession of faith that produces no works or authentic faith that produces works?

Do you also believe that ALL belief is the same? In James 2:19, we read - You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! In Acts 16:31, we read - Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Are the demons saved?

 

[mailmandan]

So someone without visible works is not saved..... completely disagree, Sorry

Someone who merely claims to have faith, yet produces no works at all is not saved. All genuine believers are fruitful, although not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)

 

[CherieR]

Ruby....my new WESTERN AU friend.....no question you ask will EVER side track this thread....we have covered 147 different topics and have chased rabbits down the proverbial "RED PILL HOLE" many times......it is all good....fire away

 

[CherieR]

Someone who merely claims to have faith, yet produces no works at all is not saved. All genuine believers are fruitful, although not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)

What kind of works are you speaking of?

 

[mailmandan]

What kind of works are you speaking of?

James gives us an example in James 2:15-16.

 

[Macabeus]

Not like that at all...…...think on this....

ALMOST thou persuades me to be a Christian

MANY are CALLED but FEW chosen

MANY does not equal ALL
AND
FEW of the MANY called is even less

THE wicked go astray from the womb

AND we have all (probably) witnessed to some that we could see the conviction by their response and yet they failed to acknowledge in faith.....

MY view.....GOD is just and fair....the bible states that JESUS paid for the sins of the whole world, day unto day and night unto night testifies in every known language, even the invisible testifies, God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the truth, but he is fully aware that MEN love darkness and will not come to the light.....HE, based upon foreknowledge, calls whom he wills and deals unto them a measure of faith.....BUT man must ACT on that faith and confess that faith in order to be saved......

THIS IS NOT SAYING MAN X will be saved and MAN Z is just outta luck.......IT is open to all, but he will ONLY SAVE those that confess belief into HIS SON....<----AS FAR as the predetermined will of GOD-->HE predetermined BEFORE he cast down the world that ALL who come to HIM through his SON IN FAITH will BE received as HIS CHILDREN.......

I have a light in my room. The only way I can turn it on is to flip a switch. So I know that flipping the switch turns the light on. But I also know that the switch alone does not turn the light on by itself

 

[Macabeus]

One of the biggest eye openers for me was a complete study of grace and how the bible points to it as being a POSITION that believers are placed into by faith........it directly opposes the positioning of wrath that unbelievers are currently placed under.........

Romans 5.....IN the GRACE wherein we NOW STAND <----STANDING IN GRACE by faith........and then the literal translation of Ephesians 2 and how it clearly states IN THE GRACE YOU ARE <-----having been saved out of faith <--this is past tense and of course the phrase...and that NOT of yourselves is directed at the faith that SAVES and it being a GIFT......

THIS is ABSOLUTE proof of eternal security from not only the GREEK but the verse itself.......

THE calling and gifts of GOD are IRREVOCABLE........HE DOES NOT take BACK that which HE GIVES....and NOTE it is even directed at the CALLING OF GOD.....this is a deep TRUTH..........

When you did your word study of grace, did you miss the following verses?

Acts 4:33

acts 18:27

Romans 12:6

2 Peter 3:18