Jesus as King?

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Apr 5, 2020
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These are the only two times it says He was standing and you're suggesting this means pre-trib rapture? Plus it blows my mind you WANT to deny Jesus is King right now. Just wow. I'm sorry brother but He is King right now!!! Read Mat. 28 a little closer, read our final marching orders, it's in my signature

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

He is King right now, and all being born again does is open our eyes to the truth of it. Jesus is reigning King right now ruling until all enemies have been made a footstool for His feet. He is seated, the work is done. You take this 1 verse where it says "standing" and cling to it like there's not at least 3 times as many that say He's seated. In this verse Jesus may have stood up off His throne to welcome His child being martyred right then. Who knows, it only says that here.

I don't know man, even if I disagreed with this view I'd have to find another "hill to die on" rather than argue "Jesus is not King", just because of the words coming out of my mouth. There is no other point you could make here, nothing else to debate other than, "Jesus isn't King". He is my King right now, as a matter of FACT He is everyone's King right now. They're just blind to it, this is what being born again is, having our spiritual eyes and ears resurrected and open to the TRUTH. I know the way you see it and it robs our Lord of so much glory and power. It breaks my heart.


I am not denying that Jesus is not King, Lord, God, Savior, Mediator, etc. I was only pointing out that Stephen, being full of the Holy Spirit, was able to see the very Throne Room of God and Jesus is "Standing on the Father's right hand," not sitting as other Scriptures indicate. I have no idea how you have concluded what you have towards what I believe, but you are so far from the truth it's outright ridiculous!
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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I am not denying that Jesus is not King, Lord, God, Savior, Mediator, etc. I was only pointing out that Stephen, being full of the Holy Spirit, was able to see the very Throne Room of God and Jesus is "Standing on the Father's right hand," not sitting as other Scriptures indicate. I have no idea how you have concluded what you have towards what I believe, but you are so far from the truth it's outright ridiculous!
I thought about that after I posted, and have really trying to be more careful of this kind of thing, but I was in no way suggesting you didn't love Him at all. I'm just saying that there is no denying the combination of words you are using. Right? But please know I was not questioning at all your love of our God. I wish I would have made that more clear in my comment.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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I thought about that after I posted, and have really trying to be more careful of this kind of thing, but I was in no way suggesting you didn't love Him at all. I'm just saying that there is no denying the combination of words you are using. Right? But please know I was not questioning at all your love of our God. I wish I would have made that more clear in my comment.

No worries, Brother. In my mind, this never happened. We are all good!
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Preaching the kingdom is not saving anyone. The message of the cross is specific. Nobody before the cross was born again. Only the shed blood of Jesus can save, not the prophecies thereof. John 3 is clear.
Only the saved believe the gospel. It saves only their lives while on earth through knowledge and holy living. They are already eternally saved.
 

tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom which includes the present reign of Christ along with his death, burial and resurrection. You think he is twiddling his thumbs until the pharisaic millennium begins. The truth is, He is God and has always ruled the universe as he does today.
Who is twiddling the thumbs, Paul? The reign of Christ begins at the start of the 1000 year reign as stated in Revelation and elsewhere by the prophets. I do agree though that God has always ruled the universe and still does.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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You should have included the former verses to establish the context. He has not come yet. Then come th the end. When He comes, He will reign then deliver up the kingdom to God.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Right the end is not yet, and Jesus has not come yet.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The man Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men, for only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God, which God reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

Jesus said all power is given to Him in heaven and earth, which power does not have to be given to Jesus as God but as the man Christ Jesus.

Christ is the firstfruits, and then the saints afterwards at His coming.

Which this is speaking of Christ's humanity as the firstfruits for He was the first person to ascend to heaven, and be glorified, and then the saints afterwards at His coming.

When the Bible says He must reign it is not talking at that point of the kingdom being delivered up to the Father, but it is speaking that He is reigning during the whole Church history.

For He must reign until His enemies are conquered, so when they are conquered the Son does not have to reign anymore.

Which David said the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies your footstool, so once Jesus' enemies are conquered then the Son will not reign anymore.

So He must reign must be talking of Jesus reigning as the mediator, the Savior, and not as the King over the earth.

For Jesus is the reason that salvation is possible, which the man Christ Jesus gave us His human body that washed away our sins, so He must reign in His Savior role until the saints are with Him, and His enemies are conquered.

And then when that happens the Son no longer needs to reign as Savior for it is complete, and the Son will submit to God that God may be all in all without the need for the man Christ Jesus to be the mediator anymore.

For Jesus cannot be reigning now as King for the conditions on this earth would be all according to His ways which they are not.

For He will rule with a rod of iron so it will be all Jesus' way when He rules as King.

Right now Jesus is reigning as the mediator, and Savior, and then when the kingdom is delivered up to God then He shall reign as King on earth.

But of course Jesus is Lord, and the man Christ Jesus' deity is the Lord.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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Dave-L


A kingdom has a King.
This King also is THE DOOR unto the Kingdom.



If one does not enter by way of THE DOOR, then they are still outside THE DOOR...and THE KINGDOM.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Who is twiddling the thumbs, Paul? The reign of Christ begins at the start of the 1000 year reign as stated in Revelation and elsewhere by the prophets. I do agree though that God has always ruled the universe and still does.
Jesus refuted this idea exposing the Pharisees who preached it.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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Jesus refuted this idea exposing the Pharisees who preached it.
HE also said in that verse, that if I cast out demons, then whom do the children cast them out by?
And they shall be your judges...

HIS KINGDOM is not of this world...but it will be when all things have been completed...when HE has put the last of HIS enemies under HIM...

