Is Christ's church divided?

[eternally-gratefull]

You are sounding like LBG and making demands that people answer your questions. The Pharisees, the Sadducees, members of the Sanhedrin and many of the religious Jews did not live in immorality or sin like others, or as you have suggested with your example, But Christ told them that the harlots and publicans would enter the kingdom before them. That seems to be a very strange statement coming from the lips of our Lord Jesus Christ. I do not think for a minute he was condoning sin but rather was exposing the deception of the heart of those religious Jews that trusted in their own morally adjusted righteousness whether according to the law or their own conscience.

Well, Unlike you who thinks they know it all. I answered a question that was asked. What gives you or anyone else the right to change the question that was asked by another person. And demand that those who answer his or her question follow your line of thinking which does not even answer the question the person asked?

If you want to speak about something else. Or ask another question feel free. But when someone asked you something. Try to show a little humility and answer them instead of beating around the bush and never actually answering what they asked.

The only thing I can assume by your refusal to stick to the question is you are unable to ask. Then you want to judge us who actually answer the question? So much pride, and so little humility. You do know what God said he does to the pride do you not?

 

[Red33]

Well, Unlike you who thinks they know it all. I answered a question that was asked. What gives you or anyone else the right to change the question that was asked by another person. And demand that those who answer his or her question follow your line of thinking which does not even answer the question the person asked?

If you want to speak about something else. Or ask another question feel free. But when someone asked you something. Try to show a little humility and answer them instead of beating around the bush and never actually answering what they asked.

The only thing I can assume by your refusal to stick to the question is you are unable to ask. Then you want to judge us who actually answer the question? So much pride, and so little humility. You do know what God said he does to the pride do you not?

You really are like LBG. Perhaps you to do not honor our Lord Jesus Christ as the one and only true God, who was God manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit and put all our sins away. God came for sinners and not the righteous (Mt 9:13). That should not be a difficult thing to understand if you have the Spirit and believe the written word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You really are like LBG. Perhaps you to do not honor our Lord Jesus Christ as the one and only true God, who was God manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit and put all our sins away. God came for sinners and not the righteous (Mt 9:13). That should not be a difficult thing to understand if you have the Spirit and believe the written word.

lol. Wow such Pride! Why are you so afraid to answer the man's question? And since I did, I am just like him?

Well, I guess you answered the question. You do not know how to answer his question. I am sorry to hear that.

Maybe some more bible study will help?

 

[livingbygrace]

Hey bro I somehow missed this. SO red does not think repentance is essential for salvation? How can one who is Gods enemy, come to have faith in Christ without repentance? How can one who in his own nature does not think he is a sinner and in need of a savior (which would be ALL men before salvation) come to believe he is a sinner and in need of a savior without repentance?

Has red aver answered why?

Hi EG

I cannot now remember Red's answer to myself and others in a debate. All the scriptures were put to Red from various people showing that repentance is essential for salvation/conversion but he adamantly refused to accept them. This is not a belief I personally have ever come accross before

Christ said. If you do not repent you will perish

 

[Red33]

lol. Wow such Pride! Why are you so afraid to answer the man's question? And since I did, I am just like him?

Well, I guess you answered the question. You do not know how to answer his question. I am sorry to hear that.

Maybe some more bible study will help?

It has been answered and was rejected because the heart was filled with relevant righteousness and not with the wisdom of God's grace. If you can't see beyond relevant righteousness then you will never be able to comprehend and minister the grace of God when your understanding does not include the cross or the mercy of God. As a believer you should understand through grace that Christ came for sinners. If you see any man in sin and you have the mind of Christ, then you know that Christ came for that man and shed His blood for his sins. Being reconciled we should know that and be able to minister that same reconciliation to the sinner that was ministered to us when we were in sin.

 

[livingbygrace]

lol. Wow such Pride! Why are you so afraid to answer the man's question? And since I did, I am just like him?

Well, I guess you answered the question. You do not know how to answer his question. I am sorry to hear that.

Maybe some more bible study will help?

Red can try and evade answering the question directly, but it is ABSURD to suggest that for Ten years after a claimed conversion a person can constanlty/ceaselessly/continuously act as described in the example given and be in a saved state

It was put to Red that he beieved in a 'free Grace/easy believism. The person who commented on this stated that the grace he believed in must have more power than the grace Red believed in for the true grace he believed in would change a person after a true conversion and not let them remain in the state described

Spurgeon said it is Christ's responsibility to change us as we trust in him and we are sanctified by the spirit

What would this say for the power of the cross and faith in Christ if Red is right? The Gospel would be seen as impotent and lacking in power.

