Not By Works

[Chris1975]

Seriously... well then you admit dedication earns salvation ... you admit you earn salvation by your works...

You admit your dogma is outside the New Covenant which is salvation a gift given not earned by grace through faith apart from works ...so no one can boast.

So you admit your dogma is founded on self worth and boast.

The Part we do, and the Part He does.

Hebrews 12
12 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the [a]author and [b]finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[NayborBear]

Well I agree I am ignorant of many things ....my passion is the preservation of the Gospel Truth....may God grant me more time to learn other Truth.

But I do know this much God deals with nations and individuals ...best not to mix the two.

And others who know more can correct you.
And absolutely no need for sorrow I know who Jesus is and what He has accomplished.

If you keep preaching and teaching that salvation can never be lost?

Then, you are not as Spiritually mature, as you make yourself look like you are.

I'd say, I'd "wait" for those who you say "know more."

Know what? Been there....Done that!

CRICKETS!

 

[Judges1318]

John 6:40 - “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

That's an awesome promise.
So let's make sure we keep believing.

 

[NayborBear]

and the sin which so easily ensnares us

These people would like to believe themselves exempt from this!

 

[gb9]

If you keep preaching and teaching that salvation can never be lost?

Then, you are not as Spiritually mature, as you make yourself look like you are.

I'd say, I'd "wait" for those who you say "know more."

Know what? Been there....Done that!

CRICKETS!

that is as ridiculous as someone saying that one has to keep the Sabbath to be right with God?


do you know anyone who pushes this??

anyone??

 

[JohnW34]

These people would like to believe themselves exempt from this!

Heb 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

I know how easily I can fall, find things shift, lose focus, and drop the ball.
If sin is not an issue why is it said like this

Rev 21:27
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

But maybe too few desire to do God's will and walk in His paths, but what to speak like they do.

 

[NayborBear]

John 6:40 - “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

I believe that verse! Yet, this is what happens on too many occasions! When "overconfidence" ensnares them!
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

That verse you posted, to me? Is "kicking the can down the road!" In one's attempts in the justifying of oneself from NOT becoming Spiritually mature!
In a "perma-milk" "RELIGION!"

 

[Melach]

Here are the gifts and calling that Paul was talking about:

"4who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises" - Romans 9:4

These will never be revoked from Israel because he promised them to Israel through Abraham, even though he has rejected them at this present time. He will never change his mind about Israel and His future plans for them. Future Israelites will inherit the promises made to Abraham. He swore to it. His Word is his oath.

"28From the standpoint of the gospel they (Israel) are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." - Romans 11:28-29

loool you went two chapters back to find what its talking about.

its talking about gifts plural, any and all gifts of God nothing complicated there. you just have to change it to make salvation losable

 

[mailmandan]

That's an awesome promise. So let's make sure we keep believing.

20 + years now and counting. It would be unfathomable for me to imagine to ever stop believing.

 

[Rosemaryx]

20 + years now and counting. It would be unfathomable for me to imagine to ever stop believing.

That's because you are a new creation in Christ , the old has passed , the new has begun...
I have been saved just over 4 yrs , I fall deeper and deeper into Him as the days pass , I to could not even imagine one moment without Him , like the apostle said " Where would we go LORD "...
...xox...

 

[EleventhHour]

If you keep preaching and teaching that salvation can never be lost?

Then, you are not as Spiritually mature, as you make yourself look like you are.

I'd say, I'd "wait" for those who you say "know more."

Know what? Been there....Done that!

CRICKETS!

Hebrews teaches the exact opposite of what you state...... the mature do no put Jesus to open shame and back on the cross by stating His work was not sufficient to save to the uttermost.

 

[EleventhHour]

20 + years now and counting. It would be unfathomable for me to imagine to ever stop believing.

Amen ...And Jesus remains Faithful...it is about Him.

 

[star]

Happy and blessed New Year to all.

 

[star]

Don't get to post here as much as I'd like to but whenever I do come on, I can spot those who standout immediately.

 

[JohnW34]

This is how we should pray
Matt 6:9-10
"This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Rom 6:18
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

We cannot deny what God has made us, new creations in Christ.

 

[BillG]

@NayborBear

You dislike, and/or disagree with everything I post. And, the same will probably happen with this post as well, eh?

Please be reassured that any dislike/disagrees that I give are not personal.
I have just had a quick look to see how many.
I thought about working out a ratio to posts posted and reactions given.
I do read all your posts.
I never respond to a post I have not read.

I decided not to do a ratio of my reactions to posts life is too short.

So just wanted to say any negative reaction is not of a personal intent concerning you as a person.

It's just that I disagree with what you have said. Blessings to you my friend.

 

[EleventhHour]

Heb 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

I know how easily I can fall, find things shift, lose focus, and drop the ball.
If sin is not an issue why is it said like this

Rev 21:27
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

But maybe too few desire to do God's will and walk in His paths, but what to speak like they do.

Who has stated sin is not an issue... but let us also remember that all sin has been been dealt with at the cross ...so for the believer these verses are not speaking to sin as though it could cause the loss of salvation.

 

[BillG]

Sure I can! What I'm not so sure about is why I should!

You dislike, and/or disagree with everything I post. And, the same will probably happen with this post as well, eh?

At that point in time, and place, of Jehovah's anger? NOT much unlike the Lord God of Hosts "grief", He had after the "garden of Eden incident", where and when He was "grieved to His heart, that He made man flesh?"

Jehovah was telling Moses: "Get outta My head Moses!" "Because I WANT to destroy ALL these "sons of Abraham!" "And, START ANEW!" "With YOU Moses!"

