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Is Christ's church divided?
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Who would need a textbook to answer this
The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and draws us to Christ.
We see with our eyes open the true extent of our sinfulness and wretchedness before God(if we have been truly convicted by the Spirit) and we come to God in repentance of the sinful life we have committed and ask for forgiveness
I will tell you how I was affected
I was walking down the street one day. I hadn't cried in years, but I sobbed my heart out, convicted of the life I had led and the sinfulness of my actions. I cried out to God to forgive me it was instinctive under the conviction of the Spirit.
Repent then AND TURN TO GOD so that your sins may be wiped out
Acts 3:19
This verse alone is speaking of repentance concerning turning to God
The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and draws us to Christ.
We see with our eyes open the true extent of our sinfulness and wretchedness before God(if we have been truly convicted by the Spirit) and we come to God in repentance of the sinful life we have committed and ask for forgiveness
I will tell you how I was affected
I was walking down the street one day. I hadn't cried in years, but I sobbed my heart out, convicted of the life I had led and the sinfulness of my actions. I cried out to God to forgive me it was instinctive under the conviction of the Spirit.
Repent then AND TURN TO GOD so that your sins may be wiped out
Acts 3:19
This verse alone is speaking of repentance concerning turning to God
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Am I perfect? Not in this flesh! But in the spirit I am perfect, because I am born of God. And being born of God, I do not stay estranged from Him, but enter into fellowship with Him. [/quote]
You will never be perfect your right. Which is why your salvation is maintained by Gods grace. for if Gods grace ever stopped, you would again fall into condemnation, for you will never earn eternal life, or the right to be called children of God.
AMEN, I do not know where this false believe of repentance means feel sorry for. It means change ones mind.
Yes but we will still sin. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and truth is not in us. Which is why we need continued Grace in order to remain children of God. we will never earn the right to be saved, ever!
Actually I have turned my back. It was quite easy after the chastening of God and the realization that My life has progressed seriously downhill since I left God and became a prodigal son. All it took was a realization that I needed God. which is what chastisement brings. Now, for those who are illegitimate and not sons, who do not recieve the chastening of the lord. Your right. it is very hard, if not impossible to find your way back to God and be given the change to actually make a step of faith and recieve him as your savior. But God still gives grace even to them, as he is willing that NONE should parish but receive forgiveness.
Yes, Why one has to repent to come to God. and recieve the gift he offers us all (forgiveness of sin) because of Gods grace.
I am not sure what you believed before where you said you were deceived. There are many false doctrines out there. Maybe it was another one of them? But the fact remains. We are saved either by grace or by works. There are no other ways to salvation. And scripture makes it clear works will never save anyone, so if your not teaching forgiveness is by grace, I fear you are teaching salvation comes via works.
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You are not hearing what I am saying. Forgiveness is sins is what allows grace.
Read the thread I started on what, (or who) grace is.
You will never be perfect your right. Which is why your salvation is maintained by Gods grace. for if Gods grace ever stopped, you would again fall into condemnation, for you will never earn eternal life, or the right to be called children of God.
AMEN, I do not know where this false believe of repentance means feel sorry for. It means change ones mind.
Yes but we will still sin. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and truth is not in us. Which is why we need continued Grace in order to remain children of God. we will never earn the right to be saved, ever!
Actually I have turned my back. It was quite easy after the chastening of God and the realization that My life has progressed seriously downhill since I left God and became a prodigal son. All it took was a realization that I needed God. which is what chastisement brings. Now, for those who are illegitimate and not sons, who do not recieve the chastening of the lord. Your right. it is very hard, if not impossible to find your way back to God and be given the change to actually make a step of faith and recieve him as your savior. But God still gives grace even to them, as he is willing that NONE should parish but receive forgiveness.
Yes, Why one has to repent to come to God. and recieve the gift he offers us all (forgiveness of sin) because of Gods grace.
I am not sure what you believed before where you said you were deceived. There are many false doctrines out there. Maybe it was another one of them? But the fact remains. We are saved either by grace or by works. There are no other ways to salvation. And scripture makes it clear works will never save anyone, so if your not teaching forgiveness is by grace, I fear you are teaching salvation comes via works.
[/quote]
You are not hearing what I am saying. Forgiveness is sins is what allows grace.
Read the thread I started on what, (or who) grace is.
When, pray tell, have you humbled yourself under the might hand of God?
So you want to know what repentance is, do you?
The fact is that when we see that we are the cause of the death of Jesus, by our very lives, and how we lived them, and when we see that this death is solely on our heads, and accept this fact from God; we can either repent and seek His life, or we can remain the same. We cannot change ourselves. Self cannot cast out self.
So you want to know what repentance is, do you?
The fact is that when we see that we are the cause of the death of Jesus, by our very lives, and how we lived them, and when we see that this death is solely on our heads, and accept this fact from God; we can either repent and seek His life, or we can remain the same. We cannot change ourselves. Self cannot cast out self.
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Well then you have it backwards. Grace is what allows forgiveness of sin. If we did not have sin, we would not need grace. It is because of sin that we need grace. and it is only because of gods grace that we can have forgiveness of sin. And only because of Gods continued grace that we do not lose salvation everytime we sin and need to be re-saved.
Well, one of us has it backwards.
God convinces us that His salvation in Jesus Christ is true, and that Jesus is truly risen from the dead. This is the beginning of grace. He first comes to us. But for us to continue in grace, we are forgiven our sins by the sacrifice of Jesus.
