Mystery Babylon
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And how can you see that???? The whole chapter of Mat 23 Jesus is speaking about and to the Scribes and Pharisees. The Roman Catholic church isn't mentioned or even hinted at. Last time I checked, the Scribes and Pharisees were Jewish and NOT Roman Catholic. It would be one thing if the punishment Jesus later mentions in the chapter doesn't happen to them BUT IT DOES!!! You see, this is the problem people keep having who don't understand. They have no concept of audience integrity. They want to take direct conversations applicable to the audience being spoken to and transfer those conversations to us and our future when Christ was speaking about their future!!!
"Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city..."
Since when does YOU mean people 2,000+ years into the future??
Q: Who is to be killed???
A: The disciples and followers of Jesus
Q: Who is doing the killing???
A: The Scribes and Pharisees
It was these same disciples Jesus says will be tormented and killed in Mat 24. The subject matter hasn't changed or transferred to us.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
Did the disciples suffer tribulation and were most of them killed or weren't they??? It's like all literary rules of English have been abandoned by you futurists. You've lost all ability to identify the object of a sentence. Get back to basic reading comprehension.
"Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city..."
Since when does YOU mean people 2,000+ years into the future??
Q: Who is to be killed???
A: The disciples and followers of Jesus
Q: Who is doing the killing???
A: The Scribes and Pharisees
It was these same disciples Jesus says will be tormented and killed in Mat 24. The subject matter hasn't changed or transferred to us.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
Did the disciples suffer tribulation and were most of them killed or weren't they??? It's like all literary rules of English have been abandoned by you futurists. You've lost all ability to identify the object of a sentence. Get back to basic reading comprehension.
I agree with you on that!! It is not Salt Lake City. The new Jerusalem is not an earthly city. John is using Paul's imagery of the heavenly Jerusalem from Galatians 4:
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
There is and was an earthly Jerusalem which was destroyed twice and there is a heavenly Jerusalem for which all Christians, dead and alive are citizens.
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple
Notice there is no temple in the heavenly Jerusalem. Thus Christ would never reign in an earthly temple as so many on here think.
24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into ]it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Can literal nations of the earth (including those of today) go in and out of a literal new Jerusalem where nothing that defiles or causes an abomination? Of course not because we see only those written in the Book of Life may enter. The gates are open to all who believe, nobody who is righteous and redeemed will be kept out. We are not of this earth. Our citizenship is in heaven. Jesus goes to great length teaching this principle in the Book of John. Rev 21-22 describes our situation today after "the restoration of all things" which took place in 70 AD at the passing of the Law and Mosaic Age. When a believer dies today, he/she immediately goes to the spiritual side of heavenly Jerusalem. No more waiting in Hades.
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
This is the same language used in Zech 14 when the Maccabees restored the city and cleansed the temple with God's help. As for the non-believer?
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
There is and was an earthly Jerusalem which was destroyed twice and there is a heavenly Jerusalem for which all Christians, dead and alive are citizens.
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple
Notice there is no temple in the heavenly Jerusalem. Thus Christ would never reign in an earthly temple as so many on here think.
24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into ]it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Can literal nations of the earth (including those of today) go in and out of a literal new Jerusalem where nothing that defiles or causes an abomination? Of course not because we see only those written in the Book of Life may enter. The gates are open to all who believe, nobody who is righteous and redeemed will be kept out. We are not of this earth. Our citizenship is in heaven. Jesus goes to great length teaching this principle in the Book of John. Rev 21-22 describes our situation today after "the restoration of all things" which took place in 70 AD at the passing of the Law and Mosaic Age. When a believer dies today, he/she immediately goes to the spiritual side of heavenly Jerusalem. No more waiting in Hades.
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
This is the same language used in Zech 14 when the Maccabees restored the city and cleansed the temple with God's help. As for the non-believer?
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
John was in the spirit, meaning he was in the spiritual realm. He is watching God make heavenly Jerusalem available to all who believe. Prior to the resurrection, everyone had to wait in Hades, either in Paradise or the bad side of the Gulf until Jesus returned to redeem those in Paradise.
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” (Luke 21).
