Christian Survey

[posthuman]

I read a great commentary this morning on offense. the source of being offended is pride. there is no room for being offended if you have love for others and forgive their hostility. the urge to feel offended fades as we become more like HIM.

peace and blessings today and always

yes

and so we are told, take the lowest seat. consider others more than ourselves.
because so He came - to serve, not to be served. meek and lowly - yet holding all things together, before all things, the source and the end of all things.

 

[posthuman]

batyah the heretic signing off.

why?

it would be sad for you to go

 

[posthuman]

God's Law is eternal. The temple rules are null because there is no temple.

isn't that a contradiction?
i mean, this is the 'not one jot or tittle' argument -- but immediately after stating it you say like 1/3 or more of the jots and tittles are passed away.

 

[posthuman]

isn't that a contradiction?
i mean, this is the 'not one jot or tittle' argument -- but immediately after stating it you say like 1/3 or more of the jots and tittles are passed away.

i would like to point out -- that not one single jot or tittle of the law - not even the temple ordinances or the sacrifices associated with every sabbath and every feast, nor the everlasting covenant of salt making Levi the only priest, nor circumcision, nor any other thing in Moses, has to pass away in order for a dead man to be completely unaccountable to any and all of it.

this is salvation, friend @Batyah
it is through His death and resurrection that we have eternal life. He is perfect.

 

[posthuman]

I believe the church started in the wilderness. when God told His people that (paraphrased)" if you will be my people and I will be your God, then this is how I run things. These are the rules. Here's how you will build my temple, how you will approach worship, what days are Holy, etc. the first tabernacle was the first assembly of this set-apart nation.

i believe in Exodus 16, before they are given the covenant and its law, He gives them manna and a weekly sabbath in order to test/prove them, and that they failed. i.e. something about them was demonstrated.
after this He gives them a covenant.

i do not believe the covenant and its law which He gave them is unrelated to what was demonstrated about them in Exodus 16. in fact i believe He gave them a very specific covenant and law directly and intrinsically related to what they said and thought and did as He took them out of Egypt. remember, from the beginning they were accusing Him of being a murderer and a liar.

do you know, what is the corresponding event in Christ's ministry to this proving, and subsequent giving of a new covenant and new commandment? why and how that the law came through Moses, and grace and truth through the Messiah?

 

[oldethennew]

Post,
you've run your course, and 'won'...
please rest in His peace...

 

[tourist]

okay. more clear now.
question - what does that mean to you? what happens to the commandments God wrote with His finger in stone?
are they void? do we obey them? do we only use them as a guide and it doesn't matter if we break them 'cause we're under grace now so the blood of Christ covers our screw-ups? I just wanna be clear on what mainstream Christianity believes in how to treat God's Laws.
Not trying to argue or create rifts, just merely wishing to understand other's views and how they approach interpreting the verse in Colossians (2.14) about the decrees against us being nailed to the cross. It does not refer to the entire law being wiped out but the death sentence (decree against us) being wiped out.

thanks again for any input. I really enjoyed reading your responses. very very enlightening and I found myself in unison of thought on a few subjects as well.

have a great day

You absolutely obey the 10 Commandments.

 

[Adstar]

Hello fellow believers. Being new here, I wanted to get to know the members and one way of doing that is to get a general consensus on what we all believe. It is just a tool for taking a sample of views from a group of believers to identify where we agree on the basic tenets of the Christian faith.
I have compiled an informal poll/survey with 20 questions that I would so GREATLY appreciate a response to from whoever wishes to participate.
The first half is simple yes or no questions about what you truly believe. The balance is questions that require something other than yes or no.
A simple few sentences will suffice or even quoting the scripture you feel directly applies to what it is you believe. You may also feel free to expound on any question/topic by private message if you wish so as not to get the thread off track. Simply ignore any questions you don't know the answer to or don't wish to discuss. The one thing I ask, at this point, is that you reply from your heart. That you answer only what you are sure of. If you don't know, say "don't know". Please do not go dig for answers on bible gateway before replying. This must be things that you have already studied and decided as Truth, what you believe to be true.
His Word should be written on our hearts.
Please know that I am only trying to gauge what it is the "church" believes as a whole.
They say that there are 22 million 'so-called' Christians in the world. Yet so many are unsure of what they believe and there are so many doctrines
being taught with various applications in Protestant and Catholic churches around the globe. So I would like to take samples of some communities, online and in local congregations. (I will be mailing this to pastors of local churches as well.)

