The "Man of Sin" Prophecies
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Jesus is God incarnate. Go and learn what that means.
You don't know what I believe, clearly.
If you're implying that I do these things, you're wrong, again.
God incarnate.
You don't have a clue what I assume.
He didn't.
Irrelevant.
Wrong.
You don't know what I hope or what I believe, because you don't pay close enough attention. However, because I tell you that you are wrong, you are forced to believe that I am wrong, for that is your only alternative. The problem is that you don't actually know what I believe, so you invent it and then criticize it.
You don't know what I believe, clearly.
If you're implying that I do these things, you're wrong, again.
God incarnate.
You don't have a clue what I assume.
He didn't.
Irrelevant.
Wrong.
You don't know what I hope or what I believe, because you don't pay close enough attention. However, because I tell you that you are wrong, you are forced to believe that I am wrong, for that is your only alternative. The problem is that you don't actually know what I believe, so you invent it and then criticize it.
Anything that is not of the faith of Christ as it is written, is sin. The Son of man seen resisted worship as the Good unseen Master. The one unseen teaching authority inspired from above. . he would not rob the unseen glory of the father and give it to corruptible flesh.
Jesus would not stand in the holy place of faith. A abomination of desolation making the word of God void as the hearing of His faith, that works in us with us.
It is NOT written as such...anything that is not done IN FAITH, sir...FAITH sir...directed in and on CHRIST...who is THE WAY...back to THE FATHER...
If one does not come by way of CHRIST, sir...born of HIS LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT....one does not have LIFE...
Was CHRIST right to tell the woman at the well that HE was THE LIVING WATER?
(Not only the BREAD of LIFE which came down from Heaven,,,,but...THE LIVING WATER as well)
If one does not come by way of CHRIST, sir...born of HIS LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT....one does not have LIFE...
Was CHRIST right to tell the woman at the well that HE was THE LIVING WATER?
(Not only the BREAD of LIFE which came down from Heaven,,,,but...THE LIVING WATER as well)
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Yes the Son of man, Jesus the first born of the brethren us Jesus our High priest and prophet and apostle. The Son of man as a living parable displayed the unseen work of the Good Master Teacher, the father, working in the Son of man to both will and do the good pleasure as two working as one. . The same treasure of the power of the father that we have in our earthen bodies of death also . The power of the unseen, power of faith . Call no man one earth Good Master one is our Teacher in heaven not seen . Not a man.
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
If it applies to our brother in Christ. Jesus. .it applies to us. He spoke through the son of man putting his words on the prophet Jesus' lips not as the Son of man but by and through like all prophets. . Call no man Master Teacher on earth. One is our Father in heaven
There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother. Mark 3:31-35
He calls us brothers and sisters and mothers but "not fathers' .One is our Holy Father in heaven
Matthew 12:49-50 King James Version (KJV) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
I don't think the Son of man Jesus had rights like all believers they have responsibilities. to do the will of God .the food or power the disciples at first knew not of.
I would say he had the responsibility to pronounce the words the father put on his lips? you have heard it said long ago . "(The father speaking from heaven" ) ...but I the father SAY TO YOU...
We magnify the father not seen the holy place
I would say he had the responsibility to pronounce the words the father put on his lips? you have heard it said long ago . "(The father speaking from heaven" ) ...but I the father SAY TO YOU...
We magnify the father not seen the holy place
Yes some had no faith, a froward generation . Not little faith ,zero the generation of Adam. The corrupted evil generation that look to dead flesh as a living hope. The sign as wonderment seekers .. . self edifiers .
Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
The same who crucify him over and over as if one demonstration of the unseen work fell short of the glory of the unseen father.
Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
The same who crucify him over and over as if one demonstration of the unseen work fell short of the glory of the unseen father.
There may have been threads like this already but I think it may be helpful for us to post - in list form - the prophecies in scripture that support who the "man of sin" was/is/will be (depending on your position whether preterist, historicist, futurist) while providing the identity of that man (or your best guess as to what type of man it'll be or where he'll come from).
I don't expect this thread to be too large seeing as there are probably only three points of view matching the three positions, but I think it'll help to see where certain members are coming from in other threads.
I was a futurist during my childhood and then became a historicist as an adult, and I've never been a preterist, so if others could provide the preterist and futurist lists (respectively) I'd appreciate it.
My intent for this thread is to provide passages to study and consider for each position.