A literal city does not come from heaven (spiritual realm) to our earth (physical realm) where all can see. John was using imagery. Look at the size of this thing. It would be a cube measuring 1,500 miles on each side. It would stick out way past our atmosphere and knock out our lower flying satellites. It would rip a hole in our atmosphere 1,500 miles across and the heat of the rotational friction would melt the gold destroying the walls. Every living creature on earth would be killed due to lack of oxygen with no atmosphere left to protect it.
John was in the spirit, meaning he was in the spiritual realm. He is watching God make heavenly Jerusalem available to all who believe. Prior to the resurrection, everyone had to wait in Hades, either in Paradise or the bad side of the Gulf until Jesus returned to redeem those in Paradise.
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” (Luke 21).
A literal city does not come from heaven (spiritual realm) to our earth (physical realm) where all can see. John was using imagery. Look at the size of this thing. It would be a cube measuring 1,500 miles on each side. It would stick out way past our atmosphere and knock out our lower flying satellites. It would rip a hole in our atmosphere 1,500 miles across and the heat of the rotational friction would melt the gold destroying the walls. Every living creature on earth would be killed due to lack of oxygen with no atmosphere left to protect it.
I am NOT a futurist.
You sound to be a preterist.
I don't see why you are connecting Matthew 23 to Rev 17 (and perhaps Rev 18). How do you connect these?
Much of the material in Matthew 23 pertains to all generations. It pertains to the generation of the time of Jesus. It is relevant to generations which followed...it is relevant to today's generations, and tomorrow's.
We are but scribes and pharisees, are we not?
Rev 17 pertains to a period of time to the future of when John wrote it.
Who is she?
When is she?
where is she?
how long of a time span does she last?
some might say 3.5 yrs, others might say 7 yrs... I say she lasts a lot longer, but how long I can't say.
How long does she last you say?
You sound to be a preterist.
I don't see why you are connecting Matthew 23 to Rev 17 (and perhaps Rev 18). How do you connect these?
Much of the material in Matthew 23 pertains to all generations. It pertains to the generation of the time of Jesus. It is relevant to generations which followed...it is relevant to today's generations, and tomorrow's.
We are but scribes and pharisees, are we not?
Rev 17 pertains to a period of time to the future of when John wrote it.
Who is she?
When is she?
where is she?
how long of a time span does she last?
some might say 3.5 yrs, others might say 7 yrs... I say she lasts a lot longer, but how long I can't say.
How long does she last you say?
Because the subject matter is the same. Mat 23 was all about the "woes" to the Scribes and Pharisees. In fact, Jesus uses the phrase, "woe to you' EIGHT times in the passage. Seven times He says, "“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" Jesus has zeroed in on them and nobody else is in focus.
Actually almost none of it pertains to us other than as use as an object lesson.
Certainly not!! At least I don't consider myself one of them. I would never support putting my Lord and Savior on a cross, but speak for yourself if you feel that way. Count me out.
Correct and John wrote it during the reign of Nero. So yes, it was future to him but as we see at the start of Revelation 1, it was in his very near future. In Rev 22, Christ concludes that same theme. Rev 22: 20 "He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
And man oh man did He ever come. Wiped that wicked city off the face of the earth.
The Harlot? "She was the scribes and pharisees, of course. They were the ones riding the beast, "ROME." The Beast supported the Harlot did it not? The wicked scribes and pharisees could not have stayed in power, tormenting and killing Christ and His followers without the support of Rome. They declared Caesar their King and paid tribute to him in exchange they were allowed to keep power and rule over Israel.
When? A long time. From at least Herod up and until 70 AD when every last Jewish priest in Jerusalem was killed by Titus.
Where? All over the Roman Empire in the Jewish synagogues but obviously their head quarters was in Jerusalem.
Don't confuse the Harlot with the Tribulation. The Tribulation lasted 3.5 years from when Rome first surrounded the city until the end. The "great tribulation" meaning the worst part lasted but 5 months when Titus arrived and choked her out. This was the fifth trumpet.
Actually almost none of it pertains to us other than as use as an object lesson.
Certainly not!! At least I don't consider myself one of them. I would never support putting my Lord and Savior on a cross, but speak for yourself if you feel that way. Count me out.
Correct and John wrote it during the reign of Nero. So yes, it was future to him but as we see at the start of Revelation 1, it was in his very near future. In Rev 22, Christ concludes that same theme. Rev 22: 20 "He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
And man oh man did He ever come. Wiped that wicked city off the face of the earth.
