Once saved always saved ?

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francina

Guest
amen Dave, I don't think they are actually reading anything that is posted if it does not line up to what they are saying, so what is the point of answering. Only for the young man who asked the question.
 

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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amen Dave, I don't think they are actually reading anything that is posted if it does not line up to what they are saying, so what is the point of answering. Only for the young man who asked the question.
Actually, I have read what you posted. I susspose that the same thing could be said of everyone who disagreed with me.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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Joseph Prince??? Martin Luther, John Calvin
You believe what you want, not the bible, which says Christ died to destroy sin & anyone who sins is of the devil. No one who is born of God continues in sin..
What do you class as sin?

Do you always every minute of every day uphold everyone of Christ's commands in the beatitudes?
 

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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We should realize that sin is not only transgression of the Law. Sin is also unrighteousness, or as John wrote, all unrighteousness is sin. There is unrighteousness that does not transgres the Law. In fact, the Law does an incomplete job of defining sin. And according to Paul, the Law actually intakes us to sin in the first place, and then proceeds to make our sin increase so that it becomes exceedingly sinful. Both apostles conclude that righteousness is not of the Law, that the Law was not given for the sake of righteousness, nor even to instruct us in righteousness.

So how does one become righteous? Is it even possible, other than imputed righteousness?

Yes!!! We are righteous by our birth in and of and by the Holy Spirit. We are the children of God now! But, it has not yet appeared what we shall become. Do we understand this? We are now, this minute, born of God and seen by Him as His children. But we have not finished the transformation. There is much left to be done to complete us in the image of Jesus Christ, who is our pattern. One of the last changes we will undergo is the redemption of our flesh, when this corruption will be put off in order for us to put on glory.

As born children of God, we do not sin. Huh? Well, we mist still consider that we are not completed works yet, that we are still being changed into His image. A part of us is perfect, our spirits. But our souls need a lot of work. This is why all of the exhortations in scripture to strive for holiness. But we know that holiness is not something gained by the Law, because holiness is perfect, and the one who is holy will not practice unrighteousness.

God, in His wisdom and in His provision, has given is the Holy Spirit to live in us, not just as the seal of our being born into His family, but as the power of God for our holiness. In the Spirit, we have the very mind of Christ, and we can know all things. But even as the Spirit is true, and teaches us all things, He teaches us to love in Christ Jesus. And the reason we are to love in Him is so that wemay have confidence in the day of His appearing, and not shrink away from Him in shame.

This is so important. If we abide in the Law, we might not transgress, but we will not have righteousness, because if righteousness could be gained by the Law, then Jesus died in vain. But if we love in Jesus, (which means that we are centered on Him, walking before Him, following His leading and listening for His voice,) then we are righteous already. And we will, in Jesus, find ourselves drawn to God with cords of the love God showed the world in sending Jesus. And Jesus will constantly intercede for us as we draw nearer to God. And in God's presence, we are transformed by His glory in our souls into His image.

Read the bible with these thoughts in mind and see if it does not speak so.

In Christ,
 

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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Please forgive the typing errors above. 3 times the word love should have been live. I pray that this does not cause confussion.

I have fat thumbs. LOL
 
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francina

Guest
that was a scripture Mr.Grace, not my own words so you are questioning the bible not me. Here is another one
1 Corinthians 10:13
For no temptation (no trial regarded as enticing to sin), [no matter how it comes or where it leads] has overtaken you and laid hold on you that is not common to man [that is, no temptation or trial has come to you that is beyond human resistance and that is not adjusted and adapted and belonging to human experience, and such as man can bear]. But God is faithful [to His Word and to His compassionate nature], and He [can be trusted] not to let you be tempted and tried and assayed beyond your ability and strength of resistance and power to endure, but with the temptation He will [always] also provide the way out (the means of escape to a landing place), that you may be capable and strong and powerful to bear up under it patiently.
 
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Consumed

Guest
when discussions take on the form of sarcasm however slight, grace, mercy love all become void and it becomes all flesh not spirt.
 

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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when discussions take on the form of sarcasm however slight, grace, mercy love all become void and it becomes all flesh not spirt.
It is difficult at best to see grace. The Law and grace are mutually exclusive. That makes it even harder to see. This is why a sinner inthe depths of remorse can see grace, Jesus came into this world to save sinners, among whom I am one of the biggest.

