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He has already shown me, but you would not believe. You do not even believe in hearing His voice, so how can you say that you believe the rest of the verse?
When Jesus prayed to His Father, (odd word that, Father, don't you think?) He asked that we be one with Him, just as He is one with the Father. Does this make us equal with God?
When Jesus prayed to His Father, (odd word that, Father, don't you think?) He asked that we be one with Him, just as He is one with the Father. Does this make us equal with God?
Your answers to some of the posts and scripturs that have been put to you amount to a man chewing gum and spitting saliva against the wall. In other words are like empty spittal and void of any substance.
The only way that any Jew, during the time of Christ, would be able to approach the Father would be through Christ. It is not possible to know the Father without Christ. To make this happen God became a man through the person of His Son and was born of a virgin. God almighty grew up as a man in the person of His Son. The Father was always in Christ from birth even to the cross where he would reconcile the world unto Himself by not imputing their trespasses unto them. The Father sent His only begotten Son, the only begotten of the Father, and made His Son the one that sinful man would have to believe and look upon for eternal life. He that hath the Son hath life and the life of the Father was in the Son. For Philip to ask that question, to show us the Father, the Son had already revealed Him and was the expressed image of His person and not some reproduction or clone.
Jesus Christ represented the Father in every way because there was no difference and for any of the disciples to look upon the Son was to look upon the Father. The Father was only greater in His glory and position upon the throne in heaven that the Son had to leave in order to become a man. As a man, though He was God, He was under the Father and submitted to the Father in all things. When the Son became a man in the flesh the Father became greater and only the Father was good and the works that the Son did was the works of the Father.
The Son in His incarnation became the revelation of the Father to man that had been separated from God through sin. The plan of redemption for man involved all members or persons of the Trinity and Godhead. In order for man's sin to be remitted and put away God had to become a man through His Son so that His blood could be shed to take away the sins of the world. The blood of animals could not accomplish this putting away of sin, so God became a man and accomplished this work through His Son on the cross. All sin was judged through death and on the third day the Son was resurrected from the grave, showed Himself to many and returned to the former glory that He had with the Father. Now they are as they were from eternity past as the Alpha and will always be through eternity future as the Omega.
If anyone wants to believe that the Father is greater than the Son, that would make their worship of the Father to be greater than their worship of the Son. This would make the glory of the Son of a lesser degree then the glory of the Father. This would make the nature, the attributes and the authority of the Son to fall short of the Father. They would not be one and equal to one another in these things that make God who He is. The Father has always been in the Son and the Son has always been in the Father and no man can separate the Father from the Son or the Son from the Father for they are the same.
The only way that any Jew, during the time of Christ, would be able to approach the Father would be through Christ. It is not possible to know the Father without Christ. To make this happen God became a man through the person of His Son and was born of a virgin. God almighty grew up as a man in the person of His Son. The Father was always in Christ from birth even to the cross where he would reconcile the world unto Himself by not imputing their trespasses unto them. The Father sent His only begotten Son, the only begotten of the Father, and made His Son the one that sinful man would have to believe and look upon for eternal life. He that hath the Son hath life and the life of the Father was in the Son. For Philip to ask that question, to show us the Father, the Son had already revealed Him and was the expressed image of His person and not some reproduction or clone.
Jesus Christ represented the Father in every way because there was no difference and for any of the disciples to look upon the Son was to look upon the Father. The Father was only greater in His glory and position upon the throne in heaven that the Son had to leave in order to become a man. As a man, though He was God, He was under the Father and submitted to the Father in all things. When the Son became a man in the flesh the Father became greater and only the Father was good and the works that the Son did was the works of the Father.
The Son in His incarnation became the revelation of the Father to man that had been separated from God through sin. The plan of redemption for man involved all members or persons of the Trinity and Godhead. In order for man's sin to be remitted and put away God had to become a man through His Son so that His blood could be shed to take away the sins of the world. The blood of animals could not accomplish this putting away of sin, so God became a man and accomplished this work through His Son on the cross. All sin was judged through death and on the third day the Son was resurrected from the grave, showed Himself to many and returned to the former glory that He had with the Father. Now they are as they were from eternity past as the Alpha and will always be through eternity future as the Omega.