The Harlot? "She was the scribes and pharisees, of course. They were the ones riding the beast, "ROME." The Beast supported the Harlot did it not? The wicked scribes and pharisees could not have stayed in power, tormenting and killing Christ and His followers without the support of Rome. They declared Caesar their King and paid tribute to him in exchange they were allowed to keep power and rule over Israel.
When? A long time. From at least Herod up and until 70 AD when every last Jewish priest in Jerusalem was killed by Titus.
Where? All over the Roman Empire in the Jewish synagogues but obviously their head quarters was in Jerusalem.
Don't confuse the Harlot with the Tribulation. The Tribulation lasted 3.5 years from when Rome first surrounded the city until the end. The "great tribulation" meaning the worst part lasted but 5 months when Titus arrived and choked her out. This was the fifth trumpet.
It must be nice to not be guilty of hypocrisy.
Revelation 17:1 Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: .
How does this fit the Nation of Israel/Jerusalem? Was she influential throughout the known world?
Revelation 18:17-19
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
How does this fit the Nation of Israel/Jerusalem? Was she this rich?
Revelation 17:1 Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: .
How does this fit the Nation of Israel/Jerusalem? Was she influential throughout the known world?
Revelation 18:17-19
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
How does this fit the Nation of Israel/Jerusalem? Was she this rich?
The answer is, the woman in chapter 17 is not referring to Jerusalem/Israel. The angel says that "the woman you saw is that great city who rules over the kings of the earth." When did Jerusalem/Israel ever rule over the kings of the earth? The answer would be, never! Jerusalem/Israel was not ruling over the kings of the earth when John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was.
This woman which is a city, also sits on seven hills/mountains. Jerusalem was not built on seven hills. But Rome was built on and is famous for her seven hills.
The women in chapter 12 & 17 are representing two different women.
This woman which is a city, also sits on seven hills/mountains. Jerusalem was not built on seven hills. But Rome was built on and is famous for her seven hills.
The women in chapter 12 & 17 are representing two different women.
Mystery Babylon are the kingdoms of this world. Believers mixed with unbelievers under the authority of the god of this world .
It is not about the political kingdoms of this world as if we did walk by sight (flesh and blood) . Rome would be one that can be seen as a antichrist but there are many antichrists that do not walk by faith but rather follow another path, another gospel which is no real gospel. looking to what the eyes see as if it was the eternal.
In order to discover the mysteries. The proper foundation of faith is needed . We look at the things seen as the temporal, the eternal is not seen .
Its not about the temporal corrupted land but the eternal, incorruptible New Jerusalem not seen. The city prepared as the wife of Christ the church. The Christian city.
The word Christian with no other meaning literally mean residents of the city of Christ. The proper name our God has named His bride.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Then no more a mystery .
It is not about the political kingdoms of this world as if we did walk by sight (flesh and blood) . Rome would be one that can be seen as a antichrist but there are many antichrists that do not walk by faith but rather follow another path, another gospel which is no real gospel. looking to what the eyes see as if it was the eternal.
In order to discover the mysteries. The proper foundation of faith is needed . We look at the things seen as the temporal, the eternal is not seen .
Its not about the temporal corrupted land but the eternal, incorruptible New Jerusalem not seen. The city prepared as the wife of Christ the church. The Christian city.
The word Christian with no other meaning literally mean residents of the city of Christ. The proper name our God has named His bride.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Then no more a mystery .
Hills like mountains represent the kingdoms of this world. Seven would represent all the kingdoms under the authority of the god of this world.
The woman you saw is that great city the strange woman as the god of this world who rules over the kings of the earth." The woman in chapter 12 is the bride of Christ the church. She as the kingdom of God sets on a high mountain signified by seven.
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; Revelation 21:9-11
The woman you saw is that great city the strange woman as the god of this world who rules over the kings of the earth." The woman in chapter 12 is the bride of Christ the church. She as the kingdom of God sets on a high mountain signified by seven.
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; Revelation 21:9-11
She certainly was. Jerusalem rivaled Rome as the greatest city in all the known world at the time. "Waters" is an expression for multitudes of various people. (“The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues"). This definition is given. Jerusalem was incredibly diverse. During the Jewish festivals, Jews from the Babylonian diaspora returned to Jerusalem in huge numbers swelling the population 5X. They spoke many languages and were from all over the known world, see Acts 2:5-11.