-----
Daniel 7
- Is a different kingdom that rises after 10 smaller kingdoms
- Uproots 3 of those kingdoms
- Speaks pompous words against the Almighty
- Try to change the Almighty's times and laws
- Will conquer the Almighty's people for a "time, times, 1/2 time" (1260 days)
Daniel 11
- Will not regard the god of his fathers or any god
- Will not desire women
- Will honor the "god of fortresses" with wealth
- Will attack many governments with this "fortress god"
- Will give rule to those who acknowledge him
- Will divide land at a price
- Will fight a "southern king"
- Will invade Jerusalem
- Authority will cover many countries and he'll gain great wealth
2 Thessalonians 2
- Places himself above all gods
- Calls himself God
- Will be destroyed by Messiah's brightness
- Gained authority from satan to work lying miracles
- He is restrained until "another power" is taken out of his way
Revelation 13
- Will receive a deadly wound but will be healed
- All the world will marvel at him
- Will be in power for 42 months (1260 days)
- Another king will take his power
As a historicist, I believe this "man of sin" was and is the office of The Papacy, as it:
- Is a unique State (The Vatican; even has its own army) that rose out of the 10 kingdoms after the Roman empire (which is the 4th beast and 2 legs of iron of Daniel)
- Uprooted the Heruli, Ostrogoths, and Vandals by the year 538 AD
- Speaks pompous words like "The pope is christ vicariously" and "The pope holds the place of God on earth"
- Established the Gregorian calendar (time), set midnight as the new day (time), changed the day of rest to Sunday (law), changed 2nd & 10th commandments (law). and established new holidays (time & law).
- Initiated the Inquisition through Papal Bull (Dum Diversas), authorizing the hunting, torture & enslavement of "heretics".
- Ruled from 538 AD to 1798 AD (1260 years) until exiled by the French.
- Takes a vow of celibacy
- Honors the statue of Cybele, the goddess of fortresses - also known as Ishtar - which was renamed "Blessed Mary, the queen of heaven". She literally has a fortress as her crown.
- Installed kings who conquered lands and nations in his name
- Was in constant battles with Saracens (from the south) and Ottoman Turks who fought in the name of allah (king of the south) and Islam.
Bonus: By the way, a tabernacle ("Dome of the Rock") was literally established on the temple mount, fulfilling Daniel 11:45 for a tabernacle to be planted on the holy mountain between the seas. The "Dome of the Rock" is Roman/Byzantine architecture, not Islamic.
- Invaded the holy land to take it from Muslims during The Crusades
- Has gained vast wealth and would rule over many countries of Europe
- Gained its power from the Roman Emperor.
- Presents "miracles" to the world from Mary and saints.
- Was restrained in power until Pagan Rome was conquered and taken out of the way. Paul wouldn't need to be cryptic about the Holy Spirit if that is Who was restraining the "man of sin", he would just speak plainly as he has about the Holy Spirit in many other letters. But Rome was still in power at the time of his letter, and there's no telling who would read his letter before it reached his intended audience...especially if he was in custody.
- Was said to have had it's "wound healed" when the papacy's temporal power was restored in the Lateran Concordat of 1929
- Hasn't restored itself to its former level of power and leadership in the world because another world-leading power has currently taken over that role.
- Has many people wondering after him in awe (no matter who sits in the office), seeking an audience with him or a blessing from him
----
So historically, the office of the papacy checks all the boxes for me. And I believe it will not be destroyed until the Messiah comes to burn it away with the brightness of His coming.
I don't expect this thread to be too large seeing as there are probably only three points of view matching the three positions, but I think it'll help to see where certain members are coming from in other threads.
I was a futurist during my childhood and then became a historicist as an adult, and I've never been a preterist, so if others could provide the preterist and futurist lists (respectively) I'd appreciate it.
My intent for this thread is to provide passages to study and consider for each position.
-----
Daniel 7
- Is a different kingdom that rises after 10 smaller kingdoms
- Uproots 3 of those kingdoms
- Speaks pompous words against the Almighty
- Try to change the Almighty's times and laws
- Will conquer the Almighty's people for a "time, times, 1/2 time" (1260 days)
Daniel 11
- Will not regard the god of his fathers or any god
- Will not desire women
- Will honor the "god of fortresses" with wealth
- Will attack many governments with this "fortress god"
- Will give rule to those who acknowledge him
- Will divide land at a price
- Will fight a "southern king"
- Will invade Jerusalem
- Authority will cover many countries and he'll gain great wealth
2 Thessalonians 2
- Places himself above all gods
- Calls himself God
- Will be destroyed by Messiah's brightness
- Gained authority from satan to work lying miracles
- He is restrained until "another power" is taken out of his way
Revelation 13
- Will receive a deadly wound but will be healed
- All the world will marvel at him
- Will be in power for 42 months (1260 days)
- Another king will take his power
As a historicist, I believe this "man of sin" was and is the office of The Papacy, as it:
- Is a unique State (The Vatican; even has its own army) that rose out of the 10 kingdoms after the Roman empire (which is the 4th beast and 2 legs of iron of Daniel)
- Uprooted the Heruli, Ostrogoths, and Vandals by the year 538 AD
- Speaks pompous words like "The pope is christ vicariously" and "The pope holds the place of God on earth"
- Established the Gregorian calendar (time), set midnight as the new day (time), changed the day of rest to Sunday (law), changed 2nd & 10th commandments (law). and established new holidays (time & law).
