THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY
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Hello @Sudakar, I'm not sure what happened with the formatting while I was rushing to meet the 5 minute editing deadline in post #214 above. Sorry about that.
The good news is, I believe that the entire quote is there, even if it looks a little "off" due to the formatting (you are, of course, welcome to see the entire quote at Dr. MacArthur's website. The link I left to it in the same post will take you right there
).
~Deut
The good news is, I believe that the entire quote is there, even if it looks a little "off" due to the formatting (you are, of course, welcome to see the entire quote at Dr. MacArthur's website. The link I left to it in the same post will take you right there
).~Deut
Hello Guojing, St. James speaks of two different ~kinds~ of faith in the second chapter of his Epistle, 1. a lively/saving faith that RESULTS in all of the things that ACCOMPANY salvation and 2. a dead faith that ~results~ in nothing.
Here are just some of the many things that result from our being saved and made "His workmanship", good works, obedience, and our desire and choice to live a holy (rather than sinful) lifestyle. The things that accompany salvation do not save us (nor do they maintain our salvation), rather, they are fruit of our salvation, as well a justification of who/what we say we have become .. James 2:24, as the things that accompany our salvation demonstrate (to ourselves and to others .. 2 Corinthians 13:5) that we are who we say we are/now claim to be, a believer.
So, what we do/say (and even how we think) tells us (and others) who we really are! Therefore, if someone who claims to be a Christian never changes, or quickly returns to living the kind of sinful lifestyle that they were living prior to making that claim, then chances are more than just good that they are 'not' who they say they are (and perhaps even believe themselves to be .. cf Matthew 7:22-23), and their ~claim~ of being "in Christ" should be regarded as nothing more than that.
As St. James says (no doubt tongue in cheek),
~Deut
Here are just some of the many things that result from our being saved and made "His workmanship", good works, obedience, and our desire and choice to live a holy (rather than sinful) lifestyle. The things that accompany salvation do not save us (nor do they maintain our salvation), rather, they are fruit of our salvation, as well a justification of who/what we say we have become .. James 2:24, as the things that accompany our salvation demonstrate (to ourselves and to others .. 2 Corinthians 13:5) that we are who we say we are/now claim to be, a believer.
So, what we do/say (and even how we think) tells us (and others) who we really are! Therefore, if someone who claims to be a Christian never changes, or quickly returns to living the kind of sinful lifestyle that they were living prior to making that claim, then chances are more than just good that they are 'not' who they say they are (and perhaps even believe themselves to be .. cf Matthew 7:22-23), and their ~claim~ of being "in Christ" should be regarded as nothing more than that.
As St. James says (no doubt tongue in cheek),
James 2
18 Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
~Deut
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The problem with all these explanations, is that they are trying to help James explain to others what he "really" meant.
If James did not mean what he said, why don't he just say what he meant?
Why not just accept what he is literally saying, that faith without works will not save anyone?
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If James did not mean what he said, why don't he just say what he meant?
Why not just accept what he is literally saying, that faith without works will not save anyone?
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Yes (though I am now part of the Evangelical Free Church of America). Considering the quotes that I see in your signature line, I'm guessing that you do not have a problem with that (being Reformed, that is).
~Deut
(being Reformed, that is).~Deut
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Hello again Guojing, I believe that a proper understanding of what is written in the Bible often requires that we take a deeper look, one that goes beyond our 'first blush' impressions of a verse or passage, to have any hope of arriving at the Lord's intended meaning. This should not be surprising considering that great number of human authors that He chose to use, their varied situations in life and POV's, that they wrote what they did more than two millennia ago, as well a number of other factors.
That said, I believe exactly what you do, that faith w/o works will not save anyone, but that does 'not' mean that our works have anything to do with our salvation (other than demonstrating to us that it is real/that we are really and truly saved), as Jesus, Paul, Peter and others make plain to us in many other passages.