Jerusalem was declared by Titus to perhaps be richer than Rome as he gazed upon the temple ornaments. Look at this from Josephus: "And now all the soldiers had such vast quantities of the spoils which they had gotten by plunder, that in Syria a pound weight of gold was sold for half its former value." (War 6-6-1). Titus declared as he confronted the priests, "till at length you became richer than we ourselves, even when you were our enemies." (War 6-6-2).
Thus you have the richest and perhaps greatest city of the 1st century being destroyed by flame and left desolate with not one person remaining. The city sits on 7 hills high above the Mediterranean where ships sitting far off could see her flames. Now read this from Josephus "War 6-8-3" and compare to Rev 17-18.
3. But now at this time it was that one of the priests, the son of Thebuthus, whose name was Jesus, upon his having security given him, by the oath of Caesar, that he should be preserved, upon condition that he should deliver to him certain of the precious things that had been reposited in the temple came out of it, and delivered him from the wall of the holy house two candlesticks, like to those that lay in the holy house, with tables, and cisterns, and vials, all made of solid gold, and very heavy. He also delivered to him the veils and the garments, with the precious stones, and a great number of other precious vessels that belonged to their sacred worship. The treasurer of the temple also, whose name was Phineas, was seized on, and showed Titus the coats and girdles of the priests, with a great quantity of purple and scarlet, which were there reposited for the uses of the veil, as also a great deal of cinnamon and cassia, with a large quantity of other sweet spices, which used to be mixed together, and offered as incense to God every day. A great many other treasures were also delivered to him, with sacred ornaments of the temple not a few; which things thus delivered to Titus obtained of him for this man the same pardon that he had allowed to such as deserted of their own accord.
Rev 17-18 excepts matching the above"
4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls... and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”...merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; 13 and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots.
People aren't getting rich trading these things in our world today. Not a lot of people buying chariots. These were the luxurious goods of the first century. Now check this out from War 6-5-3:
"A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!"
Compare to Rev 18:
and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore.
Read Josephus. Study history. He brings Revelation to life. Virtually everything in Revelation can be found in Josephus' "War of the Jews." When you have everything fulfilled in the first century to that very same generation Jesus spoke to, why do you look to the future?
Jerusalem was declared by Titus to perhaps be richer than Rome as he gazed upon the temple ornaments. Look at this from Josephus: "And now all the soldiers had such vast quantities of the spoils which they had gotten by plunder, that in Syria a pound weight of gold was sold for half its former value." (War 6-6-1). Titus declared as he confronted the priests, "till at length you became richer than we ourselves, even when you were our enemies." (War 6-6-2).
Thus you have the richest and perhaps greatest city of the 1st century being destroyed by flame and left desolate with not one person remaining. The city sits on 7 hills high above the Mediterranean where ships sitting far off could see her flames. Now read this from Josephus "War 6-8-3" and compare to Rev 17-18.
3. But now at this time it was that one of the priests, the son of Thebuthus, whose name was Jesus, upon his having security given him, by the oath of Caesar, that he should be preserved, upon condition that he should deliver to him certain of the precious things that had been reposited in the temple came out of it, and delivered him from the wall of the holy house two candlesticks, like to those that lay in the holy house, with tables, and cisterns, and vials, all made of solid gold, and very heavy. He also delivered to him the veils and the garments, with the precious stones, and a great number of other precious vessels that belonged to their sacred worship. The treasurer of the temple also, whose name was Phineas, was seized on, and showed Titus the coats and girdles of the priests, with a great quantity of purple and scarlet, which were there reposited for the uses of the veil, as also a great deal of cinnamon and cassia, with a large quantity of other sweet spices, which used to be mixed together, and offered as incense to God every day. A great many other treasures were also delivered to him, with sacred ornaments of the temple not a few; which things thus delivered to Titus obtained of him for this man the same pardon that he had allowed to such as deserted of their own accord.
Rev 17-18 excepts matching the above"
4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls... and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”...merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; 13 and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots.
People aren't getting rich trading these things in our world today. Not a lot of people buying chariots. These were the luxurious goods of the first century. Now check this out from War 6-5-3:
"A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!"
Compare to Rev 18:
and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore.
Read Josephus. Study history. He brings Revelation to life. Virtually everything in Revelation can be found in Josephus' "War of the Jews." When you have everything fulfilled in the first century to that very same generation Jesus spoke to, why do you look to the future?