- Initiated the Inquisition through Papal Bull (Dum Diversas), authorizing the hunting, torture & enslavement of "heretics".
- Ruled from 538 AD to 1798 AD (1260 years) until exiled by the French.
- Takes a vow of celibacy
- Honors the statue of Cybele, the goddess of fortresses - also known as Ishtar - which was renamed "Blessed Mary, the queen of heaven". She literally has a fortress as her crown.
- Installed kings who conquered lands and nations in his name
- Was in constant battles with Saracens (from the south) and Ottoman Turks who fought in the name of allah (king of the south) and Islam.
Bonus: By the way, a tabernacle ("Dome of the Rock") was literally established on the temple mount, fulfilling Daniel 11:45 for a tabernacle to be planted on the holy mountain between the seas. The "Dome of the Rock" is Roman/Byzantine architecture, not Islamic.
- Invaded the holy land to take it from Muslims during The Crusades
- Has gained vast wealth and would rule over many countries of Europe
- Gained its power from the Roman Emperor.
- Presents "miracles" to the world from Mary and saints.
- Was restrained in power until Pagan Rome was conquered and taken out of the way. Paul wouldn't need to be cryptic about the Holy Spirit if that is Who was restraining the "man of sin", he would just speak plainly as he has about the Holy Spirit in many other letters. But Rome was still in power at the time of his letter, and there's no telling who would read his letter before it reached his intended audience...especially if he was in custody.
- Was said to have had it's "wound healed" when the papacy's temporal power was restored in the Lateran Concordat of 1929
- Hasn't restored itself to its former level of power and leadership in the world because another world-leading power has currently taken over that role.
- Has many people wondering after him in awe (no matter who sits in the office), seeking an audience with him or a blessing from him
----
So historically, the office of the papacy checks all the boxes for me. And I believe it will not be destroyed until the Messiah comes to burn it away with the brightness of His coming.
I think it is important to remember The Prophetic word of God has two applications:
1. a forth-telling of things to come in the near future
2. a foretelling of things to come.
I will leave that for ya
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Thanks for contributing Garee. I think I can agree with your first paragraph. Revelation was indeed provided as symbols / signs; says it right at the beginning. And I've found that almost each moment described in its pages is a callback to something in the previous pages of scripture that's mean to help us to understand Revelation's contents.
With your second paragraph, you make a valid point to keep things signified as a rule...But I think when time elements are addressed in the book they're similarly meant to draw us back to the related time elements in past scripture. I think that's why they'd have to be exact numbers, in this case, else we'd have no way to tie them back to books like Daniel, the passages you mentioned, and even to Genesis for me.
In Genesis, Adam is given a warning that "in the day" he sins he will surely die...but he lived exactly "930 years" before dying. Since we have no reason to believe this is a signified book, I'm compelled to believe that since Adam died within 1000 years that the Almighty actually does measure every 1000 years of man as 1 day.
This is one of the things that makes the 1000-year reign an exact measurement for me as opposed to a symbolic one.
Again, thanks for your contribution.
With your second paragraph, you make a valid point to keep things signified as a rule...But I think when time elements are addressed in the book they're similarly meant to draw us back to the related time elements in past scripture. I think that's why they'd have to be exact numbers, in this case, else we'd have no way to tie them back to books like Daniel, the passages you mentioned, and even to Genesis for me.
In Genesis, Adam is given a warning that "in the day" he sins he will surely die...but he lived exactly "930 years" before dying. Since we have no reason to believe this is a signified book, I'm compelled to believe that since Adam died within 1000 years that the Almighty actually does measure every 1000 years of man as 1 day.
This is one of the things that makes the 1000-year reign an exact measurement for me as opposed to a symbolic one.
Again, thanks for your contribution.
Hi Miknik. Thanks for your perspective.
When I read this chapter of Paul's letter I ask myself, "why would Paul need to be passive or cryptic about who was restraining or holding back the "man of sin" if it were the Almighty or His Holy Spirit"? Why not just say it as plainly as Paul mentioned Christ in the opening verse? ...and why here of all places, you know?
It's like he definitely knew something but didn't want to share it openly.
When I read this chapter of Paul's letter I ask myself, "why would Paul need to be passive or cryptic about who was restraining or holding back the "man of sin" if it were the Almighty or His Holy Spirit"? Why not just say it as plainly as Paul mentioned Christ in the opening verse? ...and why here of all places, you know?
It's like he definitely knew something but didn't want to share it openly.