Surely you'd agree that a proper exegesis of a passage must not directly contradict what is taught (in other places) in the Bible
Perhaps this will be helpful (it's a quote from Calvin, and just FYI, Luther taught the exact same principle using slightly different words),
The fact of the matter is, if the word δικαιόω (translated as "justified" in our Bibles) carries the same meaning in St. James' Epistle as it does in many/most places in the Pauline Epistles, then we have a big problem, because that would mean that the Bible contradicts itself. The good news is, 1. words have more than one meaning, and 2. I believe St. James makes his meaning clear (by what he wrote in Chapter two prior to v24 .. cf v18).
~Deut
That said, I believe exactly what you do, that faith w/o works will not save anyone, but that does 'not' mean that our works have anything to do with our salvation (other than demonstrating to us that it is real/that we are really and truly saved), as Jesus, Paul, Peter and others make plain to us in many other passages.
Surely you'd agree that a proper exegesis of a passage must not directly contradict what is taught (in other places) in the Bible
Perhaps this will be helpful (it's a quote from Calvin, and just FYI, Luther taught the exact same principle using slightly different words),
"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone"
The fact of the matter is, if the word δικαιόω (translated as "justified" in our Bibles) carries the same meaning in St. James' Epistle as it does in many/most places in the Pauline Epistles, then we have a big problem, because that would mean that the Bible contradicts itself. The good news is, 1. words have more than one meaning, and 2. I believe St. James makes his meaning clear (by what he wrote in Chapter two prior to v24 .. cf v18).
~Deut
Hello again Guojing, I believe that a proper understanding of what is written in the Bible often requires that we take a deeper look, one that goes beyond our 'first blush' impressions of a verse or passage, to have any hope of arriving at the Lord's intended meaning. This should not be surprising considering that great number of human authors that He chose to use, their varied situations in life and POV's, that they wrote what they did more than two millennia ago, as well a number of other factors.
That said, I believe exactly what you do, that faith w/o works will not save anyone, but that does 'not' mean that our works have anything to do with our salvation (other than demonstrating to us that it is real/that we are really and truly saved), as Jesus, Paul, Peter and others make plain to us in many other passages.
Surely you'd agree that a proper exegesis of a passage must not directly contradict what is taught (in other places) in the Bible
Perhaps this will be helpful (it's a quote from Calvin, and just FYI, Luther taught the exact same principle using slightly different words),
The fact of the matter is, if the word δικαιόω (translated as "justified" in our Bibles) carries the same meaning in St. James' Epistle as it does in many/most places in the Pauline Epistles, then we have a big problem, because that would mean that the Bible contradicts itself. The good news is, 1. words have more than one meaning, and 2. I believe St. James makes his meaning clear (by what he wrote in Chapter two prior to v24 .. cf v18).
~Deut
That said, I believe exactly what you do, that faith w/o works will not save anyone, but that does 'not' mean that our works have anything to do with our salvation (other than demonstrating to us that it is real/that we are really and truly saved), as Jesus, Paul, Peter and others make plain to us in many other passages.
Surely you'd agree that a proper exegesis of a passage must not directly contradict what is taught (in other places) in the Bible
Perhaps this will be helpful (it's a quote from Calvin, and just FYI, Luther taught the exact same principle using slightly different words),
"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone"
The fact of the matter is, if the word δικαιόω (translated as "justified" in our Bibles) carries the same meaning in St. James' Epistle as it does in many/most places in the Pauline Epistles, then we have a big problem, because that would mean that the Bible contradicts itself. The good news is, 1. words have more than one meaning, and 2. I believe St. James makes his meaning clear (by what he wrote in Chapter two prior to v24 .. cf v18).
~Deut
I think many people assumed that, just because James was placed after Paul's letters, that James must have read and understood everything Paul said, before writing his letters to the 12 tribes.
There is no worry of any contradiction to me. James was writing to the Jews and he was preaching the gospel of the cicumcision to them, that they needed works together with their faith.
The ascended Christ never told any of them, including James, that the Law of Moses was no longer required from the Jews.
