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E
We do not put ourselves back under condemnation. We prove we never had faith. A person who has true faith would never go back to law. Why would you go back to law and try to live the requirements of the law, which is imposible, if we truely believe and trust That God took care of the law.
The people who go back do not trust God, They might say they have, But they never did. As John said, The departed to prove they never were of us. They did not lose salvation. They never had it. If they did, and lost it, Paul lied, Christ lied, God lied.
The people who go back do not trust God, They might say they have, But they never did. As John said, The departed to prove they never were of us. They did not lose salvation. They never had it. If they did, and lost it, Paul lied, Christ lied, God lied.
Unfortunately, this is not what scripture teaches on this matter.
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. (Luke 8:13)
Jesus says that they "believe for a while." He does not say that they appear to believe, or that they have a false faith, but rather that they "believe," but it is only "for a while." It is temporary faith.
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:2)
Paul says "unless you believed in vain." So a person may believe, but the result of their faith has no eternal benefit. They may believe for a while; they may temporarily have faith, but it is in vain. Why? Because they do not continue to believe.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. (Romans 11:22)
Paul writes,
4 Have you suffered so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain? (Galatians 3:4)
11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain. (Galatians 4:11)
The Galatians had been swayed toward a false gospel (Galatians 1:6-9), and Paul was concerned that the things that they had originally suffered for Christ, and his efforts in bringing them to follow Christ, might turn out to have no eternal consequence, that they might end up in hell after all. Why? Because if they believed the true gospel for a while, but then were swayed toward following a false gospel, in doing so they would have turned away from Christ (Galatians 1:6) and no longer believed the truth. And this leads to hell, because Christ takes "vengeance" "on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 1:8; 1 Peter 4:17).
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, (Galatians 1:6)
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Thessalonians 1:8)
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17)
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. (Luke 8:13)
Jesus says that they "believe for a while." He does not say that they appear to believe, or that they have a false faith, but rather that they "believe," but it is only "for a while." It is temporary faith.
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:2)
Paul says "unless you believed in vain." So a person may believe, but the result of their faith has no eternal benefit. They may believe for a while; they may temporarily have faith, but it is in vain. Why? Because they do not continue to believe.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. (Romans 11:22)
Paul writes,
4 Have you suffered so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain? (Galatians 3:4)
11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain. (Galatians 4:11)
The Galatians had been swayed toward a false gospel (Galatians 1:6-9), and Paul was concerned that the things that they had originally suffered for Christ, and his efforts in bringing them to follow Christ, might turn out to have no eternal consequence, that they might end up in hell after all. Why? Because if they believed the true gospel for a while, but then were swayed toward following a false gospel, in doing so they would have turned away from Christ (Galatians 1:6) and no longer believed the truth. And this leads to hell, because Christ takes "vengeance" "on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 1:8; 1 Peter 4:17).
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, (Galatians 1:6)
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Thessalonians 1:8)
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17)
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M
Don't stop thinking. Thinkers may have to struggle with issues at times, but they eventually find answers and are stronger for it. "Consider what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things." (2 tim 2:7) If you fail to consider, you will fail to get understanding. It is worth the effort.
M
There is no doubt that salvation is the gift of God recieved by faith. But once in possession of the gift, we are expected to walk according to it. Certainly there is forgiveness for when we stumble (1 Jn 1:9), however, "if we sin willfully after we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain expectation of judgement, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, he will be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?" (Heb 10:26-29)
I stand secure in the grace of God, but to claim I could never walk away from it and lose salvation makes a mockery of this and other warnings in the NT. It would be as though God were warning me about something that could never happen.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go by it. Because narrow is the gate and confined is the way which leads to life , and there are few who find it." Matt 7:13-14 It is not simply a question of entering through the gate.(That is coming to Christ by faith.) One must stay on the way!
I stand secure in the grace of God, but to claim I could never walk away from it and lose salvation makes a mockery of this and other warnings in the NT. It would be as though God were warning me about something that could never happen.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go by it. Because narrow is the gate and confined is the way which leads to life , and there are few who find it." Matt 7:13-14 It is not simply a question of entering through the gate.(That is coming to Christ by faith.) One must stay on the way!
E
Before I start, I think we need to get a baseline here.
there are some people who think you can just "believe" jesus died on the cross, say a "sinners" prayer and your in,
I am NOT one of those people.