 

[livingbygrace]

It has been answered and was rejected because the heart was filled with relevant righteousness and not with the wisdom of God's grace. If you can't see beyond relevant righteousness then you will never be able to comprehend and minister the grace of God when your understanding does not include the cross or the mercy of God. As a believer you should understand through grace that Christ came for sinners. If you see any man in sin and you have the mind of Christ, then you know that Christ came for that man and shed His blood for his sins. Being reconciled we should know that and be able to minister that same reconciliation to the sinner that was ministered to us when we were in sin.

Lets put aside empty words and state plain scripture

Those who live according to the sinful. nature have their minds set on what that nature desires. But those who live according to the spirit have their minds set on what the spirit desires
The mind of sinf
ul man is death, but the mind controlled by the spirit is life and peace

Rom 8:5&6

For sin SHALL NOT BE YOUR MASTER FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE

WHAT THEN? SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE? BY NO MEANS! Don't you know that when ypou offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves YOU ARE SLAVES TO THE ONE WHOM YOU OBEY, WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, or to obediance which leads to righteousness
Rom 6:14-16

DO NOT BE DECEIVED. NEither the SEXUALLY IMMORAL(people who have affairs, mentioned in the example) nor idolators, nor adulterers(this was given in the example) nor prostitutes noir homo sexual offenders nor theives nor the greedy nor drunkards(given in the example quoted) nor slanderers nor swindlers WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
1 Cor 6:9&10

Red you are arguing against scripture in reality, not us.

But on the basis there is only one unfogiveable sin(as Christ stated) and you believe in the example given a person may well be in a saved state with those continuous sins for ten years after conversion, does this mean a saved person can continue to be a prostitute for ten years after conversion?

 

[wakeup]

Matthew 28: 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Jesus said that ALL authority has been given to Him. The word all means, All!

Matthew 16: 18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church ; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. This means that death cannot overcome Christ's church. The only power Satan has over anyone is death, caused by our own sins. Satan cannot touch Christ's church.

Romans 8: 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Once again, Satan cannot touch Christ's church, or remove anyone from it.

By the way, Jesus Christ has already defeated Satan!!

Christ's church is spiritual, and cannot be divided.

Matthew 12: 25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste ; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself ; how then will his kingdom stand ?

If Jesus Christ has all authority in heaven and earth, then His church can only be divided if He allows it. Jesus is not going to allow His church to be divided for the very reasons He Himself stated above!

Satan wants us to believe that Christ's church is divided so that we will believe the false prophets he sends into the world to deceive us. He wants us to look away from God's word found in the bible, and to search for other truths claimed by those who hate the bible, for it convicts them, and reveals their untruths to the world.

Do not believe it!

the holy spirit is the the bond amongst the true believers,the spirit of truth.john16:13.
this is the true church, and that does not mean that you have to belong to a group of people.could be a hundred in this country, five hundred in an other country and so on.
Jesus looks at the church inside a person, that has the truth.for example one can not be the true church if one prays to mary, or worship things made by mans hands(material)
the very special ones are they that follow the lamb where soever he goes.
''wakeup.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi EG

I cannot now remember Red's answer to myself and others in a debate. All the scriptures were put to Red from various people showing that repentance is essential for salvation/conversion but he adamantly refused to accept them. This is not a belief I personally have ever come accross before

Christ said. If you do not repent you will perish

Yes he did. One who does not repent could never come to Christ. maybe this is why he refuses to answer your question?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It has been answered and was rejected because the heart was filled with relevant righteousness and not with the wisdom of God's grace. If you can't see beyond relevant righteousness then you will never be able to comprehend and minister the grace of God when your understanding does not include the cross or the mercy of God. As a believer you should understand through grace that Christ came for sinners. If you see any man in sin and you have the mind of Christ, then you know that Christ came for that man and shed His blood for his sins. Being reconciled we should know that and be able to minister that same reconciliation to the sinner that was ministered to us when we were in sin.

Red your game is getting old. The question was not asked if the person could still come to repentance. Yes, we should come to this guy in love and continue to show him Gods love for him. But that was not the question. The question was is the guy saved, or could he be saved. Yet you refuse to answer. Why is this?

I have a question for you.