Peace and Love and Blessings to all of you in the name of the Messiah.

1. Do you believe Christians go to Heaven when they die?

Yes.. some do.. Not all..

2. Do you believe unsaved sinners go to Hell when they die?

Yes.

3. Do you believe that Jesus died on a Friday?

No. I believe Jesus was executed on a Wednesday..

4. Do you believe that God desires Christians to celebrate His Son's birthday annually?

No.. There is no call in the Bible to celebrate the birthday of Jesus and also the actual day is not known by men..

5. Do you believe that it pleases God for Christians to commemorate the resurrection annually on Easter Sunday?

No..

6. Do you believe that Sunday is a Holy Day?

No..

7. Do you believe the earth is 6000 years old?

No..

8. Do you believe that the Church was formed and began during the events that took place in the second chapter of Acts?

I believe the church began the moment the Holy Spirit entered into the apostles on the day of Pentecost.

9. Was Abraham Jewish?

He was the beginning of the Hebrew nation.. of which the Jews ( tribe of Judah ) was a part.

10. Do you believe it is okay for openly gay people to serve in any position in the church congregation?

No..

11. Do you believe the OT Law was nailed to the cross and thus made void at the death of Jesus?

I believe Jesus death removed the penalty of the Law from those who believe Him and trust in the atonement Jesus secured on the cross..

12. What is the fourth commandment?

Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy..

13. What day of the week did John receive the Revelation of the Christ on the island of Patmos?

(Revelation 1:10) "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

The Lord's Day..

14. How many 24hr periods (complete days) was Jesus dead in the grave?

Three 24 hr periods..

15. What does the Word of God instruct on how to perform a wedding ceremony?

I don't know..

16. What does the Word of God instruct on how and when to administer communion?

It does not instruct when to as far as i know..

17. How many books are there in the Bible?

66

18. What sign did God say would be between He and His people that would indicate to the world who are His?

He said they would do many signs.. But that they would Love each other..

19. What is God's name?

God does not have a name.. He has acceptable titles.. Of which LORD is one..

20. What is the Gospel? Define and describe briefly the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached, the apostles preached and His Church is commissioned to go into the world and preach?

That Jesus is the Son of God who came down to lay down His life as a sacrifice as the perfect and unblemished Lamb of God.. His death paid the penalty that was upon all people who believe Him and Trust in that atonement he provides to Redeem them..

 

[CherieR]

Hello fellow believers. Being new here, I wanted to get to know the members and one way of doing that is to get a general consensus on what we all believe. It is just a tool for taking a sample of views from a group of believers to identify where we agree on the basic tenets of the Christian faith.
I have compiled an informal poll/survey with 20 questions that I would so GREATLY appreciate a response to from whoever wishes to participate.
The first half is simple yes or no questions about what you truly believe. The balance is questions that require something other than yes or no.
A simple few sentences will suffice or even quoting the scripture you feel directly applies to what it is you believe. You may also feel free to expound on any question/topic by private message if you wish so as not to get the thread off track. Simply ignore any questions you don't know the answer to or don't wish to discuss. The one thing I ask, at this point, is that you reply from your heart. That you answer only what you are sure of. If you don't know, say "don't know". Please do not go dig for answers on bible gateway before replying. This must be things that you have already studied and decided as Truth, what you believe to be true.
His Word should be written on our hearts.
Please know that I am only trying to gauge what it is the "church" believes as a whole.
They say that there are 22 million 'so-called' Christians in the world. Yet so many are unsure of what they believe and there are so many doctrines
being taught with various applications in Protestant and Catholic churches around the globe. So I would like to take samples of some communities, online and in local congregations. (I will be mailing this to pastors of local churches as well.)

Peace and Love and Blessings to all of you in the name of the Messiah.