James makes it clear that mere belief will not save anyone "for even demons believe and tremble" It takes more than actual belief, it takes "true faith" And those who claim to believe but have a "dead" faith (proven by the fact they are not doing the words true faith will produce) show their belief was in vein.
John states that those who believe are born of God, Yet he makes a distinction by saying it is "faith" that gives us the power to believe. (and also the power to do righteous deeds, and LOVE) differentiating again the difference of those who believe, yet have no faith, who are not born again.
Paul speaks to those who "believe" but are trying to be justified by righteous deeds (works) or by the law (The traditions of the law, and the letter of the law, or obeying commands, and if fail, doing something to make up for the failure) That their belief will not save them. For their faith is not in Christ, but their works.
Then we have a third type, A person who claims to believe, may even be a part of the church for awhile, then decide this "Jesus thing" is not real, and become "anti-Christ" (chose not to believe at all. And John makes it clear., these people departed to prove thet they never were truly a part of the church.
so you see we have 4 types of people.
1. Believes in Jesus, but does not believe they are sinful, this you will see no change in their life, they live as they did in the world. These people were addressed by James and Jude and called Licentious. These would be people who say the sinners prayer, but did not mean it, because they really did not have faith it was real, Proven by the fact, they still live as they did before (no changed life thus no true repentance) and show no works. Jude condemns these people in a harsh way, staing the turn the "grace of God into licentiousness" The deny God by their actions.
2. Believe in Jesus, but add works of some kind to the gospel in an attempt to help Jesus in our salvation. (we must do something to make up for our wrongs, it can't be free)
3. Believe in Jesus for a time, then decide that Jesus is not real. and leave the church altogether. In other words, Jesus was a fad they were going through,
4. Those of true faith, who believe God when he said "all have sinned and fall short (literally missed the mark, which was the law) of the glory (perfection and just requirement he gave mankind to be able of our own merit get to heaven, or again the law) and thus are separated from God by the just penalty imposed by God for those who do not meet the just requirement of the law. (Death).
That we, being guilty are rightly condemned, and we can do nothing to make up for this condemnation, For the only penalty (eternal) is death, thus only death can be given as payment,
That Christ, came to earth, fulfilled the just requirement of the law (no sin) and suffered death (spiritual) on the cross. "My God My God why have you forsaken (departed) from me" This was his spiritual death, where Gods wrath we deserve was poured on him on our behalf.
That Christ then said "it (the plan of salvation) was finished (completed) then he died physically, and three days later was risen again (the firstfruits) and that because of this sacrifice, he is offering all mankind the gift of restoration to him based only on his sacrifice on the cross. And that whoever trusts God and receives this "gift" he is offering will receive eternal life, and be resurrected by him (not delivered to him) on the last day.
These people, Who truly trusted through true repentance (a change of heart) will have a changed life (might be gradual but will change) will show works that prove their repentance and faith was real, But will not be sinless.
I find it amazing, that the licentious Christian will call me a legalistic, works based condemning spirit because I question their salvation because I see no changed life or works. and those who believe that works (of any type) are essential for salvation will call me a person who states that if Hitler said the sinners prayer before he brutally murdered millions of Gods chosen, and millions of others, he is saved and in heaven, which is preposterous and ridiculous, and shows you do understand what it is I believe.
there are some people who think you can just "believe" jesus died on the cross, say a "sinners" prayer and your in,
I am NOT one of those people.
James makes it clear that mere belief will not save anyone "for even demons believe and tremble" It takes more than actual belief, it takes "true faith" And those who claim to believe but have a "dead" faith (proven by the fact they are not doing the words true faith will produce) show their belief was in vein.
John states that those who believe are born of God, Yet he makes a distinction by saying it is "faith" that gives us the power to believe. (and also the power to do righteous deeds, and LOVE) differentiating again the difference of those who believe, yet have no faith, who are not born again.
Paul speaks to those who "believe" but are trying to be justified by righteous deeds (works) or by the law (The traditions of the law, and the letter of the law, or obeying commands, and if fail, doing something to make up for the failure) That their belief will not save them. For their faith is not in Christ, but their works.
Then we have a third type, A person who claims to believe, may even be a part of the church for awhile, then decide this "Jesus thing" is not real, and become "anti-Christ" (chose not to believe at all. And John makes it clear., these people departed to prove thet they never were truly a part of the church.
so you see we have 4 types of people.
