Has the second coming occurred already?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#281
#281
KJV1611 said:
The only holy place that I can think of is where the blood of the Lamb was shed. What do you think all of those Old Testament shadows of the blood of the Lamb were pointing to? What was the fulfillment of the alter in the most holy place? Or maybe you think that is not yet fulfilled.
Click to expand...
Jesus called the place that the high priest sacrificed animals on the day he was crucified the holy place

he also called the temple where the unbelieving jews who would crucify Christ practiced their idolatry and religion which apposed hm a house of prayer and his fathers house.

Sorry bro But this argument your making is just nonsensical. And defies Logic
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#282
#282
azamzimtoti said:
I dunno about that K16, we need to be careful how we understand the "desolation" and or the "abomination of desolation" - Jesus did declare while he was alive that the Jews' house was left to them desolate:

(Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate)
Click to expand...
An abomination of desolation is a term it comes as a whole. We should interpret it as they interpreted it in the time of Daniel. NT make up our own interpretation
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#284
Jun 30, 2015
25,487
13,793
113
#284
garee said:
Some of the mysteries of God seem strange but true.Its how he hid truth from those who literalize the signified understanding.
Click to expand...
Who would those be? Name some of them.

garee said:
Without them Christ spoke not.
Click to expand...
Wrong, as I've explained many times. Why do you ignore the plain text explaining that Jesus did NOT say "everything" in parables?

garee said:
His outward temporal life was a parable revealing the unseen things of the father. Called faith.
Click to expand...
No, His life was not a parable called faith. If you think it was, then show the Scripture that clearly defines it as such.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#285
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#285
eternally-gratefull said:
Jesus called the place that the high priest sacrificed animals on the day he was crucified the holy place

he also called the temple where the unbelieving jews who would crucify Christ practiced their idolatry and religion which apposed hm a house of prayer and his fathers house.

Sorry bro But this argument your making is just nonsensical. And defies Logic
Click to expand...
The holy place is mentioned several places in the bible but the question is what do all of those holy places point to.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#286
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#286
KJV1611 said:
I know we disagree on this. :)
There was no abomination done in AD 70 that I'm aware of. Especially one as bad as killing your own God.
Click to expand...
Disagreeing is fine K16.

In my view the "desolation thereof" in Luke is another way of saying the "abomination of desolation". The motif is the same and the time frame is the same at the destruction of the temple in which Jesus used the "not one stone" motif.

I don't know what logic can be used to say Matt, Luke are not speaking of the same events.

(Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.)

(Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#287
#287
KJV1611 said:
Ok then who is it an abomination to?
Click to expand...
Its not a who. It is a what

why is that so hard for you to understand?

And abomination which makes desolate could be applied to any holy place from any religion.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#288
#288
KJV1611 said:
The holy place is mentioned several places in the bible but the question is what do all of those holy places point to.
Click to expand...
That has no bearing on where the abomination of desolation will take place. As spoken of in prophecy.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#289
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#289
azamzimtoti said:
Disagreeing is fine K16.

In my view the "desolation thereof" in Luke is another way of saying the "abomination of desolation". The motif is the same and the time frame is the same at the destruction of the temple in which Jesus used the "not one stone" motif.

I don't know what logic can be used to say Matt, Luke are not speaking of the same events.

(Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.)

(Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.)
Click to expand...
Matthew and Luke aren't speaking of different events.

Jesus was an abomination to the Jews according to Psalm 88:8, he is the abomination that made Jerusalem desolate. It's right there in black and white, I can't add anything to it.... This is where the term "abomination of desolation" comes from.

Psa 88:8 Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.

Check out the rest of Psalm 88. Verse 9 is Christ on the cross, verses 10 and 11 are about Christ in Hell.

Psa 88:9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.
Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psa 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#291
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#291
KJV1611 said:
Matthew and Luke aren't speaking of different events.
Click to expand...
Good.

Jesus was an abomination to the Jews according to Psalm 88:8, he is the abomination that made Jerusalem desolate. It's right there in black and white, I can't add anything to it.... This is where the term "abomination of desolation" comes from.

Psa 88:8 Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.

Check out the rest of Psalm 88. Verse 9 is Christ on the cross, verses 10 and 11 are about Christ in Hell.

Psa 88:9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.
Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psa 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Click to expand...
Too much of a stretch for me K16. I just think you are mixing and mismatching scripture - later friend.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#292
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#292
azamzimtoti said:
Good.



Too much of a stretch for me K16. I just think you are mixing and mismatching scripture - later friend.
Click to expand...
Just curious, what is the stretch? The Pslam isn't about Jesus?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#293
#293
KJV1611 said:
Ok then what is it?
Click to expand...
According to the Hebrew and historical records.

Its an unclean thing, an or a pagan idol (abomination or literally an abominable thing) which s placed in a holy place. which makes a holy place unclean (desolate)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#294
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#294
eternally-gratefull said:
According to the Hebrew and historical records.

Its an unclean thing, an or a pagan idol (abomination or literally an abominable thing) which s placed in a holy place. which makes a holy place unclean (desolate)
Click to expand...
Were did they get that from, the bible?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#295
#295
Aerials1978 said:
Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Is Preterism correct?

nope
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#296
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#296
Abomination in revelation or matt follow by second coming, It doesn't mean every abomination follow by second coming.

Abomination may happen thausand time but there Will be abomination that follow by second coming
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#297
Nov 20, 2018
23,019
8,374
113
#297
PennEd said:
First off, we don't have to guess what the abomination that causes desolation is. We know it happened in history already, when Antiochus Epiphanes sacrificed a pig on the altar, and erected a statue of Zeus. Jesus points to this event in the Olivet discourse. This HAS NOT happened since Antiochus Epiphanes. It ALMOST happened in A.D. 68 I think it was, but it didn't.

And. Who says this temple is going to be God ordained? Israel has been planning for a long time to rebuild the temple.
Of course, for almost 2000 yrs preterists of every stripe said "See! Told you this temple, and Israel, and antichrist, 1000 yr reign stuff was bunk! The nation doesn't exist, and the Jews aren't in the land"..

You would of thought all preterists would have evaporated and admitted they were wrong after May 14th 1948, when David ben Gurion, cited Ezekiel, in declaring the Nation of Israel! But nope. There are just as many now, if not more, than there were then.
Click to expand...
Bravo. Somebody had to speak the patenty obvious to the preterist crowd. Im quite frankly sick and tired of saying the same clear and obvious facts over and over and over again. Presterism is dead and should be kept that way.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#298
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#298
KJV1611 said:
Just curious, what is the stretch? The Pslam isn't about Jesus?
Click to expand...
There could be an allusion to Christ as David being a type K16. That said I don't think that the prophet Daniel would call Christ the abomination. Or that the people of His generation (i.e. his followers) would understand He is speaking of himself.

(Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.)
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#299
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#299
KJV1611 said:
The holy place is mentioned several places in the bible but the question is what do all of those holy places point to.
Click to expand...
Jesus could mean Jerusalem or the temple, not necessarily the Holy of Holies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.