It doesn't "say" in the Bible as to why Moses didn't agree with Jehovah! Because He surely was angry enough with them ALL! EVEN his own brother!
But, methinks, there are "pieces of information", given, to where "dots can be connected", where Moses "more then likely" took a "step back", and not "knowing the future", and not having Aaron there as his "mouth piece", so to speak, probably gave Moses motivation, in his seeking around Jehovah's "anger" to the Lord God of Hosts! Or, a "cooler SIDE of God!" As is seen in verse 11.

To which Moses made his "appeal", to Elohim (Adonai Elohim of Hosts) to remember the Promises He made to Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. In "essence?" Going "over the head" of Jehovah, "TO the Seven Spirits of God", well? To that and those "Spirit/s" having to do with Israel!

As we can read in verse 14? For better, or? As "apostasy marches forwards?" For worse? Moses succeeded!

I actually like the above post.
I appreciate the cander.

I never thought about Moses taking a step back because he was unsure of the future.
Are you thinking it could have been because he was scared for himself?

The verses do not seem to indicate that from

Exodus 32:12-13
12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, ‘He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and relent from this harm to Your people.
13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’ ”

I looked again last night at these verses.

V12 seems to be Moses saying "You wipe em out then Egypt will say your purpose was to kill them and not save them (God told Moses to tell Pharo to let his people go)

Then I looked at V13.

Did not Abrham plead to God about the destruction of Soddom and Gomorrah?
Just as Moses did for Israel.

Maybe God relented on that promise given.
I think probably V12 supercede by V13
God keeping true to his promises.

 

[Discern]

who are the warnings to? i still dont know lolz and i believe in eternal security.

I believe many of the the warnings are the means by which God sanctifies and preserves believers. They keep us on the path so that our joy may be full and so that we might not have things tripping us up. God wants us to abound, and the warnings warn against things that will rob us of that abundance.

And other warnings serve to warn people who are deceiving themselves, and not truly saved, and some who are on the very threshold, but are in danger of failing to enter, like the Hebrews that failed to enter the land, which were a type and a shadow of those who come close to being saved, and fall short of it, due to unbelief.

 

[VCO]

If you keep preaching and teaching that salvation can never be lost?

Then, you are not as Spiritually mature, as you make yourself look like you are.

I'd say, I'd "wait" for those who you say "know more."

Know what? Been there....Done that!

CRICKETS!

WRONG, but your mistake is common among some believers. Your mistake is you include disciples that were NOT BORN AGAIN, as being part of US BORN AGAIN Believers. Disciples means FOLLOWER OF A TEACHER, and DOES NOT MEAN they are Born Again or SAVED. WE DO NOT INCLUDE DISCIPLES THAT WERE NEVER BORN AGAIN. Only BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS will be taken to Heaven, and they will NEVER FALL AWAY.

John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[,That "born of water" is a reference to the breaking of water, in Natural Childbirth. A follower of Jesus can be one that has never been Born Again. However, we do not count them as being one of us, Born Again Believers. How do I know that is a reference to Natural Childbirth? Look at the next verse.]
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


Matthew 7:20-23 (NKJV)
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' [.These are those disciples that have NEVER been Born Again.]
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

That I never knew you is a reference to the Born Again experience. John 10:27-28
They had never received HIM as LORD, meaning Master. Rom. 10:9-10, says IT MUST BE A CONFESSION, that happens first IN your human spirit, whereas they only PROFESSED it.
They Never had the inner, personal Relationship, where You are immersed IN HIS SPIRITUAL BODY, by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:12-13
They Remain, lord of their own Lives. John 1:12-13
They Fail to Produce Any Spiritual Fruit, Gal. 5:22-23

If you could get over the idea that everyone who goes to Church and sits on a Pew, is a Christian. It would go a mile towards restoring the Fellowship between us. Let me explain the Parable of the Gates in Mat. 7, I think it will shed some light on the subject.

In the Parable of the Gates, HE is talking about only people who think they are Christians.

Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.


Every single person on those the ROADS, think they are on the right path to heaven. Every single person calls Him LORD. NOW read again Mat 7:22. NOTICE the Many in verse 22, are the Same as the many in verse 13. OH MY! That is what I mean that there is NO NON CHRISTIANS listed in Verse 13. The verse numbers were not added to the English Bible until 1560. John, inspired BY THE LORD, is talking about HOW TO TELL PHONY CHRISTIANS FROM TRUE CHRISTIANS. And HE said many not me. OH MY! I hope a light bulb just when on, inside your intellect.

Now Notice:

Matthew 7:20 (NKJV)
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Fruits are Lifestyle Characteristics, not something that happens one time, or even on rare occasions, but something that dominates their LIFESTYLE. So we can too identify what is going on in their hearts, by carefully watching what kind of FRUITS IT PRODUCES in their lives. It may take awhile with some people and others it will happen more quickly.

Here are Good Spiritual Fruits, followed By BAD FRUITS:

Galatians 5:22-26 (HCSB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is {agape} love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit.
26 We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Now for the BAD FRUIT that Characterize False Christians Lives:

Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

HE said we can identify them by their FRUITS. I have to believe HIM! Now without naming names, some have exhibited BAD FRUITS that I just highlight; that characterizes the dominant characteristics of some who have posted here. If your human spirit is BORN AGAIN, you will have no problem Producing those spiritual Fruits in your life.

Now remember BAD FRUITS is not a one time failure or sin, but that which dominates your lifestyle. Therefore those who exhibit an ongoing lifestyle of Bad Fruits in verse 20; we can be sure they have never been born again.

I hope we can agree on this post.