Personal questions

CS1 · Apr 26, 2020

I'm sorry, you keep interject a secular humanist reason for masturbation. The idea of a person having an experience of sexual gratification with themselves because they are in thought or memories of what one calls " loving acts" while they think or have memories of one's spouse that has passed away, is a lie.

And to suggest God is some how playing a part in that so-called " loving acts" is deception.

Robo36 · Apr 26, 2020

I know for a fact it’s not a lie. Why would you assume others are liars when the subject is an act you apparently never performed, never thought about until now or never found any foreboding of it in scripture?

Has God given us the ability to love and be loved? Has God sanctified marriage?

Until somebody can show me scripture that debunks my belief in this issue or my savior Jesus sees it righteous to have me know I’m in error, I can only see and believe the issue as how I see and believe it.

hornetguy · Apr 26, 2020

CS1 said:

I think you are simply projecting your rather puritanical viewpoints onto others, and trying to say it's somehow "scriptural". To adhere to your narrow way of thinking, there should be NO sex between a man and a woman, unless they are trying to conceive.

Adstar · Apr 27, 2020

Robo36 said:

Here the key word is “marriage.” What man can lust after his own wife? What man or woman can be guilty of sin if they masturbate in memory of loving acts having been enjoyed with their loving departed spouse, whether they have passed away or been separated otherwise from them for a time? If that is sin, I do believe our master and savior or somewhere in the scriptures would have guided us. How much of what we have simply been taught in our lifetimes about sex and our religion are simply imagined opinions from others fearful of their own natural sexuality and the creators of non-scriptural taboos?

May my Lord Jesus guide me if I error in my beliefs and instruct me away from sin.

The question did not specify the details you posted here. You are moving the goal posts

Robo36 · Apr 27, 2020

Adstar said:

The goal post has always been "when, if ever is oral sex and or masturbation sinful?" Scripture please.

massorite · Apr 27, 2020

Robo36 said:

There is no scripture to prove Adstar is correct.
The Bible does not discuss masturbation explicitly or mention whether or not it is a sin. So any judgement of whether or not masturbation is a sin or not is purely speculation and since there are no scriptures that specifically say the masturbation is a sin then it is not a sin. If it is not written in the Bible it is not.
We need to remember that men produce sperm 24/7,s and that is the way God made men. So the body needs to release at some point which leads to what is called "wet dreams" which cause a release during the night which a natural function of the body that God made. It also leads to the man's desire to get release from the feeling that comes with the fullness feeling. That to is how God made us.
So in Leviticus there is instruction as to what God required of the men who had a night time release.
Lev 15:16 And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.
Deu 23:10 If there be among you any man, that is not clean by reason of uncleanness that chanceth him by night, then shall he go abroad out of the camp, he shall not come within the camp:
Deu 23:11 But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash himself with water: and when the sun is down, he shall come into the camp again.
These verses are not specific as to whether or not they are talking about masturbation or a "wet dream". But according to these verses if a man has a release during the night it is considered to be unclean and there is no punishment associated with the act of the release but cleansing one's self is required so no it is not considered a sin according to these verses.
However if a man fails to cleanse himself it is considered a sin.
Lev 22:4 What man soever of the seed of Aaron is a leper, or hath a running issue; he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean. And whoso toucheth any thing that is unclean by the dead, or a man whose seed goeth from him;
Lev 22:9 They shall therefore keep mine ordinance, lest they bear sin for it, and die therefore, if they profane it: I the LORD do sanctify them.
However what men are thinking about during the release could be a sin. In the Old Testament it was not a sin to lust in the mind bt in the New Testament it is a sin to lust just by thinking about committing a sin.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
This is an example of how Christ "fulfilled" the law making it a sin to even be thinking in a lustful way about a woman.
Oral sex is also permissible and not a sin in a marriage.
The Bible makes no clear mention of oral sex at all. Therefore, it is difficult to produce an official biblical position. Nevertheless, based on the information that follows, oral sex is not sinful and that it is permissible only within the bonds of marriage between a husband and wife.
The book Song of Solomon is a love poem between a husband and wife. This book is seen in two senses: physical love and a description of God's love for His church. Either way, the book definitely encourages a husband and wife to enjoy the sexual pleasures of one another. It is in this beautiful book that two scriptures appear which may shed light on the issue of oral sex. Let's take a look.
Song 2:3, "Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest, so is my beloved among the young men. In his shade I took great delight and sat down, and his fruit was sweet to my taste."
Song 4:16, "Awake, O north wind, and come, wind of the south; make my garden breathe out fragrance. Let its spices be wafted abroad. May my beloved come into his garden and eat its choice fruits!"
Notice in Song 2:3 that it says, " . . . and his fruit was sweet to my taste." Obviously, this involves very intimate experience. Tasting one another can have a wide variety of applications. It appears that this is a veiled way of alluding to oral sex. Furthermore, if we look at Song 7:8 we read, "I said, I will climb the palm tree. I will take hold of its fruit stalks. Oh, may your breasts be like clusters of the vine." Apparently, fondling of the breasts is meant here. If such enjoyment of the body is intended and since tasting (which involves the mouth) is part of that expression, it would seem safe to say that oral sex is permissible.
What does it mean to eat the choice fruits of his garden in 4:16? She is saying that she is "his garden" and that she desires that he eat of her fruit.
The poetic use of metaphors in describing the physical relationship is sometimes hard to fully apprehend, but it seems obvious from the context that intimate sexual union is implied.
"The beloved's request that the winds blow on her garden, that is, herself was a delicate, poetically beautiful invitation to her lover to fully possess her (come into her). She wished to be his with her charms as available as fruit on a tree."1
Therefore, oral sex is permissible between a husband and wife.