1. Believes in Jesus, but does not believe they are sinful, this you will see no change in their life, they live as they did in the world. These people were addressed by James and Jude and called Licentious. These would be people who say the sinners prayer, but did not mean it, because they really did not have faith it was real, Proven by the fact, they still live as they did before (no changed life thus no true repentance) and show no works. Jude condemns these people in a harsh way, staing the turn the "grace of God into licentiousness" The deny God by their actions.
2. Believe in Jesus, but add works of some kind to the gospel in an attempt to help Jesus in our salvation. (we must do something to make up for our wrongs, it can't be free)
3. Believe in Jesus for a time, then decide that Jesus is not real. and leave the church altogether. In other words, Jesus was a fad they were going through,
4. Those of true faith, who believe God when he said "all have sinned and fall short (literally missed the mark, which was the law) of the glory (perfection and just requirement he gave mankind to be able of our own merit get to heaven, or again the law) and thus are separated from God by the just penalty imposed by God for those who do not meet the just requirement of the law. (Death).
That we, being guilty are rightly condemned, and we can do nothing to make up for this condemnation, For the only penalty (eternal) is death, thus only death can be given as payment,
That Christ, came to earth, fulfilled the just requirement of the law (no sin) and suffered death (spiritual) on the cross. "My God My God why have you forsaken (departed) from me" This was his spiritual death, where Gods wrath we deserve was poured on him on our behalf.
That Christ then said "it (the plan of salvation) was finished (completed) then he died physically, and three days later was risen again (the firstfruits) and that because of this sacrifice, he is offering all mankind the gift of restoration to him based only on his sacrifice on the cross. And that whoever trusts God and receives this "gift" he is offering will receive eternal life, and be resurrected by him (not delivered to him) on the last day.
These people, Who truly trusted through true repentance (a change of heart) will have a changed life (might be gradual but will change) will show works that prove their repentance and faith was real, But will not be sinless.
I find it amazing, that the licentious Christian will call me a legalistic, works based condemning spirit because I question their salvation because I see no changed life or works. and those who believe that works (of any type) are essential for salvation will call me a person who states that if Hitler said the sinners prayer before he brutally murdered millions of Gods chosen, and millions of others, he is saved and in heaven, which is preposterous and ridiculous, and shows you do understand what it is I believe.
There is a 5th kind of christian, which you did not mention. (You decide if they are saved or not.)
They receive the Holy Spirit of God in faith, listen to Him and welcome Him in their hearts, seek always to be lead by Him in all things, and through His work, find fellowship with God the Father through Jesus Christ. In the Holy Spirit they have all truth, all understand, all life, and they listen to His voice and answer His promptings.
These are not under the Law, the Law is not their guide. God is their guide.
They receive the Holy Spirit of God in faith, listen to Him and welcome Him in their hearts, seek always to be lead by Him in all things, and through His work, find fellowship with God the Father through Jesus Christ. In the Holy Spirit they have all truth, all understand, all life, and they listen to His voice and answer His promptings.
These are not under the Law, the Law is not their guide. God is their guide.
E
now, with my last post as a baseline, I can now respond to these questions
On the contrary, It was belief minus faith. It is like a person who hears something new, and is excited for awhile, but like so many, this feeling is short lived, for they always return to what they really have faith in, and expose their true faith
Yet again, this is belief minus faith. for if their faith had been real, they would not have "departed"
The context of the passage is Israel vs the Gentiles. Israel had been cut off, and Gods dealing with them as a nation had been (cut off) and Gentiles had been grafted in. But if the gentiles turn from God, and Israel turns back to God, they will be grafted back in, and you (gentiles) will be "cut off"
Again, Context must always be followed when interpreting a verse. We can not take a verse out of context.
Again you have taken something out of context.
Gal 3: 2 - 4 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Paul is talking to people trying to add works to faith. Trying to "perfect their faith" with works (the flesh) He flat out asked them what they believed, did they get saved by works or by the spirit. Make up their mind what their faith is truly in.
This passage in context. actually speaks against those adding works to faith.
I would be afraid for them also. He taught them salvation by Graced (unearned merit) Yet they continued to believe in a salvation of works (the flesh, or good deeds) which means he was laboring in vein because they were rejecting his message of grace.
Again, I turn you to galations 3, where Paul asks them the truth, and demanded an answer, Did they believe in a gospel of works, or of grace. Was he wasting his time? or would they listen and trust what he was teaching.