In Christ,
 
Dec 19, 2009
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that was a scripture Mr.Grace, not my own words so you are questioning the bible not me. Here is another one
1 Corinthians 10:13
For no temptation (no trial regarded as enticing to sin), [no matter how it comes or where it leads] has overtaken you and laid hold on you that is not common to man [that is, no temptation or trial has come to you that is beyond human resistance and that is not adjusted and adapted and belonging to human experience, and such as man can bear]. But God is faithful [to His Word and to His compassionate nature], and He [can be trusted] not to let you be tempted and tried and assayed beyond your ability and strength of resistance and power to endure, but with the temptation He will [always] also provide the way out (the means of escape to a landing place), that you may be capable and strong and powerful to bear up under it patiently.
So are you perfect and sinless in the flesh?

As we are speaking of very high standards indeed, may I ask

Do you love your enemies as much as you love your friends, from the heart?

Do you bless those who curse you and pray for those who ill treat you with heartfelt love for them?

If someone struck you on one cheek would you turn the other with nothing but love in your heart for the person who struck you?

If someone took your coat, would you offer them more of your clothing without a hint of resentment in you?

Would you give to ANYONE who asked

If someone took something that belonged to you would you demand it back? Or in your heart wish them to keep it?

Would you lend to an enemy(someone who was unkind to you )without expecting anything back?

Do you ever(honestly) look at the speck in a persons eye?

Have you ever fasted and told anyone you have fasted or wanted in your heart for people to know you have fasted? If you have according to Christ you are a hypocrite

Have you ever called your brother or sister a fool?

Have you ever been angry with your brother or sister?

When you invite people to your home for a meal do you invite your friends and family members who will repay you? Or do you not invite them but rather the lame, blind and beggars from the street.

If someone mistreated you or falsley accused you because you are a Christian would you in your heart rejpoice? Would you leapo up and down with pure joy?

And would you answer all of the above honestly?
 
Dec 19, 2009
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Whatever we demand of others God will surely demand of us

They tie up heavy loads and put them on mens shoulders; but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them
Mtt 23:4

But you have neglected the more important matters of the law; justice, mercy and faithfulness(and of course love)

And you experts in the law, woe to you, you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them
Luke 11:46

Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering
Luke 12:52
 

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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The most important point about grace is that it is realized by sinners. The righteous religious will not receive grace. Consider the case of the rich young man, who came and asked Jesus what he must do to gain eternal life. Jesus asked him if he kept the Law of commandments. The man answered saying that he had kept them all from his youth. Jesus then told him to go and sell all that he owned and give the money to the poor, and then come and follow Him. Grace, God in the flesh, was standing right in front of him, but he turned and left saddened, because he owned great riches.

The truth is that none of us is righteous, not even one. There is none who do good, who seek righteousness and mercy and goodness. This is scripture. Jesus came into this world to save sinners. This too, is scripture. No one is without sin, and if they say that they are, the truth is not in them; they are liars. This also is scripture.

It is sad to see grace despised in this way.

In Christ.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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Whatever we demand of others God will surely demand of us

They tie up heavy loads and put them on mens shoulders; but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them
Mtt 23:4

But you have neglected the more important matters of the law; justice, mercy and faithfulness(and of course love)

And you experts in the law, woe to you, you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them
Luke 11:46

Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering
Luke 12:52

And of course, the worst one of all; woe to you experts in the Law, who search the whole world for one disciple, and when you find him, you turn him into twice the son of hell that you are.

Blessings brother, in Christ
 
Dec 19, 2009
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And of course, the worst one of all; woe to you experts in the Law, who search the whole world for one disciple, and when you find him, you turn him into twice the son of hell that you are.

Blessings brother, in Christ
I missed that one, thank you for adding it

It is strange, but the people who most demand the law is perfectly obeyed and looked to are I have found the people who most lack love, mercy, justice, faithfulness, the higher points of the law

I believe we should speak of the love and mercy of God for sinners such as we.
And emphasising a life of faith in Christ and a dependance on the Holy Spirit to change us, not how well we can strive to live a perfect life, for then we cannot from the heart give God all the glory, and he demands it
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't believe that the writer of Hebrews was saying that at all.'if one has received the gift, has tasted of the gift, and then falls away, it is impossible to return them. This passage shows the absolute wonder and pricelessness of grace. Our salvation is of great cost; there was no other way but the death of the Son that we could be reconciled. To trample this under our feet I don't think would be forgiven, and seems to me to be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
I agree, it is priceless (on our part) but It Cost Christ everything. And to trample him by returning to a legal system puts him to shame.