Here is all the Scriptural proof you need to show that neither masturbation or oral sex in a marriage is not a sin and anybody that advises you any differently is giving you a non scriptural unprovable doctrinal belief and is nothing more than an assumption.

EmethAlethia · Apr 27, 2020

biker said:

"Be Fruitful and multiply and fill the earth", was commanded by God TWICE and only TWICE in scripture.

Context is essential. The first time there were (2) and ONLY two people on the planet. The second time was after the great flood when only Noah, his wife and kids and their wives were alive on the planet. Context, context, context. This passage has nothing at all to do with us at this time.

EmethAlethia · Apr 27, 2020

Diakonos said:

Yes, God commands that if your brother takes a wife and has no children, his brother is to take her as wife and raise up an heir for his brother. This is a command of God that has never been revoked by the way. BUT ... the stated topic was masterbation not enjoying the work but refusing to obey God and follow through.

Context people. This is NOT masterbation but refusal to obey God and raise up an heir for your brother... while still taking advantage of the situation. Now if you are obeying God and have taken your brother's wife as your wife and you do this, yes, you are in violation of the commandments of God. Otherwise, the scriptures are completely silent.

EmethAlethia · Apr 27, 2020

Diakonos said:

Yepo. THis passage has nothing at all to do with masterbation, but rather a direct disobedience to the commandments of God to raise up an heir for your dead brother. If you take the wife of your dead brother as your own and refuse to do as God commands and raise up an heir for him you are committing the sin listed here. It has nothing to do with anything else.

EmethAlethia · Apr 27, 2020

CS1 said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa ... the first part is scriptural. God really does say it. the last part God says nothing at all about. Fornication ... check ... adultery which is a kind of fornication .... Yes ... check. Homosexuality ... another kind of fornication ... yes. Check. Bestiality ... again, another type of fornication ... check ... There is NOTHING at all in scripture about masterbation. Sorry. Just illicit intercourse not approved by God, including premarital sex ... another kind of fornication and immorality. You will never find mention of masterbation because God didn't care enough about it to mention it even once. Failure to raise up an heir for your brother in disobedience to a command of God ... check. Disobedience to the commands of God is a sin. But he didn't masterbate. He refused to obey God and raise up an heir for his brother while having sex with her. There is a difference.

The marriage bed is undefiled... if you both enjoy it, have at it. Otherwise even getting each other excited during sex is unnecessary "self pleasure" and becomes sin. God created sex to enjoy. 1Co. 7. In verse 1, what kind of touching results in risk of violation in verse 2? Over and over again, Paul says singleness is better if you have that "gift". Most of us have the other "gift" as one has his gift in one area and another in another. If you can go without touching, and you have self-control, and you are not getting yourself into the trouble of the touching that could lead to fornication, STAY SINGLE. If not, even if you find the touching that is described in verse on, and you are inflaming lusts, get married. EVEN IF THIS OCCURS, if you don't have sex before marriage you have not sinned, let them marry. It is better to marry than to burn.

Which also brings us around to the concept of defrauding. If you do not have issues with sexual desire you have no business dating at all. Of course you should ONLY be considering Christians in the first place even if you do have these issues. Understand that this is natural, and a God approved process, which is why each man is to have his wife and each woman her husband, and it is also why unless you both agree to postpone sex, once married, there is NOTHING that takes precedence if either one of you has the desire, INCLUDING PRAYER. Otherwise you become tempted to sin. If you both don't agree to postpone, find a place and fulfill the others need then.