Yet what were they doing? they were returning to the gospel they actually trusted in (a Gospel of works) proving they never trusted Paul, who was the messenger of grace.
Again these were the people who were planted on the rocks. Heard the message, Received it with joy, but when temptation ( a return to the law) came,k they fell away. Because their faith was not real, it was just a mere belief minus faith. There true faith was, and always has been, the law
Finally, what does Paul say in these verses. There is one gospel, anyone who teaches another is teaching a false gospel. Since he is condemning them for trying to perfect faith with works of the flesh, he is condemning a works based gospel.
What is a works based Gospel? A gospel that teaches you must do works in order to be saved, or a gospel (as he showed here) that believe you get saved by grace, but must "perfect" this faith with works. In other words, if you do not do these works, you will lose, or forfeit, or fall away from, your salvation. .
Lastly, Why has no one responded to the verses I posted. I alwas do this with the verses you post. Yet you guys do not, you post more verses.. Why not respond to the verses I posted, and show how I translated them wrong?
On the contrary, It was belief minus faith. It is like a person who hears something new, and is excited for awhile, but like so many, this feeling is short lived, for they always return to what they really have faith in, and expose their true faith
Yet again, this is belief minus faith. for if their faith had been real, they would not have "departed"
The context of the passage is Israel vs the Gentiles. Israel had been cut off, and Gods dealing with them as a nation had been (cut off) and Gentiles had been grafted in. But if the gentiles turn from God, and Israel turns back to God, they will be grafted back in, and you (gentiles) will be "cut off"
Again, Context must always be followed when interpreting a verse. We can not take a verse out of context.
Again you have taken something out of context.
Gal 3: 2 - 4 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Paul is talking to people trying to add works to faith. Trying to "perfect their faith" with works (the flesh) He flat out asked them what they believed, did they get saved by works or by the spirit. Make up their mind what their faith is truly in.
This passage in context. actually speaks against those adding works to faith.
I would be afraid for them also. He taught them salvation by Graced (unearned merit) Yet they continued to believe in a salvation of works (the flesh, or good deeds) which means he was laboring in vein because they were rejecting his message of grace.
Again, I turn you to galations 3, where Paul asks them the truth, and demanded an answer, Did they believe in a gospel of works, or of grace. Was he wasting his time? or would they listen and trust what he was teaching.
Yet what were they doing? they were returning to the gospel they actually trusted in (a Gospel of works) proving they never trusted Paul, who was the messenger of grace.
Again these were the people who were planted on the rocks. Heard the message, Received it with joy, but when temptation ( a return to the law) came,k they fell away. Because their faith was not real, it was just a mere belief minus faith. There true faith was, and always has been, the law
Finally, what does Paul say in these verses. There is one gospel, anyone who teaches another is teaching a false gospel. Since he is condemning them for trying to perfect faith with works of the flesh, he is condemning a works based gospel.
What is a works based Gospel? A gospel that teaches you must do works in order to be saved, or a gospel (as he showed here) that believe you get saved by grace, but must "perfect" this faith with works. In other words, if you do not do these works, you will lose, or forfeit, or fall away from, your salvation. .
Lastly, Why has no one responded to the verses I posted. I alwas do this with the verses you post. Yet you guys do not, you post more verses.. Why not respond to the verses I posted, and show how I translated them wrong?
E
Yeah but Jesus makes it clear. WHoever eats that flesh will;
1. Never hunger (meaning they will never have to eat it again)
2. Never thirst (blood) meaning they will never have to drink again
3. Has (not might have) eternal life
4. Given Christs solemn promise he will raise them (not have them delivered to him) on the last day.
5. Will never die.
Jesus is talking about a spiritual food here, which one does not eat over and over and still hungers (like manna) but in which one can eat and never die.
1. Never hunger (meaning they will never have to eat it again)
2. Never thirst (blood) meaning they will never have to drink again
3. Has (not might have) eternal life
4. Given Christs solemn promise he will raise them (not have them delivered to him) on the last day.
5. Will never die.
Jesus is talking about a spiritual food here, which one does not eat over and over and still hungers (like manna) but in which one can eat and never die.
E
A gift that is given by no merit, which then has to be earned by merit, is no longer a gift, and becomes a reward, or earned. Paul makes this clear.
Paul also calls those who believe we must "perfect our faith" with works "fools" (I am not calling anyone a fool, just stating Paul said this, and am not directing this at anyone, so please do not take me wrong)
He states if it is grace it is not of works, lest grace is no longer grace.