1. Do you believe Christians go to Heaven when they die?
2. Do you believe unsaved sinners go to Hell when they die?
3. Do you believe that Jesus died on a Friday?
4. Do you believe that God desires Christians to celebrate His Son's birthday annually?
5. Do you believe that it pleases God for Christians to commemorate the resurrection annually on Easter Sunday?
6. Do you believe that Sunday is a Holy Day?
7. Do you believe the earth is 6000 years old?
8. Do you believe that the Church was formed and began during the events that took place in the second chapter of Acts?
9. Was Abraham Jewish?
10. Do you believe it is okay for openly gay people to serve in any position in the church congregation?
11. Do you believe the OT Law was nailed to the cross and thus made void at the death of Jesus?

12. What is the fourth commandment?
13. What day of the week did John receive the Revelation of the Christ on the island of Patmos?
14. How many 24hr periods (complete days) was Jesus dead in the grave?
15. What does the Word of God instruct on how to perform a wedding ceremony?
16. What does the Word of God instruct on how and when to administer communion?
17. How many books are there in the Bible?
18. What sign did God say would be between He and His people that would indicate to the world who are His?
19. What is God's name?
20. What is the Gospel? Define and describe briefly the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached, the apostles preached and His Church is commissioned to go into the world and preach?

Again, I ask that you answer off the top of your head. I don't need to know you can go look something up. If you don't know, don't answer.
Quote the scripture if you already know it. After you have replied to survey, then, by all means, take the questions and your Bible and go get with your tutor, the Spirit of the Holy One and seek the Truth.

Thanks so much to those who respond and peace and love to anyone as well that sits this one out!

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. I'm not sure what day it was
4. I believe Christians are free to celebrate Jesus birthday any time of the year. It is a wonderful truth that Jesus came for us.
5. Yes, Jesus resurrection is something to be celebrated always and not just on Easter. Easter is a day many come to church more and thus and opportunity for more to come to faith in Christ.
6. I believe each day is special. Life is a miracle. In Heaven , God's will is done each day. On earth there is good and evil that happens each day. When Jesus comes back, he will make things right again and the earth will be new.
7. I don't know how old the earth. I don't see the age of the earth as a core Christian doctrine.
8. I believe the church was forming long before the events of the book of Acts. I believe the church was forming even in the Old Testament.
9. Yes
10. I believe people who are openly gay and practicing should be allowed to sing and serve each other in the church but I would geel uncomfortable with them preaching/teaching.
11. I don't know what you mean by the OT law made void. I believe we should love God and love people. That is the main thing. The dietary laws in Leviticus promote a healthy diet and the Sabbath a day of rest. Both rest and a good diet are good and healthy. Both the dietary laws and Sabbath are great principles for health.
12. Honor your Father and Mother?
13. Not sure
14. Jesus rose again on the third day. I'm not sure how the 3rd day was measured. Jesus rose again and his body " did not see decay. "
17. 66
18. Our love for one another
19. God is known by many names: Savior, Lord, Jesus, Father, Holy Spirit, Counselor, God Almighty etc. I would love to know his name that he spoke to Moses in the burning bush.
20. Jesus came for us all. He died on the cross to pay for our sins and rose again the third day. Believe on the Lord Jesus, receive him and trust in Jesus to be your Savior. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and not something we can earn or lose.

 

[surfer14]

Hey @Batyah,

I took your questions, did a little modification to them and we all answered them individually it in our bi-weekly quasi-Bible study last night. It worked out really well. It was a great change of pace. Thanks for the idea. Cool thing was that everyone had different answers for the death/resurrection questions. So we decided that was going to be the focus of our next series that we're going to go into.

 

[DJZawada]

He who confesses not, that Jesus is Lord is antichrist.

Confess therefore that Jesus is your redeemer and savior from sin and you shall inherit the gift of eternal life.

 

[p_rehbein]

Ok here is what I disagreed with LOL

"Just pointing out that your "request" goes well beyond what any person here should have to provide to any other member here. "

That happens all the time LOL

Yes, it does, and, yes, it's well beyond what any member should have to provide to any other member here...... IF someone wants to learn about others, they can invest the time in reading comments/Threads, speaking with other members and growing in knowledge of those here on CC. NOT issue an APPLICATION to be filled out.