If you do not understand that grace and forgiveness of sins are different aspects of God's overall work towards our salvation, then you are also in danger of the same error as Red.
Grace is God in our lives, and our being drawn into His life.
God convinces us that His salvation in Jesus Christ is true, and that Jesus is truly risen from the dead. This is the beginning of grace. He first comes to us. But for us to continue in grace, we are forgiven our sins by the sacrifice of Jesus.
If you do not understand that grace and forgiveness of sins are different aspects of God's overall work towards our salvation, then you are also in danger of the same error as Red.
Grace is God in our lives, and our being drawn into His life.
When we hear the gospel or when the light of the glorious gospel shines unto us, we believe and God changes the heart through grace. He actually grants us repentance. When we are His enemy, God draws us, shines His light unto us, gives us faith through His word concerning His Son, we agree and believe. All of this goodness that we receive from God's grace through the gospel leads us to a place of repentance where we change our minds about certians things in our life that fall short of the glory of God. God does this little by little as we grow in grace and knowledge of Him.
The entire point of grace, of forgiveness of our sins, is that we draw near to God through Jesus Christ. And that my friend, is the crux of the matter, and is what is wrong with Red's theology. He puts off meeting God until the rapture, or the resurrection. But if we put off this meeting, we will not like the way it goes when it does happen.
If we are in God, now, then we will not be ashamed with Jesus appears. The opposite is also true.
Can I say that one who does not draw near to God, who uses His word and the excuse of His grace, (which is not grace at all, because they never draw near to Him, but is aborted grace,) is not saved? No, but I know from experience that I would not want to be such a one, and I do what He allows to see that this truth of this disaster is shown clearly.
If we are in God, now, then we will not be ashamed with Jesus appears. The opposite is also true.
Can I say that one who does not draw near to God, who uses His word and the excuse of His grace, (which is not grace at all, because they never draw near to Him, but is aborted grace,) is not saved? No, but I know from experience that I would not want to be such a one, and I do what He allows to see that this truth of this disaster is shown clearly.
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We agree because we have repented. Yes God grants us repentance. we do not deserve it. it is only by Grace that we even have the opportunity to repent. It is our changed heart which allows us to have faith in God and trust him.
This is a different type of repentance and only occurs after we are saved by our initial repentance. And leads us to sanctification. But this was not the questions I asked.
This is a different type of repentance and only occurs after we are saved by our initial repentance. And leads us to sanctification. But this was not the questions I asked.
See, there you go equating grace with forgiveness.
Look at the new covenant, and see that forgiveness and grace are part of this agreement that God has made with Himself in our behalf. Everyone shall know Me, from the least to the greatest. This is grace. I will remember their sins no more. This is even more than forgiveness, because forgiveness does not have to forget, but God chooses not to remember our sins and iniquities.
Grace is summed up in this
Hence, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, because He always lives to make intercession for them.
Look at the new covenant, and see that forgiveness and grace are part of this agreement that God has made with Himself in our behalf. Everyone shall know Me, from the least to the greatest. This is grace. I will remember their sins no more. This is even more than forgiveness, because forgiveness does not have to forget, but God chooses not to remember our sins and iniquities.
Grace is summed up in this
Hence, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, because He always lives to make intercession for them.
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well yes I do. I have to. One can not happen without the other. If you think it can, you do not understand grace!
True forgiveness forgets. False forgiveness remembers. True forgiveness comes from Grace. because it is not deserved.
The reason he always makes intercession and eternal forgiveness is grace. Without grace, there can be no forgiveness. for then forgiveness would have to be earned.
True forgiveness forgets. False forgiveness remembers. True forgiveness comes from Grace. because it is not deserved.
The reason he always makes intercession and eternal forgiveness is grace. Without grace, there can be no forgiveness. for then forgiveness would have to be earned.
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i was listening to a book about tough love and it talked about truly evil people and how they enjoyed doing evil and belittling people and the author told us about setting boundaries with love, how you can still love the person but because of the love take yourself out of a situation that would allow the person to abuse or hurt you.
He talked about people who were evil and how you could tell that God had placed the seed of grace in their life. they showed repentance and confessed all the evil things they did to other people. they had a heart that was sorrowful because they did those things without regret until God worked in their lives and showed them a better way and showed them what love really means.
therefore, I believe we should always pray and hope that people will change and that God can change anyone, but while we wait we should protect ourselves and our brethren and our children from people who God is working on to accept His grace.
Its just common sense which the Bible says is a treasure of an honest man.
He talked about people who were evil and how you could tell that God had placed the seed of grace in their life. they showed repentance and confessed all the evil things they did to other people. they had a heart that was sorrowful because they did those things without regret until God worked in their lives and showed them a better way and showed them what love really means.
therefore, I believe we should always pray and hope that people will change and that God can change anyone, but while we wait we should protect ourselves and our brethren and our children from people who God is working on to accept His grace.
Its just common sense which the Bible says is a treasure of an honest man.
No, we cannot separate grace and forgiveness, because they are both from God and both are in Jesus Christ. That does not make them the same. Even your words show that they are different. "You cannot have one without the other." This in no way makes them the same.
There is real danger in this view. I know that you do not believe me now, but pray about it first, please?
There is real danger in this view. I know that you do not believe me now, but pray about it first, please?