Are you a Romans 7 man or a Romans 8 man?

[Lion222]

Are you really a Romans 7 wretched man?
Are you a prisoner of the law of sin and its slave? Ro 7:23
is the doing of the good not present in you only the wanting?
Are you stuck in that wretched state of man walking according to the flesh?
Does your being stuck in sin cause you fear death and judgement?

Are you really a Romans 8 overwhelmingly conquering man?
Are you freed from the law of sin by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?
is the requirement of the Law being fulfilled in you?
Do you no longer walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit?
Does your living by the Spirit and putting to death the deeds of the body result in life and peace in the face of death and judgement?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Are you really a Romans 7 wretched man?
Are you a prisoner of the law of sin and its slave? Ro 7:23
is the doing of the good not present in you only the wanting?
Are you stuck in that wretched state of man walking according to the flesh?
Does your being stuck in sin cause you fear death and judgement?

Are you really a Romans 8 overwhelmingly conquering man?
Are you freed from the law of sin by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?
is the requirement of the Law being fulfilled in you?
Do you no longer walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit?
Does your living by the Spirit and putting to death the deeds of the body result in life and peace in the face of death and judgement?

Lion222, Let me ask you the same question; Do you no longer walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit? If your answer is "YES", then you are deceiving yourself, and the truth is not in you, 1 John 1:8.

 

[Lion222]

Lion222, Let me ask you the same question; Do you no longer walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit? If your answer is "YES", then you are deceiving yourself, and the truth is not in you, 1 John 1:8.

Is a miss translation

 

[Mii]

I am curious if anyone thinks the two are simultaneously at odds with each other and you have to discern the difference and walk accordingly.

I think I've seen some say that this is pre-conversion in Romans 7 and converted in Romans 8 but contextually that doesn't make sense to me. Any thoughts?

 

[Lion222]

What doesnt make sense?
You need to understand the beginning of Romans was speaking to the Jews in Rome.
Paul is not saying he is a slave to sin. He is layout out for the Jewish people the work of the law in our hearts.
To increase sin to make it worse so we would see our wretched condition and say Thanks be to God for what the law could not do Christ did making us those who walk according to the Spirit.
It was never intended to be representative of the state of true believers but rather of man under law wanting to do good but unable because he is a slave to sin. We are slaves to righteousness.

 

[Duskey]

I’m Genesis 1.1 ~ Revelation 22:21 which includes all my faults and God’s sufficient grace.

 

[tourist]

I’m Genesis 1.1 ~ Revelation 22:21 which includes all my faults and God’s sufficient grace.

God's grace is sufficient for me too.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Romans 8.

Romans 7 men should strive with sin and destroy their flesh by the Spirit to attain to being a Romans 8 man.

 

[posthuman]

@Lion222
@Micaiah-imla

there is no "Romans 7 vs. Romans 8"

if you think so you have not understood what you have read.

Romans 8 s because of Romans 7. Romans 7 is because of Romans 6. because of Romans 5, Because of Romans 1-4.

 

[posthuman]

You need to understand the beginning of Romans was speaking to the Jews in Rome.

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Romans 1:7)

 

[crossnote]

BOTH.
(deal with it.)

 

[Micaiah-imla]

there is no "Romans 7 vs. Romans 8"

if you think so you have not understood what you have read.

We (and others no doubt) are not going to see eye to eye on this.

Accusing each other of "not understanding" the scripture ain't going to get us anywhere.

So I'll leave it here.

 

[Lion222]

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Romans 1:7)

Sorry he does not start addressing those who call themselves Jews until Romans 2:17
He is sharing the Gospel as a jew from a Jewish perspective from the perspective as coming to Christ and the Cross from under the law.

But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God 18and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; 19and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself?

 

[posthuman]

We (and others no doubt) are not going to see eye to eye on this.

Accusing each other of "not understanding" the scripture ain't going to get us anywhere.

So I'll leave it here.

The scripture isn't set against itself.
If anyone thinks it is, I am fully justified in pointing out that they lack understanding.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

The scripture isn't set against itself.
If anyone thinks it is, I am fully justified in pointing out that they lack understanding.

Is it even slightly possible you might be wrong?

I could be mistaken; which is why I continue reading the holy scriptures frequently to seek correction on a constant basis (keeping in mind what people on these boards say).

So far my take on Roman 7 and Romans 8 (silly because there really isn't chapter numbers in scripture) has not been proven in error by scripture and prayer so far in 12 years.

 

[Lion222]

Is it even slightly possible you might be wrong?

I could be mistaken; which is why I continue reading the holy scriptures frequently to seek correction on a constant basis (keeping in mind what people on these boards say).

So far my take on Roman 7 and Romans 8 (silly because there really isn't chapter numbers in scripture) has not been proven in error by scripture and prayer so far in 12 years.

Mine was!
One of the hardest things to get past are the spiritual strongholds of what one learns to be the truth of God but is in fact a lie of Satan.

It is not like you can cause someone to see. They have to start looking.
You can only present the truth from the scriptures and if they catch a glimpse of what might be gods word from another perspective they have not see then perhaps they might take it to God looking to see if something different then what they think they know is going on.

 

[Mii]

We (and others no doubt) are not going to see eye to eye on this.

Accusing each other of "not understanding" the scripture ain't going to get us anywhere.

So I'll leave it here.

See this is where it gets frustrating for me. I seek consensus and agreement in the body...if I take that approach I am saying that we aren't ever going to be in one accord until Jesus returns. I suppose that is a possibility but my mind/heart are NOT made up that this will necessarily be the case and ideally that is not true (although major on the majors catchphrase may be relevant). This seems major frankly.

It is also difficult for me to believe that Romans 7 doesn't apply when one is born again because I still battle my flesh daily and crucifying it daily is my goal although some days (like today) I'm a bit lukewarm about that "wrestling" due to exhaustion and rather than allow the accusations to gain audience I'm just focusing on abiding and A.S.K (ask seek knock)

It could be there is an "other side" of this dichotomy but it is difficult to understand how that could be a full reality without a glorified body. Thoughts? My goal is not to stir up dissention or draw out a response "just to see what you'd say" kind of thing...this is something that is unclear to me and doesn't make sense when people talk about the old man being dead as if the flesh is a non-issue. It is most certainly still otherwise why would daily crucifixion of the flesh be in scripture? I'm an uncertain of the exact scripture reference (and like I said I'm lukewarm/lazy today but I'll make an effort in an hour or so) Perhaps I misunderstand that element of a daily walk but I have learned that it is a daily discipline and dying not dead. Dead in the future as a certainty rooted in faith, but in the present not practically so.

 

[Lion222]

I consider Romans 7 portrayal being applied to a believer as a slave to sin and a wreathed man who does not good and is unable to do so even after being united in Spirit to the Spirit Of God Him Self is on of the enemies favorites.

 

[Lion222]

Mll what kicked it in the teeth for me was 1 Peter 1-2 making clearly that is is possible to cease from sin in this life in order to live the rest of your life no longer for the lusts of the flesh but for the will of God.
Because if you don't believe it is possible or that God can do it or that it is expected or necessary to start living for Gods glory then how can you ever seek the removal of any sin from Gods hand since you are always coming in unbelief?

The only option left to me then was to either get out a black marker and start redacting or just accept Gods word on face value that is was possible necessary and intended. Which then put to rest every other verse I ever struggled with. Now it was on God to make it happen and me to believe him for it and it changed everything.

 

[Lion222]

1 Peter 4:1-2