If anyone wants to believe that the Father is greater than the Son, that would make their worship of the Father to be greater than their worship of the Son. This would make the glory of the Son of a lesser degree then the glory of the Father. This would make the nature, the attributes and the authority of the Son to fall short of the Father. They would not be one and equal to one another in these things that make God who He is. The Father has always been in the Son and the Son has always been in the Father and no man can separate the Father from the Son or the Son from the Father for they are the same.
Please read what I have written on Trinity verses oneness thread in post 996, I would genuinely appreciate your comments on it
Though I appreciate your reply it has not answered my question I have repeatedly put to you concerning John 17:3
I look forward to hearing your reply to the question VW has put to you in his previous post to this 223
Though I appreciate your reply it has not answered my question I have repeatedly put to you concerning John 17:3
I look forward to hearing your reply to the question VW has put to you in his previous post to this 223
You believe this because you wish to believe it. This doctrine is not supported by scripture. In almost every way that Jesus described Himself, He shows Himself in relation to the Father. And in every way, He gives the glory to the Father, and shows the fact of God the Father's higher station.
Just for grins, I will give you one example, and you can hear the Spirit, or go your own way.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing, for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing, and greater works than these will He show Him, that you may marvel. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believe Him who sent Me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment. Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear shall live. For just as the father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself, and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of May. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life, and those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of who sent Me. There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the testimony which He bears of Me is true."
Here we see the actual relationship Jesus has with the Father. The Father gave Him life to have in Himself, even as the Father has life in Himself. The Father gave all judgment into the Son's hands, so that all might honor the Son even as they honor the Father, even to the point that if they do not honor the Son, they are not honoring the Father. The Father has given all authority into the hands of the Son. And the Father testifies of the Son.
The one sent is not greater to, nor equal to, the One who sent Him. This does not make Jesus to not be God. Jesus did not consider equality with God as something to be grasped. But He was there in the beginning with God. He is God.
He is not the Father. Never was, and never will be.
And now you are thinking that I did not answer you right, because I said nothing about Jesus showing the Father to His disciples. But you do not understand as you should, because even as Jesus showed the Father, so we are to show Jesus to the world. We do this in only one way, and no other way. By the working of the Holy Spirit through us, period.
You have lived in your own domain concerning the things of God for quite awhile, so why break out of it now and confess that Jesus Christ, the living and almighty God who created all things, came in the likeness of sinful flesh and dwelt among us. Is that too bold of a declaration to say that the Son was equal to the Father and not some clone or reproduction. Anyone that does not confess with their mouth that God became a man in the flesh through His Son is a person that has taken on a spirit of antichrist. The Father is not just God and the Son just God, they are the same and they are one God. To believe in the Father you must believe upon the Son. If you believe upon the Son you have seen Him and if you have seen the Son you have seen the Father also and the fellowship that we have is with the Father and the Son who are one. Christ is the mediator between God and man and man can only get to the Father through the Son, who represents us to the Father as our advocate when we sin.
Please, don't bring that much shame on yourself.
What is the work of the Holy Spirit in your life that is revealing Jesus Christ to the world? How is God using you to reveal Christ to the lost that are in the world? Are you preaching the gospel to them one on one in the market places and all over like they did in the NT church? If you are not, then you have nothing to say but have plenty of faith to put into action.
What is the work of the Holy Spirit in your life that is revealing Jesus Christ to the world? How is God using you to reveal Christ to the lost that are in the world? Are you preaching the gospel to them one on one in the market places and all over like they did in the NT church? If you are not, then you have nothing to say but have plenty of faith to put into action.
Red
You are showing a nasty and vindictive attitude. And no amount of knowing the LITERAL words of the Bible can compensate for this
As you spend so much time on this website how can you find fault with others for not preaching the word in market places etc
You are spending the majority of your time sitting at your computer screen, but finding fault with others for doing the same and not being out ministering to the needy
I could post scripture concerning this attitude-but won't
You are showing a nasty and vindictive attitude. And no amount of knowing the LITERAL words of the Bible can compensate for this
As you spend so much time on this website how can you find fault with others for not preaching the word in market places etc
You are spending the majority of your time sitting at your computer screen, but finding fault with others for doing the same and not being out ministering to the needy
I could post scripture concerning this attitude-but won't
I wonder if you even hear what you are saying?
If one denies that Jesus is the Christ, that one is of antichrist's spirit. I guess that you have to rewrite scripture to make it fit your doctrine.
And then, you show His service to the Father by saying that He mediates between us and the Father.
Belief is not seeing. You say that if one believes on the Son, that they have seen Him. Have you seen Him? Then, you are just as He is now in His body.