Sex is not evil. Sexual desire is not evil. We were created to desire it. Unlawful sex ... fornication ... not within the boundaries God gave us ... that is evil and sin. Leading someone to believe that you are going to get married if the temptation is to strong and things are getting out of hand, or rather into hand, that shouldn't be there until marriage IS NOT SIN as long as you get married BEFORE you commit fornication. Evil lusts, unlawful lusts, being in the same room as a woman, who is married to another man, and dwelling on your lusts for her is committing adultery (Sex with a man not your husband, with a woman married to another man) in your mind is a prerequisite for adultery, just as being angry is a prerequisite for murder. If you never pass step one you can never violate step 2.

Those who want to take looking at any woman with a sexual desire are ignoring the words used. First, it is "committed adultery with her in his heart" not "has committed fornication with her in his heart. Second, the word woman used in that passage is the only word for married woman in Greek. If it used fornication instead, then you "might" have a case, but given that even getting to the point of the "touching" in 1Co 7 and acting unbecomingly results in the following, "Let them marry they HAVE NOT SINNED"". That's the problem. We have a belief. We seek out what we can "use" to prove our beliefs true and prove all opposing beliefs false and interpret everything in the light of our beliefs instead of cutting the scriptures out straight.

Here's something for you, how many wives did David have BEFORE he committed adultery? How many did he take after his "adultery" with Bathsheba? How many times was Solomon accused of committing adultery? Pick a meaning for words and terms that makes God 100% consistent, God's word 100% consistent, and God's people 100% consistent (Except where HE reproves them.). Most people care far more about what they "want to believe" "as" truth than they care about truth. Hint: If God, God's people and God's word appear inconsistent in any way, then it is your "beliefs" that are wrong.

According to scripture, David committed adultery precisely one time (When he took the wife f Uriah the Hittite) and, get this, Solomon NEVER committed adultery. God considered valid family to be one man, his wives, and all their children in the O.T. and the meaning of the word adultery has not changed. We don't have to like it. We may "change" the definition to fit what we want God to mean, but His definition for the meaning of the word adultery has not changed, and that meaning is consistent throughout the bible.

EmethAlethia · Apr 27, 2020

CS1 said:

You are a lot closer to the truth on this issue than most. What's the touching that is in 1Co 7:1 referring to? What's it lead to according to verse 2? Now if these things are happening, BUT YOU HAVEN'T COMMITTED FORNICATION, have you sinned? If you do not have self-control and this happens and it is likely to result in fornication (Not adultery), what does 1Co 7 command? Get married YOU HAVE NOT SINNED!"

Robo36 said:

You cannot present what does not exist.

EmethAlethia · Apr 27, 2020

Dave-L said:

Answer: because "Lust" is NOT a sin. Ungodly lusts ... that's a different topic. God made us with desires, some have stronger ones than others. Marriage was designed and instituted by God to give a godly outlet for the lusts most of us have. In the N.T. (1Co. 7) the focus is on fulfilling the sexual desires of your spouse, not specifically on having 43 children, which is the net effect for most if they have sex whenever there is a desire on the part of either party and the goal is not to avoid having kids.

God's purpose ... avoid fornication (1Co. 7:2) if you get all wound up with no place to go, get married PRIOR to verse 2. And if you get married for this reason of unquenchable lust, YOU HAVE NOT SINNED. Yes, "In the Lord." You have no business spending any time with a non-Christian in the first place.

EmethAlethia · Apr 27, 2020

Adstar said:

In the passage in question, the word "Adultery" (A woman and man having sex with a man who is not living husband.) Is used. Plus the wording indicates close proximity, definitely in the same room or you could not be intently gazing on her dwelling on your lusts. If fornication was used you might have a case, but the word "woman" in the passage is the only Greek word that can be used for "married" woman. If you add to it David having 7 wives BEFORE committing adultery, and possibly taking up to 20 more AFTER that committing of adultery, plus Solomon's never being accused of it, then you can see that our modern definition, and God's, differ greatly.

... but ... people love their beliefs. they hunt down what they think they can "use' to prove their beliefs true, prove all opposing beliefs false, and then they interpret everything in the light of their beliefs discrediting, invalidating, explaining away, or just plain ignoring what doesn't seem to fit. Don't believe me? What do they do with the (2) passages where God the Father says He took multiple wives ... didn't know about those, did you? Does God commit adultery? If the modern definition is correct, He does.