Is repentance essential for salvation, or could someone come to God and be given eternal life if they have never repented.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Red can try and evade answering the question directly, but it is ABSURD to suggest that for Ten years after a claimed conversion a person can constanlty/ceaselessly/continuously act as described in the example given and be in a saved state

It was put to Red that he beieved in a 'free Grace/easy believism. The person who commented on this stated that the grace he believed in must have more power than the grace Red believed in for the true grace he believed in would change a person after a true conversion and not let them remain in the state described

Spurgeon said it is Christ's responsibility to change us as we trust in him and we are sanctified by the spirit

What would this say for the power of the cross and faith in Christ if Red is right? The Gospel would be seen as impotent and lacking in power.

There would be no power at all. And All I would have to do is say a few words. not worry about giving up my life and giving it to God. and God would save me just because.

If one thinks about it. I would never have to believe in God. I could just take my chances and say that sinners prayer never believing what I said just in case that christian is right. and I get live my life the way i want it. and assure if I am wrong, and God is real, that I will still be saved because I spoke a few words.

 

[Red33]

Red your game is getting old. The question was not asked if the person could still come to repentance. Yes, we should come to this guy in love and continue to show him Gods love for him. But that was not the question. The question was is the guy saved, or could he be saved. Yet you refuse to answer. Why is this?

I have a question for you.

Is repentance essential for salvation, or could someone come to God and be given eternal life if they have never repented.

Which is greater, God's grace or man's repentance of sin? Your answer reveals where your heart is. Did Christ die and shed His blood that we would repent of sin or that we would believe and be forgiven and cleansed from all sin and have everlasting life?

Jn 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved . 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned : but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We are saved by grace through faith and not through repentance of sin (Eph 2:8,9). Jesus Christ was crucified and condemned sin in His own flesh on the cross. We believe by faith in what He has done on our behalf, we do not repent of sin to obtain it. We exercise faith to receive by grace that our sins have been put away through the sacrifice of Christ. If anything, we repent of our unbelief and believe the gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which is greater, God's grace or man's repentance of sin?

Who said anything about repenting of sin? Did I use the word sin? Repenting of sin is just one act of repentance that causes one to turn to Christ.

An unrepentant person is still dead in their sin. So I would think they are equal.

Your answer reveals where your heart is. Did Christ die and shed His blood that we would repent of sin or that we would believe and be forgiven and cleansed from all sin and have everlasting life?

Your answer shows where your heart is. You think one can believe in God without repenting? A person who has not repented does not believe he is a sinner, or in need of a savior, or that Christ is the only way to eternal life.

Jn 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved . 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned : but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We are saved by grace through faith and not through repentance of sin (Eph 2:8,9). Jesus Christ was crucified and condemned sin in His own flesh on the cross. We believe by faith in what He has done on our behalf, we do not repent of sin to obtain it. We exercise faith to receive by grace that our sins have been put away through the sacrifice of Christ. If anything, we repent of our unbelief and believe the gospel.

Repent means to change our mind. To have a change of heart. One can not believe in john 3: 16 if they have not repented.

 

[livingbygrace]

Which is greater, God's grace or man's repentance of sin? Your answer reveals where your heart is. Did Christ die and shed His blood that we would repent of sin or that we would believe and be forgiven and cleansed from all sin and have everlasting life?

Jn 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved . 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned : but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We are saved by grace through faith and not through repentance of sin (Eph 2:8,9). Jesus Christ was crucified and condemned sin in His own flesh on the cross. We believe by faith in what He has done on our behalf, we do not repent of sin to obtain it. We exercise faith to receive by grace that our sins have been put away through the sacrifice of Christ. If anything, we repent of our unbelief and believe the gospel.

Do you think that these Gallileans were worse sinners than all other Gallileans because they suffered this way? I tell you no, but unless you repent you too will perish
Luke 13:3

Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is near

Matt 3:2

Repent and be baptised every one of you FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS(note not for your unbelief)
Acts 2:38

I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds
Acts 26:20

Repent, then, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out
Acts 3:19

Christ, John the Baptist, Paul and Peter are all clear on this issue, we must repent

 

[VW]

LGB, and EG, this deception is deep, and very strong. I was trapped in this deception for many years, and I know many who are now trapped the same way. They have made grace to be forgiveness of sins, but it is not.

Are our sins forgiven? Yes, in Christ there is now no condemnation for those who are in Him. But that phrase "in Him" is grace itself. Is there any sin in Him? Heaven forbid.