It's like some Denominations do when deciding IF they will let a person join their Congregation/Denomination. Just because it's done a whole bunch doesn't make it right, huh?

 

[p_rehbein]

He is preparing His people (that yes, early on was predominantly of the Hebrew persuasion) for the Kingdom. And frankly I find it so sad that some who claim to worship this same God have such a disdain for His Laws and people who love and try to keep them.

So, are you saying we must live by the Laws of the 1st Covenant to inherit eternal life?

 

[CS1]

Yes, it does, and, yes, it's well beyond what any member should have to provide to any other member here...... IF someone wants to learn about others, they can invest the time in reading comments/Threads, speaking with other members and growing in knowledge of those here on CC. NOT issue an APPLICATION to be filled out.

It's like some Denominations do when deciding IF they will let a person join their Congregation/Denomination. Just because it's done a whole bunch doesn't make it right, huh?

FYI no one is making you answer anything. You can simply do not answer and CC will not care LOL.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hello fellow believers. Being new here, I wanted to get to know the members and one way of doing that is to get a general consensus on what we all believe. It is just a tool for taking a sample of views from a group of believers to identify where we agree on the basic tenets of the Christian faith.
I have compiled an informal poll/survey with 20 questions that I would so GREATLY appreciate a response to from whoever wishes to participate.
The first half is simple yes or no questions about what you truly believe. The balance is questions that require something other than yes or no.
A simple few sentences will suffice or even quoting the scripture you feel directly applies to what it is you believe. You may also feel free to expound on any question/topic by private message if you wish so as not to get the thread off track. Simply ignore any questions you don't know the answer to or don't wish to discuss. The one thing I ask, at this point, is that you reply from your heart. That you answer only what you are sure of. If you don't know, say "don't know". Please do not go dig for answers on bible gateway before replying. This must be things that you have already studied and decided as Truth, what you believe to be true.
His Word should be written on our hearts.
Please know that I am only trying to gauge what it is the "church" believes as a whole.
They say that there are 22 million 'so-called' Christians in the world. Yet so many are unsure of what they believe and there are so many doctrines
being taught with various applications in Protestant and Catholic churches around the globe. So I would like to take samples of some communities, online and in local congregations. (I will be mailing this to pastors of local churches as well.)

Peace and Love and Blessings to all of you in the name of the Messiah.

1. Do you believe Christians go to Heaven when they die?
2. Do you believe unsaved sinners go to Hell when they die?
3. Do you believe that Jesus died on a Friday?
4. Do you believe that God desires Christians to celebrate His Son's birthday annually?
5. Do you believe that it pleases God for Christians to commemorate the resurrection annually on Easter Sunday?
6. Do you believe that Sunday is a Holy Day?
7. Do you believe the earth is 6000 years old?
8. Do you believe that the Church was formed and began during the events that took place in the second chapter of Acts?
9. Was Abraham Jewish?
10. Do you believe it is okay for openly gay people to serve in any position in the church congregation?
11. Do you believe the OT Law was nailed to the cross and thus made void at the death of Jesus?

No Further Response

12. What is the fourth commandment?
13. What day of the week did John receive the Revelation of the Christ on the island of Patmos?
14. How many 24hr periods (complete days) was Jesus dead in the grave?
15. What does the Word of God instruct on how to perform a wedding ceremony?
16. What does the Word of God instruct on how and when to administer communion?
17. How many books are there in the Bible?
18. What sign did God say would be between He and His people that would indicate to the world who are His?
19. What is God's name?
20. What is the Gospel? Define and describe briefly the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached, the apostles preached and His Church is commissioned to go into the world and preach?

Again, I ask that you answer off the top of your head. I don't need to know you can go look something up. If you don't know, don't answer.
Quote the scripture if you already know it. After you have replied to survey, then, by all means, take the questions and your Bible and go get with your tutor, the Spirit of the Holy One and seek the Truth.

Thanks so much to those who respond and peace and love to anyone as well that sits this one out!