That's the point. when we get the correct meaning EVERYTHING on the topic fits perfectly with everything else. If God, God's Word, God's people ... appear inconsistent with our beliefs, it is because the beliefs are wrong.

There is NOTHING new under the sun. THe same desires, wants, needs, lusts ... exist now that existed for all time. God is silent on masterbation, completely silent other than to say, "Clean up afterwards". The problem: People want to teach as precepts of God the commandments of men, while making of no effect the actual commandments of God. People have masterbated since the begining of time, and God is silent... just clean up afterwards. You want what scripture says, that's it. THe marriage bed is undefiled, except if they do this, and except if you do that, and except ... sorry ... God makes no exceptions. Adding exceptions is nullifying God's word and substituting your own as superior to His. Sorry, if you do this, even your worship is worthless. God says so.

Diakonos · Apr 27, 2020

EmethAlethia said:

First of all, I just want to say that I love your name. Alethia means "Truth" i.e. "genuine"

Beautiful name.

Secondly, God doesn't cover every single situation in the Bible case by case. But He does give us principles that cover every case. This was a situation where someone was perusing the desires of the flesh and neglecting responsibility. We don't need this verse to prove that masturbating is sinful. Jesus used condemned "immorality"=pornea, which is all sexual activity outside of the context of a marriage of one man and one women.

presidente · Apr 27, 2020

Robo36 said:

Which causes one to wonder about the following questions?

Is it wrong to have naked pictures of your wife or husband and look at them?

Is it wrong to keep them if your spouse dies and gets remarried.

Let's just stay away from time travel sex ethics questions.

presidente · Apr 27, 2020

The only attempt I have heard at using scripture about the idea of not masturbating is that some Greek Orthodox consider it to be 'malakite', translated 'effeminate' in I Corinthians 6. It means 'soft' and was used of men who were morally weak in some way. It might have also been used in some contexts to refer to the more passive partner in the female role, the one being lain with. I wonder if the Greek Orthodox who wrote that considered masturbation to be morally weak or if they reasoned that catamites engage on such behaviors on other men, and if men do that to themselves, they consider that to be catamite behavior. I'm not sure the reasoning, and I'm not saying I accept it either. It would not directly comment on female masturbation, but Paul makes a negative comment about same sex female behavior even though it is not specifically addressed in the Torah as far as I can see.

CS1 · Apr 27, 2020

EmethAlethia said:

Love how those who say "the word of God says nothing about masturbation" yet they do not understand creating wickedness and perversion. The word God does not list everything man did that Offend Him.

Gen 6:5

" And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Does the text provide all of what is "wickedness"? No. Did the text provide details to what was every imagination and thought of man's heart which was evil continually? No.

Let try to be mature and ask ourselves if what we see God punished, judged, and destroyed Men, women, kings, cities, and nations for doing or thinking constantly that is evil. Where do you think masturbation is with God? Just take a wild guess

What would a Holy God like to see in one's presence alone while one is masturbating is that praise worthy? So we can engage in perversion because God did not say "you cannot masturbate". You know what that sounds like? The same thing the devil told the women in the garden

" You shall not surely die".

Your understanding of King David is not in context to the office of a King. First off, God's plan for Marriage is found in Gen 2:24. Jesus also repeated in Mark 10:7. The Office of a King was the punishment to the people of God because they rejected God.

A king could have many wives and concubines. If you remember God told David God said to David
2sam 12:8

I gave you your master’s house and his wives and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. And if that had not been enough, I would have given you much, much more.

King David looked only to be concerned about his own pleasure. If one sees what David did and thinks it is a kind of way God somehow endorses what David did. You need to read on. You do not look at sin to justify another sin.

King Solomon too was allowed things as normative to the office of a King but not as to normal man and women.
For the record, Solomon was an idol worshiper who started out with sexual perversion. it then degraded in a spiral of sin that caused him to lose the Kingdom.

tourist · Apr 27, 2020

presidente said:

A dead spouse that remarries would be a match made in heaven.

FlyingDove · Apr 27, 2020

Robo36 said:

Marriage:
Hebrews 13:4 (A) Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled:

(NOTE: Having said that, if one partner is uncomfortable (you really should have talked about this before the I do's) I would say the loving thing to do is respect their view)

Masturbation
1st, If this action troubles your conscience, I wouldn't recommend partaking.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Deu_19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

(NOTE: This verse doesn't condemn rubbing one out (LOL) unless you're in a public setting)

presidente · Apr 27, 2020

presidente said:

That should be,
Is it wrong to keep them and look at them if your spouse dies and you get remarried?

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