What happens is that one places absolute believe in the confession salvation," I have confessed and I have believed, therefore I shall be saved." What they cannot see is that God is absolutely righteous and holy and pure. He will not have children who are subject to sin. Jesus died for us, and we died with Him! we are no longer as we were, but we are now risen by God in His resurrection life.

Am I perfect? Not in this flesh! But in the spirit I am perfect, because I am born of God. And being born of God, I do not stay estranged from Him, but enter into fellowship with Him.

Repentance is more than just being sorry. When we see our lives as they are in this world, through God's eyes, by His light, then we can either repent in abject abhorrence of what we are in this world, or we can turn our backs on the truth, and on God, and continue to remain the same. If we see the truth, we will die with Jesus to our sinful life, to the very nature of our life, to be raised with Him to newness of life, which life is lived exclusively for God's pleasure.

Once one turns their back, it is very difficult to turn back to the light.

And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men hated the light, because their deeds were evil.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you think that these Gallileans were worse sinners than all other Gallileans because they suffered this way? I tell you no, but unless you repent you too will perish
Luke 13:3

Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is near

Matt 3:2

Repent and be baptised every one of you FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS(note not for your unbelief)
Acts 2:38

I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds
Acts 26:20

Repent, then, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out
Acts 3:19

Christ, John the Baptist, Paul and Peter are all clear on this issue, we must repent

Even more;

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Mark 1:15
and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Luke 24:47
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”


2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

I think scripture is clear. Repentance and faith go hand in hand. One can not have faith without repentance. Nor can one have salvation without repentance.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LGB, and EG, this deception is deep, and very strong. I was trapped in this deception for many years, and I know many who are now trapped the same way. They have made grace to be forgiveness of sins, but it is not.

So Paul lied when he said we are saved (forgiven) By (via) Grace? That we are justified (declared innocent) via Grace. If forgiveness of sin is not by Grace, then it must only come as a reward. Which is it?

Are our sins forgiven? Yes, in Christ there is now no condemnation for those who are in Him. But that phrase "in Him" is grace itself. Is there any sin in Him? Heaven forbid.

Yes, "In Him" is grace itself. For not one man deserves to be in him. So it is by grace that we are in him. Otherwise we have earned it? How can one ever deserve to be "in him?"

What happens is that one places absolute believe in the confession salvation," I have confessed and I have believed, therefore I shall be saved." What they cannot see is that God is absolutely righteous and holy and pure. He will not have children who are subject to sin. Jesus died for us, and we died with Him! we are no longer as we were, but we are now risen by God in His resurrection life.

And the only reason you have this is by the Grace of God. For you do not deserve to have any of this. To think you ever deserved this is dangerous!

[/quote]Am I perfect? Not in this flesh! But in the spirit I am perfect, because I am born of God. And being born of God, I do not stay estranged from Him, but enter into fellowship with Him. [/quote]

You will never be perfect your right. Which is why your salvation is maintained by Gods grace. for if Gods grace ever stopped, you would again fall into condemnation, for you will never earn eternal life, or the right to be called children of God.

Repentance is more than just being sorry.

AMEN, I do not know where this false believe of repentance means feel sorry for. It means change ones mind.

When we see our lives as they are in this world, through God's eyes, by His light, then we can either repent in abject abhorrence of what we are in this world, or we can turn our backs on the truth, and on God, and continue to remain the same. If we see the truth, we will die with Jesus to our sinful life, to the very nature of our life, to be raised with Him to newness of life, which life is lived exclusively for God's pleasure.

Yes but we will still sin. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and truth is not in us. Which is why we need continued Grace in order to remain children of God. we will never earn the right to be saved, ever!

Once one turns their back, it is very difficult to turn back to the light.

Actually I have turned my back. It was quite easy after the chastening of God and the realization that My life has progressed seriously downhill since I left God and became a prodigal son. All it took was a realization that I needed God. which is what chastisement brings. Now, for those who are illegitimate and not sons, who do not recieve the chastening of the lord. Your right. it is very hard, if not impossible to find your way back to God and be given the change to actually make a step of faith and recieve him as your savior. But God still gives grace even to them, as he is willing that NONE should parish but receive forgiveness.

And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men hated the light, because their deeds were evil.

Yes, Why one has to repent to come to God. and recieve the gift he offers us all (forgiveness of sin) because of Gods grace.