Our salvation is not just given by grace, it is kept by grace. we did not earn it before we received it (we were Gods enemy before) and we certainly will not be worthy of it after we have had it. For as John says, if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves. which is why I asked why someone could think they could ever be good enough to earn salvation. either before they received it, or even after they have had it for many years. Even Paul, at the end of his life. Did not think he earned it. He thanked God for the grace that was given to him.
Entering the gate:
A gate is an entrance.
God says it is the narrow gate, and few go in it.
Most religions, (including many Christian beliefs) believe that salvation is a merit based system.
1. You are given a bunch of rules and regulations (laws) and you must follow them. If you stumble in an area, you must make amends (penance) of some sort to make up for the error you made, or you will fail to meet the requirements of getting to heaven.
2. You are given a set of traditions (baptism, penance, church or temple membership, communion, ten commands (obaying) etc etc) and these traditions are a requirement for salvation and entrance to heaven.
3. the belief that you must be "good enough" so that God will except you. and there are people who are not "good enough" and will never make it no matter how many traditions (1 and 2) they go through. (Again what is the standard of being good enough? The LAW! and the only one who has fulfilled this standard is christ. so how can anyone consider themselves "good enough" either before or after they are saved?
These three believes are again believed by most religions of the world. and are I believe the "wide gate"
There are very few who actually believe in a true "faith based" gospel. (who are not licentious and believe we only have to say a little prayer and we are in) and believe it is their trust in the promises and work of Christ is all that can get you to heaven, it is not your righteous deeds, but the righteousness given to us by God which makes us (acceptable to him) that we will never be good enough up till the day we die to earn Gods love and if it were not for grace, we would be "deservedly" condemned forever. That even if we do fall (sin) there is nothign we could do to make up for that sin and made "right again" with God.
I believe this is the narrow gate. and few there are who enter in it.
Paul also calls those who believe we must "perfect our faith" with works "fools" (I am not calling anyone a fool, just stating Paul said this, and am not directing this at anyone, so please do not take me wrong)
He states if it is grace it is not of works, lest grace is no longer grace.
Our salvation is not just given by grace, it is kept by grace. we did not earn it before we received it (we were Gods enemy before) and we certainly will not be worthy of it after we have had it. For as John says, if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves. which is why I asked why someone could think they could ever be good enough to earn salvation. either before they received it, or even after they have had it for many years. Even Paul, at the end of his life. Did not think he earned it. He thanked God for the grace that was given to him.
Entering the gate:
A gate is an entrance.
God says it is the narrow gate, and few go in it.
Most religions, (including many Christian beliefs) believe that salvation is a merit based system.
1. You are given a bunch of rules and regulations (laws) and you must follow them. If you stumble in an area, you must make amends (penance) of some sort to make up for the error you made, or you will fail to meet the requirements of getting to heaven.
2. You are given a set of traditions (baptism, penance, church or temple membership, communion, ten commands (obaying) etc etc) and these traditions are a requirement for salvation and entrance to heaven.
3. the belief that you must be "good enough" so that God will except you. and there are people who are not "good enough" and will never make it no matter how many traditions (1 and 2) they go through. (Again what is the standard of being good enough? The LAW! and the only one who has fulfilled this standard is christ. so how can anyone consider themselves "good enough" either before or after they are saved?
These three believes are again believed by most religions of the world. and are I believe the "wide gate"
There are very few who actually believe in a true "faith based" gospel. (who are not licentious and believe we only have to say a little prayer and we are in) and believe it is their trust in the promises and work of Christ is all that can get you to heaven, it is not your righteous deeds, but the righteousness given to us by God which makes us (acceptable to him) that we will never be good enough up till the day we die to earn Gods love and if it were not for grace, we would be "deservedly" condemned forever. That even if we do fall (sin) there is nothign we could do to make up for that sin and made "right again" with God.
I believe this is the narrow gate. and few there are who enter in it.
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The narrow gate is fellowship with God.
Very few there are who will find it.
Why? Because when one draws near to God, all lies are done away with, even the deepest lies in our hearts. And so, what most do is harden their hearts, (just like they did when God spoke to them in the wilderness, and He was angry with them,) and stay far away from Him.
Salvation is grace, which is close and intimate contact with God. If one finds grace through faith, and does not harden their hearts to keep away from God, then they are saved, forever.
How does John put it?
