THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Pardon my interruption of your conversation with sack cloth but both of you are right
it is true faith without works is dead but works without faith is also dead they are both intertwined and cannot be with out the other no matter which one is in front of the other

He’s mixed up. He has James and Paul both preaching different gospels. He’s some sort of messed up dispensationalist.

 

[Guojing]

I’ve told you over and over works are not necessary for salvation. K?

and yet you believe faith without works is dead? You are contradicting yourself.

 

[Sudakar]

Hebrews 7:19
[19] For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did ; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

The hope I rejoice in makes me perfect.

So your perfection is by imputation of grace and not by your works.

 

[Sudakar]

and yet you believe faith without works is dead? You are contradicting yourself.

Good question. Saying works not required for salvation but required to prove one has faith which has saved is a contradiction. Why? Because at the end of it, it is works which determine whether one is saved or not.

 

[Sudakar]

He’s mixed up. He has James and Paul both preaching different gospels. He’s some sort of messed up dispensationalist.

Saying works not required for salvation but required to prove one has faith which has saved is a contradiction. Why? Because at the end of it, it is works which determine whether one is saved or not.

 

[Sudakar]

Umm I'm sorry what? even none christians hate to sin stive to do good works and forgive better? no offense but do you watch the news? I will admit that Christians can be worse than nonchristians but they all vary but I'm sorry no people love sin they love to get wasted do drugs have tons of sex they don't give a flying dove who they hurt or how they are judged they live by yolo

I totally disagree.

 

[Sudakar]

Ahh, I was more making a point in the latter part of the sentence, small miss-quote at the first. While works don't save, a Christian will do good works.

How much works will a christian do?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

and yet you believe faith without works is dead? You are contradicting yourself.

Nope.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Saying works not required for salvation but required to prove one has faith which has saved is a contradiction. Why? Because at the end of it, it is works which determine whether one is saved or not.

Nope.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

How much works will a christian do?

How little works must a Christian do? Is it okay for Christian to not do any at all?

 

[Sudakar]

Bingo! We do them, not because we are trying to earn favor, but because we love to do them.

But lordship Salvationists say "Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93)". That is, they say works not faith alone saves.

 

[Guojing]

Saying works not required for salvation but required to prove one has faith which has saved is a contradiction. Why? Because at the end of it, it is works which determine whether one is saved or not.

When you want to dance around the literal meaning of scripture, that is what will usually happen.

The worse outcome is that you cannot even see that you are contradicting yourself.

 

[Sudakar]

Bingo! We do them, not because we are trying to earn favor, but because we love to do them.

Don't you do evil?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

But lordship Salvationists say "Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93)". That is, they say works not faith alone saves.

So, can a true believer live in rebellion to God and thumb their nose at Him?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Don't you do evil?

I sin. But that sin has been atoned for. I’m not sinless.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

When you want to dance around the literal meaning of scripture, that is what will usually happen.

The worse outcome is that you cannot even see that you are contradicting yourself.

Nope.

 

[Sudakar]

Good works don't save, but a true Christian will have them. I doubt that non Christians hate sin when they don't even understand what it is. They may try to live by a moral code, but hate sin, no.

I know non christians who hate to sin, feel guilty and visit temples to be freed from guilt.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

When you want to dance around the literal meaning of scripture, that is what will usually happen.

The worse outcome is that you cannot even see that you are contradicting yourself.

Oh my. You’re on here preaching that James and Paul are preaching two different gospels and I’m the one contradicting myself. Bruh, you haven’t a clue.

 

[Guojing]

Oh my. You’re on here preaching that James and Paul are preaching two different gospels and I’m the one contradicting myself. Bruh, you haven’t a clue.

I take what the scripture says literally. (Galatians 2:7-9)

 

[Sudakar]

Exactly! We do them out of love for the Lord. Some people go the entire other way and say works don't save so they don't even bother. Like tell the church people on Sunday that you're cleaning the church and the yard and see how many show up. It can go too far in either direction.

Does a christian's love for the Lord enable him to obey Mathew 5:48? If not, why?