But just so your judgment will be sure, I will give one more example from scripture that shows the error of your doctrine.
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?" And no one in heaven or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look into it. And I begin to weep greatly, because no one was fount worthy to open the book, or to look into it; and one of the elders said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals." And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures,) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came, and He took it out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
But I do not expect you to hear words from me as true, since I have lived in my own imagination for so long.
You still make me sad.
If one denies that Jesus is the Christ, that one is of antichrist's spirit. I guess that you have to rewrite scripture to make it fit your doctrine.
And then, you show His service to the Father by saying that He mediates between us and the Father.
Belief is not seeing. You say that if one believes on the Son, that they have seen Him. Have you seen Him? Then, you are just as He is now in His body.
But just so your judgment will be sure, I will give one more example from scripture that shows the error of your doctrine.
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?" And no one in heaven or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look into it. And I begin to weep greatly, because no one was fount worthy to open the book, or to look into it; and one of the elders said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals." And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures,) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came, and He took it out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
But I do not expect you to hear words from me as true, since I have lived in my own imagination for so long.
You still make me sad.
I would be suprised if you get a response to this VW, I didn't. Red quoted the end of Rev ch 4 to me to prove Christ was God Himself sitting on the throne
When I pointed out to him(as you have) this would mean that the lion of the tribe of Judah, the lamb that was slain, the root of David took the book from the right hand of Christ he did not reply
When I pointed out to him(as you have) this would mean that the lion of the tribe of Judah, the lamb that was slain, the root of David took the book from the right hand of Christ he did not reply
E
Then can you explain why Paul makes it clear it is not grace and works, or else grace is no longer grace. How he explains that Abraham was not saved by works, for if he was he has something to boast (take credit for)
Yes he does, I do not deny this. But if this is a requirement for salvation, then salvation becomes earned and no longer is a gift.
Yeah they did, And as scripture says, Mankind from this time forward have been unable "not to sin" This is what the law was given for. So we would see our need of a savior. for when we place our lives next to the law, we see we are guilty, and no man has excuse. Yet God makes it clear, the law can save no one, As Paul said, it gives us a "knowledge" of sin, it does not save us by obeying it, If it could Christ would not have had to die.
Again I ask. How good is good enough? why does anyone think they would ever be good enough to be saved? Or to earn salvation.
Amen!!
Yet it was Paul who taught that the Holy Spirit was given as a seal, a guarantee of eternal life. Until the day of redemption. If this seal could be broken, Paul lied, thus Paul lied.
God told the 7 churches to overcome, because as a church unit they were turning from him (he was not speaking to individuals in the church, but the church itself)
So you were there? You knew what the ephesian Church thought? What the corinthian and Galation church thought?
Why do people keep going back to history? to prove their point?
lol, Here we go again. No Church that I know of would tell a Christian they can sin all they want. Nor would I. Does anyone realy want to know what we believe? Or do we want to continue in our preconceived notions of what we believe, or what we have been taught they believe (tradition)
It sure would be nice if people would see we do not believe the things we keep getting accused of believing over and over again
Yes he does, I do not deny this. But if this is a requirement for salvation, then salvation becomes earned and no longer is a gift.
Yeah they did, And as scripture says, Mankind from this time forward have been unable "not to sin" This is what the law was given for. So we would see our need of a savior. for when we place our lives next to the law, we see we are guilty, and no man has excuse. Yet God makes it clear, the law can save no one, As Paul said, it gives us a "knowledge" of sin, it does not save us by obeying it, If it could Christ would not have had to die.
Again I ask. How good is good enough? why does anyone think they would ever be good enough to be saved? Or to earn salvation.
Amen!!
Yet it was Paul who taught that the Holy Spirit was given as a seal, a guarantee of eternal life. Until the day of redemption. If this seal could be broken, Paul lied, thus Paul lied.
God told the 7 churches to overcome, because as a church unit they were turning from him (he was not speaking to individuals in the church, but the church itself)
So you were there? You knew what the ephesian Church thought? What the corinthian and Galation church thought?
Why do people keep going back to history? to prove their point?
lol, Here we go again. No Church that I know of would tell a Christian they can sin all they want. Nor would I. Does anyone realy want to know what we believe? Or do we want to continue in our preconceived notions of what we believe, or what we have been taught they believe (tradition)
It sure would be nice if people would see we do not believe the things we keep getting accused of believing over and over again