1. Do you believe Christians go to Heaven when they die? Yes
2. Do you believe unsaved sinners go to Hell when they die? Yes
3. Do you believe that Jesus died on a Friday? Possible Tradition?
4. Do you believe that God desires Christians to celebrate His Son's birthday annually? No Pagan Origin
5. Do you believe that it pleases God for Christians to commemorate the resurrection annually on Easter Sunday? No Pagan Origin
6. Do you believe that Sunday is a Holy Day? No, mandated in 321 AD by Emperor Constantine
7. Do you believe the earth is 6000 years old? Yes Young Earth
8. Do you believe that the Church was formed and began during the events that took place in the second chapter of Acts? Yes
9. Was Abraham Jewish? NA
10. Do you believe it is okay for openly gay people to serve in any position in the church congregation? No
11. Do you believe the OT Law was nailed to the cross and thus made void at the death of Jesus? Yes, Excepting The 10 Commandments


Amen!

 

[garee]

Hello fellow believers. Being new here, I wanted to get to know the members and one way of doing that is to get a general consensus on what we all believe. It is just a tool for taking a sample of views from a group of believers to identify where we agree on the basic tenets of the Christian faith.
I have compiled an informal poll/survey with 20 questions that I would so GREATLY appreciate a response to from whoever wishes to participate.
The first half is simple yes or no questions about what you truly believe. The balance is questions that require something other than yes or no.
A simple few sentences will suffice or even quoting the scripture you feel directly applies to what it is you believe. You may also feel free to expound on any question/topic by private message if you wish so as not to get the thread off track. Simply ignore any questions you don't know the answer to or don't wish to discuss. The one thing I ask, at this point, is that you reply from your heart. That you answer only what you are sure of. If you don't know, say "don't know". Please do not go dig for answers on bible gateway before replying. This must be things that you have already studied and decided as Truth, what you believe to be true.
His Word should be written on our hearts.
Please know that I am only trying to gauge what it is the "church" believes as a whole.
They say that there are 22 million 'so-called' Christians in the world. Yet so many are unsure of what they believe and there are so many doctrines
being taught with various applications in Protestant and Catholic churches around the globe. So I would like to take samples of some communities, online and in local congregations. (I will be mailing this to pastors of local churches as well.)

Peace and Love and Blessings to all of you in the name of the Messiah.

1. Do you believe Christians go to Heaven when they die?
2. Do you believe unsaved sinners go to Hell when they die?
3. Do you believe that Jesus died on a Friday?
4. Do you believe that God desires Christians to celebrate His Son's birthday annually?
5. Do you believe that it pleases God for Christians to commemorate the resurrection annually on Easter Sunday?
6. Do you believe that Sunday is a Holy Day?
7. Do you believe the earth is 6000 years old?
8. Do you believe that the Church was formed and began during the events that took place in the second chapter of Acts?
9. Was Abraham Jewish?
10. Do you believe it is okay for openly gay people to serve in any position in the church congregation?
11. Do you believe the OT Law was nailed to the cross and thus made void at the death of Jesus?

12. What is the fourth commandment?
13. What day of the week did John receive the Revelation of the Christ on the island of Patmos?
14. How many 24hr periods (complete days) was Jesus dead in the grave?
15. What does the Word of God instruct on how to perform a wedding ceremony?
16. What does the Word of God instruct on how and when to administer communion?
17. How many books are there in the Bible?
18. What sign did God say would be between He and His people that would indicate to the world who are His?
19. What is God's name?
20. What is the Gospel? Define and describe briefly the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached, the apostles preached and His Church is commissioned to go into the world and preach?

Again, I ask that you answer off the top of your head. I don't need to know you can go look something up. If you don't know, don't answer.
Quote the scripture if you already know it. After you have replied to survey, then, by all means, take the questions and your Bible and go get with your tutor, the Spirit of the Holy One and seek the Truth.

Thanks so much to those who respond and peace and love to anyone as well that sits this one out!