I am not sure what you believed before where you said you were deceived. There are many false doctrines out there. Maybe it was another one of them? But the fact remains. We are saved either by grace or by works. There are no other ways to salvation. And scripture makes it clear works will never save anyone, so if your not teaching forgiveness is by grace, I fear you are teaching salvation comes via works.

 

[livingbygrace]

VW Good post
EG I agree, salvation is not possible without repentance, the Bible is clear on this

I believe you have many churches who in effect have a law/being good enough based Gospel

A person is accepted by repentance and faith in Christ, but then in effect in many fundamentalist/born again churches you are given a certain amountr of time to 'shape up' or your salvation is called into question. If a person believes this in their heart they in effect have a Christianity based on law keeping. For the only way we can know how we should live as a Christian is by God's good laws/Christ's commandments. And to the convert their continued Christianity in effect hinges on the law. So most of the time they see little victory in their lives.

At the other extreme you have 'free grace/easy believism where it does not matter how you act you are in a saved state. This is very dangerous to promote for many will inevitably turn to a form of Christianity where the mentality is 'anything goes' but I am saved. A true licence to sin
And I am sure the people Jude refered to would have said the same things Red is now

And then you have the 'true narrow road'

When in their heart a person knows they are saved AND KEPT by faith in Christ. When the know in their heart God has accepted them into his family soley by faith in his son and they are secure in that family without having to be 'good enough'(always in effect law keeping). When they know they are seen as perfect in God's sight even while they are being made Holy for God sees them as perfect even while they are sinners because he only sees what Christ did for them on the cross.
When they know all of this they have a security and true gratitude and love of God in their hearts, and it is in this truth of the true Gospel of grace that sin will not be their master
For they are not under law but under grace
Rom 6:14

And upon a sincere and I emphasise the word soncere conversion the individual MUST see victory over sin in their life. It is impossible to believe anything else according to the true Gospel of Grace

Because a person is not under law sin will not be their master, Paul is clear on this

So the idea that you could have a person living in grace under a sincere conversion and for the next ten years constantly/ceaselessly getting drunk, having affairs, beating their wife and never reading a Bible is completely contrary to the true message and I believe denies the power of the cross and the true message of grace.

In fact it belittles ther victory Christ died for.

I do not mean this unkindly but Red seems to have a 'head theology' on many issues but not a heartfelt understanding of the true Gospel

 

[Red33]

Even more;

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Mark 1:15
and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Luke 24:47
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”


2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

I think scripture is clear. Repentance and faith go hand in hand. One can not have faith without repentance. Nor can one have salvation without repentance.

I'll play this game for a little while with you three stooges. You all are making this claim about repentance and quote all these verses, but do you know what they really are talking about? You define repentance as a change of mind (metanoia). A change of mind about what? What are these scriptures you quote referring to concerning repentance? Take (Acts 1:18), what is being referred to in this verse for the Gentiles being granted repentance unto life. If you are going to use a verse to explain what you believe, don't just quote a verse, explain it.

What is Peter referring to in (2Pt 3:9) when all men should come to repentance. What does it mean to come to repentance, come to what kind of repentance, who is this applied to and how should it be applied to the believer or the sinner? You three stooges seem to be spiritual giants on this site, let's hear what you three have to say about repentance. Come on know it alls, if these scriptures are as plain as you seem to think, then what do they mean? This is a three on one match and you should have no problem putting me in my place. Let it rip and show just what kind of professing Christian I really am. If you can not put up then you will have to shut up by humbling yourselves under the mighty hand of God.

Remember you can't consult any text books from scholars or theologians or any commentaries that use their service and no language experts because you do not believe them and have told us you do not need them. Your answers must come from the Spirit just based upon the plain truth of the scriptures. I can use any resource I want because I appreciate what they contribute and learn much when consulting them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'll play this game for a little while with you three stooges.

Yeah, I think Christianity is a game to you. I see it every time you respond to anything.

Remember you can't consult any text books from scholars or theologians or any commentaries that use their service and no language experts because you do not believe them and have told us you do not need them. Your answers must come from the Spirit just based upon the plain truth of the scriptures. I can use any resource I want because I appreciate what they contribute and learn much when consulting them.

You just proved you do not know me at all. Can you show where I have said we should not use these things.

We can play games if you want. Tag your it. prove I have said this.

Then riddle me this. How can a person who by his or her nature is an enemy of God and totally against him come to believe in him without heaving a change of heart from the aforementioned attitude. This thing called "repentance"