And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. And now, little children, you abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.
So, you are right and yet you are wrong. Close, so close.
Very few there are who will find it.
Why? Because when one draws near to God, all lies are done away with, even the deepest lies in our hearts. And so, what most do is harden their hearts, (just like they did when God spoke to them in the wilderness, and He was angry with them,) and stay far away from Him.
Salvation is grace, which is close and intimate contact with God. If one finds grace through faith, and does not harden their hearts to keep away from God, then they are saved, forever.
How does John put it?
And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. And now, little children, you abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.
So, you are right and yet you are wrong. Close, so close.
I see that we are somewhat on the same page here. Here is the problem that I have with once saved always saved, (besides obvious references in the N.T. which I believe refute it). I have known people who honestly believed that they were saved. You could see works in their life which showed a changed spirit, and a love for God. They then later turned against God, and died as agnostics. If this is not possible, as you say, then these people were never saved in the first place, (you say).
I believe that I am saved. But if I believe you, and look at those people that I have known, then I can never be sure that I am saved. I think that I am, in fact, I know that I am, but I can look at others, who thought they were saved, and, according to you, they were not. That is a heavy price to pay, to interpret scriptures in a way, that I don't believe they were meant to be interpreted. Does God also deceive people into thinking that they are saved, when they are not? I believe that we can know, and be certain that we are saved.
I believe that I am saved. But if I believe you, and look at those people that I have known, then I can never be sure that I am saved. I think that I am, in fact, I know that I am, but I can look at others, who thought they were saved, and, according to you, they were not. That is a heavy price to pay, to interpret scriptures in a way, that I don't believe they were meant to be interpreted. Does God also deceive people into thinking that they are saved, when they are not? I believe that we can know, and be certain that we are saved.
A person can only be saved ONCE because there is only ONE God, who sent His ONLY begotten Son to die on ONE cross. There is only ONE death, ONE burial and ONE resurrection that put away sin forever. There is only ONE salvation through ONE Christ who is ONE Lord, who gives us ONE Spirit and ONE baptism and ONE hope of our calling. There is only ONE blood that was shed for the remission of sins and only ONE faith that can believe. There is ONE church and ONE body of Christ and ONE bride that will be married to the ONLY Lamb of God. We only have to believe ONE time to be forgiven and cleansed from sin and to be saved forever because of the ONCE and for ALL sacrifice of Christ.
If your eye be SINGLE, thy whole body will be full of light (Mt 6:22b).
If your eye be SINGLE, thy whole body will be full of light (Mt 6:22b).
Correct. But this does not mean that a person cannot be saved, and then turn away from God. Many people become saved, and then backslide into a way of life that is inconsistent with their covenant as sons and daughters of Christ. These people are not lost, but they are in danger of being lost. These are the people that Paul expressed concern for, so often in his epistles. These are the people he had in mind when he talked about finishing the race, and holding out until the end.
When a person gives into sin, their hearts are hardened, and their consciences are dulled. For some people, if they make no effort to resist temptation, their hearts are hardened and consciences are dulled, (seared as with a hot iron), to the point that they can no longer hear the voice of Holy Spirit calling them, nor endure the Word of God. Beyond this point, they are lost forever. This is what the author of Hebrews is talking about in Heb. 6: 1-8. Why is he warning us about falling away, if it is not possible? See also Heb. 3: 14-19.
This should be a warning to all of us. When we willfully sin, we are in danger of falling away. It is only by the grace of God, and His love, that we are able to accept His great mercy. We should pray every day, that He will help us to overcome temptation, and that our hearts will not become hardened to His word, and our consciences dulled to the calling of His Spirit, who lives in us.
When a person gives into sin, their hearts are hardened, and their consciences are dulled. For some people, if they make no effort to resist temptation, their hearts are hardened and consciences are dulled, (seared as with a hot iron), to the point that they can no longer hear the voice of Holy Spirit calling them, nor endure the Word of God. Beyond this point, they are lost forever. This is what the author of Hebrews is talking about in Heb. 6: 1-8. Why is he warning us about falling away, if it is not possible? See also Heb. 3: 14-19.
This should be a warning to all of us. When we willfully sin, we are in danger of falling away. It is only by the grace of God, and His love, that we are able to accept His great mercy. We should pray every day, that He will help us to overcome temptation, and that our hearts will not become hardened to His word, and our consciences dulled to the calling of His Spirit, who lives in us.