God who is not served by human hands in any way shape or form is not a respecter of persons .Making all from the same lump of clay satisfying the need of His soul .He is of one mind needing nothing from the creature he forms Christ in.
It is not about the political nations as kingdoms of the world as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood and the kingdom of God did come by observation .It about God's love for a fallen whole world.
All Israel is not born again Israel. It was never about the flesh of any nation. Clean or redeemed as a inward Jew born again. And unclean as a outward Jew according to what the eyes see. .Jewish flesh the temporal is used to represent the whole of mankind .Just as the animals used in ceremonial laws some for clean or redeemed other unconverted mankind... we walk by faith the eternal not seen
The time of reformation did not end in 70 Ad .It ended when Christ said it is finished . The veil was rent that which stood in the holy place as a abomination of desolation. . removing its ability to deceive the nations that somehow God lived in houses made with human hands...
It is not about the political nations as kingdoms of the world as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood and the kingdom of God did come by observation .It about God's love for a fallen whole world.
All Israel is not born again Israel. It was never about the flesh of any nation. Clean or redeemed as a inward Jew born again. And unclean as a outward Jew according to what the eyes see. .Jewish flesh the temporal is used to represent the whole of mankind .Just as the animals used in ceremonial laws some for clean or redeemed other unconverted mankind... we walk by faith the eternal not seen
The time of reformation did not end in 70 Ad .It ended when Christ said it is finished . The veil was rent that which stood in the holy place as a abomination of desolation. . removing its ability to deceive the nations that somehow God lived in houses made with human hands...
interesting points but also in revelation it does say 'every eye will see him' Jesus does not come back INVISIBLY. I dont think the heavenly city is a cube more of a pyramid and it would have life in it not death because the tree of life will be there again, so obviously there WILL be oxygen and water.
when John SAW this with his spiritual eyes he was realating to what he SAW not what he IMAGINED or God would have said this is just a symbol, I am TELLING you about, and John would have HEARD it but not SEEN it. in thr last two chapters of revelation John constantly refers to things he HEARD and SAW.
when John SAW this with his spiritual eyes he was realating to what he SAW not what he IMAGINED or God would have said this is just a symbol, I am TELLING you about, and John would have HEARD it but not SEEN it. in thr last two chapters of revelation John constantly refers to things he HEARD and SAW.
not sure how big twelve thousand FURLONGS are but its not the same as miles or kilometrees, and cubits are also a different measure, because Revelation says its the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
of course the angels have to fit in heaven so it is conceivably bigger than our present day atmosphere. if the Glory of God is lighting it, then there is no need even for the sun or moon.
and the best thing? 'they shall see his face'
of course the angels have to fit in heaven so it is conceivably bigger than our present day atmosphere. if the Glory of God is lighting it, then there is no need even for the sun or moon.
and the best thing? 'they shall see his face'
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Good day Lanolin,
Just fyi, the new Jerusalem will be in the shape of a cube:
"The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long.
According to scripture, it will be approximately 1,400 miles wide, high and deep, with approximately 200 ft. thick walls.
Just fyi, the new Jerusalem will be in the shape of a cube:
"The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long.
According to scripture, it will be approximately 1,400 miles wide, high and deep, with approximately 200 ft. thick walls.
Every eye is every human that realizes they fall short of the glory of God. . who is not an man as us. He is God like no other god . Three things make up eternal God. .God is Spirit. God is light. God is love, .
The one time outward demonstration of the unseen work of the father and Son working together as one is over,
Some did know him by what the eyes see, not saved by what the eyes see the temporal. But there is not one reason why us who walk by faith would look for a repeat demonstration of flesh that Christ already said profits for nothing as a spirit work .
2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, "yet now henceforth" know we him no more.
my bible says furlongs and cubits. so probably not the same as your version. not sure how long a 'stadia' is. but cubits is not the same as feet. according to my Bible dictionary a cubit is 18 inches or the span of an arms length.
it is hard for me visualise what thus looks like but the more space conscious engineers amongst us could proably tell us. if it has 3 gates on each side, I imagine its not going to look like a rubiks cube though.
it is hard for me visualise what thus looks like but the more space conscious engineers amongst us could proably tell us. if it has 3 gates on each side, I imagine its not going to look like a rubiks cube though.