The KINGDOM is being built up now, in HIS BODY...and the end will not come, until the last one who belongs to HIM is gathered up and in HIM...
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Jesus refuted this idea exposing the Pharisees who preached it.
Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

There is a clear distinction made here between the Father and the Son. It is clear that the Father is on the throne and not the Son.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

There is a clear distinction made here between the Father and the Son. It is clear that the Father is on the throne and not the Son.
You are wrong on your understanding of the trinity.

“Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” Jude 5 (ESV)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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You are wrong on your understanding of the trinity.

“Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” Jude 5 (ESV)
Enough with the corrupt versions.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

How do you explain Revelation 7? There are two named, God and the Lamb. Scripture clearly differentiates between the two.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Enough with the corrupt versions.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

How do you explain Revelation 7? There are two named, God and the Lamb. Scripture clearly differentiates between the two.
You need to go back to the trinitarian creeds. Then it will all make sense. BTW, Jesus = YHWH in the OT. The NLT makes it easier to understand. But the Greek proves it.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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You need to go back to the trinitarian creeds. Then it will all make sense. BTW, Jesus = YHWH in the OT. The NLT makes it easier to understand. But the Greek proves it.
I don't adhere to creeds, but the King James Bible. You should do the same.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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I don't adhere to creeds, but the King James Bible. You should do the same.
You write a creed every time you post. I rely on the creeds that have stood the test of time provided by the Lord through the early church.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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You write a creed every time you post. I rely on the creeds that have stood the test of time provided by the Lord through the early church.
Creeds are not provided by the Lord, only His word. You equate creeds to Scripture, not good. No wonder you have a man made theology.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Creeds are not provided by the Lord, only His word. You equate creeds to Scripture, not good. No wonder you have a man made theology.
No, I read books. Those who refuse to read them lack understanding as a result.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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In my studies, The Bible clearly states that Jesus is not King yet, He is not currently ruling on the throne of David. Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession for believers, acting as our high priest. His throne is future. Jesus is not currently ruling this earth.

Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
I think this a is a very big stretch. Jesus said " I AM" and the temple guards fell as dead when they came to take Him. Jesus said no man takes my life, I lay it down freely and I have the Power to take it back again. Jesus is God; King of kings and Lord of lords NOW.

Jesus is now Seated high above all. Are you telling me HE is going to be even Higher than HE is right now?

We confess with our mouth Jesus Christ is Lord Roman 10:9 says. That is not statement of future status, that is who Jesus is now.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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If Jesus were ruling this earth then it would be His way on earth and no other way for the Bible says He rules with a rod of iron, not a tin foil magic wand, for there is still wars, and people sinning.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

When the nations come together as one to work for peace on earth when the New Age Christ establishes a peace treaty in the Middle East then sudden destruction comes upon them.

Which the coronavirus will bring them that much closer for China wants to help America, and America wants to help North Korea, and Russia wants to help Italy, and the ball will be rolling.

President Trump said America laid of path towards peace and security for the world, and wants United Nations to take a more active role in the world, and for the nations to step it up and work for peace in the world.

And is pushing for a peace treaty in Israel, which the Prime Minister of Israel said that Trump is the greatest friend they ever had in the White House.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Isa 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Which it is God's purpose to gather all nations together, the wicked, to go against Jerusalem, the Jews, which the peace treaty will cause all Jews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will cause it to happen, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land.

When they attack Jerusalem, the Jews, Jesus will come back with the saints and defeat the world, and save the Jews.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Then it will be Jesus' way and no other way for He shall rule with a rod of iron, and the heathen that God spared have to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship Jesus.

And the heathen shall not acknowledge any other god or religious figure but Jesus.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus came to fulfill the law which includes fulfilling all the roles of Israel, king, high priest, prophet, and whatever else He had to fulfill and it must be done on earth.

But Jesus has not fulfilled the role of King on earth yet for He came as a humble servant.

That is what the millennial reign is about Jesus ruling on earth, and restoring the kingdom to the Jews, and then after the millennial reign heaven and earth shall pass, and there will be a new heaven and earth.

The Bible says there is one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

The Bible says that Jesus sits on the right hand of God.

Jesus said all power is given unto Him in heaven and earth.

There is one God, and mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

God's right hand represents power, salvation, and wisdom.

David said the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies your footstool.

Which Paul said the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered, and the Son shall submit to the Father that God may be all in all.

Jesus being at the right hand of God is a temporary role UNTIL all His enemies are conquered, and the saints are with Him, for then He does not need to exercise throne of power anymore.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power, be at His right hand, until all His enemies are conquered, and then Son shall submit to God the Father, stop exercising the throne of power, stop being at the right hand, that God may be all in all.

So Jesus is not sitting next to the Father on a throne for there is only one throne in heaven, and one who sits on it, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

And Jesus told Philip if he has seen Him, he has seen the Father.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus who is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, for God is only going to show us one visible manifestation.
allowing thing to happen that are not according to HIS nature is not to be taken as Jesus is not ruling now. God is or is not in control. He is King now and the world will bow down and confess HE is Lord Jesus did not need man to confess HIM to be Lord for it to be so,
as some kind of validation of HIS status. Jesus is King and lord right now He has allowed the system of the world to controlled not a king the devil who wants to be a king he is known as the Prince of this world system but the devil will never hold the title of a king :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Jesus Christ is indeed the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and always has been. I agree that Jesus has yet to set up His kingdom on earth but this will certainly happen, and judging by the situation in the world, it will be sooner rather than later.
finally something biblically sound of who Jesus is King and Lord amen forever and ever amen.