I think we should take the author as he wrote it. and not try to ready anything else into it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Joseph Prince??? Martin Luther, John Calvin
You believe what you want, not the bible, which says Christ died to destroy sin & anyone who sins is of the devil. No one who is born of God continues in sin. Not one of the posts on grace on this page uses scripture. Nor does that post on fathers not getting rid of their kids is bringing God down to our level. Adam was a son of God & all of humanity was called the sons of God , until they gave in to Satan. Sin is allegiance to Satan. The bible tells what not to do & it none of it is to hard for us. None of you are acknowledging the power of God to cleanse us & keep us from all sin.
John says, if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and truth is not in us.

Who cares what calvin or any of the others say, they died along time ago.

I care what God says, And I fear that you think you could ever be good enough to merit salvation of your own good deeds.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
im now under the impression that when we do get saved, it's an ongoing process and not something once you do youre set for life, because if that were so, i could now truly deny God all i want, turn from everything ive been, and turn back to sin & wickedness, and yet still be saved...

from what i believe, OSAS contradicts not only 2 Timothy 2:12 but Revelation 2:8-11
Then scripture states plain and clear you were never saved, For if you were saved, you would never have departed

Once again, Try learning what Grace is, and stop believing we are licentious. who are the people you are speaking to.

Paul said I HAVE been justified. I HAVE eternal life. I never read where any one says we MIGHT be justified or Might Have eternal life. which is what Non OSAS people believe. The cross of Christ is removed.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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I agree, it is priceless (on our part) but It Cost Christ everything. And to trample him by returning to a legal system puts him to shame.

I think we should take the author as he wrote it. and not try to ready anything else into it.
Just a thought.

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of THE TRUTH, no sacrifice for sin is left

Heb 10:26

The important thing there is after we have received the knowledge of THE TRUTH. Many do not live in the truth of grace but rather the legal system you mention, therefore they will in effect keep sinning(or deliberately sin). If no-one has told them the truth I don't think that they can be continually sinning after learning the truth, so the above verse could not apply to them
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
that was a scripture Mr.Grace, not my own words so you are questioning the bible not me. Here is another one
1 Corinthians 10:13
For no temptation (no trial regarded as enticing to sin), [no matter how it comes or where it leads] has overtaken you and laid hold on you that is not common to man [that is, no temptation or trial has come to you that is beyond human resistance and that is not adjusted and adapted and belonging to human experience, and such as man can bear]. But God is faithful [to His Word and to His compassionate nature], and He [can be trusted] not to let you be tempted and tried and assayed beyond your ability and strength of resistance and power to endure, but with the temptation He will [always] also provide the way out (the means of escape to a landing place), that you may be capable and strong and powerful to bear up under it patiently.
So I take it you are sinless? I do pray you are. because by your own doctrine, if your not your doomed, and have no hope. Then again scripture makes it clear you are not sinless. and if you say you are.. well we know what scripture says. .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I missed that one, thank you for adding it

It is strange, but the people who most demand the law is perfectly obeyed and looked to are I have found the people who most lack love, mercy, justice, faithfulness, the higher points of the law

I believe we should speak of the love and mercy of God for sinners such as we.
And emphasising a life of faith in Christ and a dependance on the Holy Spirit to change us, not how well we can strive to live a perfect life, for then we cannot from the heart give God all the glory, and he demands it
Yeah but they don't lie, cheat steel, murder commit sexual immorality, etc etc so they must be good upstanding people, who are ok in the eyes of God, thus do not need a redeemer.

Poor us sinners.. wow are us :(
 
Dec 19, 2009
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So I take it you are sinless? I do pray you are. because by your own doctrine, if your not your doomed, and have no hope. Then again scripture makes it clear you are not sinless. and if you say you are.. well we know what scripture says. .

For by one sacrifice he made forever perfect, those who are being made Holy
Heb 10:14

We are perfect in the spiritual sense before God, declared not guilty for Christ paid the penalty of our sin. But in the flesh we are not perfect, otherwise that verse would not read THOSE WHO ARE BEING MADE HOLY
If we were perfect in the flesh we would not be, 'being made Holy'