1. yes
2.no
3.no
4. no
5. no
6. yes
7.no
8.no
9. no
10. no
11. no

12. A ceremonial law as a shadow.
13. The lords day. The first day of the week ,the day God said said let there be children of light.
14. The last of the three days
15. It does not give a literal instruction.
16. As a ceremonial law that speaks of the true fast. whenever men gather together to do the will of bread of heaven.
17. One book made up of many chapters (66)
18. No outward signs one inwardly .The Spirit of Christ as the power of God that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.
19. God does not have a name as you or I . All the names represent the immutable attributes of God .
20.The gospel is the working of God working in us from faith to faith. The unseen to the unseen . It as the power of God reveals the mind of Christ.

Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith (Christ's) both of you and me.

Romans 1:15-17 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith (Christ')to faith: (Christ')as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Blik]

why are people so skeptical?
I'm well aware that mainstream Christians practice a different doctrine than I. That is by no means news to me.
Why must I go find other sabbath keepers to talk to? Nor do I wish to fellowship with unbelieving Hebrews who practice Judaism.
I wish to only share the wonderful life and blessings that are found within the pages of Holy Scripture, the Word of God.
That's why I do not have an affiliation with any man-made denomination, catholic, protestant or otherwise.
I do not believe Jesus came to start a new religion. I'm getting back to basics and learning about the God of the Bible, not the church of religiosity. I have been blessed to find a couple congregations within 50 miles of me that I can fellowship with that do not teach for doctrine the customs of man.
If you are any of the other believers here or elsewhere are truly sure of what you believe then you should be confident in claiming it.
I respect you and your view of what comprises a Christian walk and relationship with the Heavenly Father.

I hope others here will be able to respect mine. Minority view such as it is.

peace in Him

There is a new wave of Christians who do not believe Christ started a new religion. They are the minority, but they have scripture on their side.

I believe the Lord saw that man is going away from the truth and believing in man rather than scripture many times. The Lord tells us feasts were to celebrate salvation for all generations, today's church tells us God cancelled them because they are only Jewish custom. Today's church says that being under grace means that the law is cancelled. Today's church believe that Mary cancelled the creation of Sabbath on the last day of the week. Often, if we listen to scripture we are called Judinizers, not believing in the salvation Christ gives us through Him.

I really think the Lord is seeing these things and as the Lord is eternal knew of their happening long ago in our time. God had the deep sea scrolls hidden for 2,000 years and now the ancient history they contain is brought to our world. It has helped scholars understand the Father, and that brings about an understanding of Christ. That knowledge is slowly being accepted as it filters down through the church. It follows scripture, not man, so the truth will prevail.

 

[garee]

There is a new wave of Christians who do not believe Christ started a new religion. They are the minority, but they have scripture on their side.

I believe the Lord saw that man is going away from the truth and believing in man rather than scripture many times. The Lord tells us feasts were to celebrate salvation for all generations, today's church tells us God cancelled them because they are only Jewish custom. Today's church says that being under grace means that the law is cancelled. Today's church believe that Mary cancelled the creation of Sabbath on the last day of the week. Often, if we listen to scripture we are called Judinizers, not believing in the salvation Christ gives us through Him.

I really think the Lord is seeing these things and as the Lord is eternal knew of their happening long ago in our time. God had the deep sea scrolls hidden for 2,000 years and now the ancient history they contain is brought to our world. It has helped scholars understand the Father, and that brings about an understanding of Christ. That knowledge is slowly being accepted as it filters down through the church. It follows scripture, not man, so the truth will prevail.

What do you mean some do not believe Christ started a new religion and they have scripture as their witness?. Which new religion ?


And how did the deep sea scrolls hidden when found help understand more that what the Bible reveals? Are the scrolls another witness or the same?

 

[Blik]

What do you mean some do not believe Christ started a new religion and they have scripture as their witness?. Which new religion ?


And how did the deep sea scrolls hidden when found help understand more that what the Bible reveals? Are the scrolls another witness or the same?

I most certainly do not believe that Christ started a new religion, Christ fulfilled what the Father did. Get a modern minister to explain what he thinks of the OT for you, or read some of these posts.

I am not about to even attempt to give you all the information found in the deep sea scrolls. If you are interested look them up for yourself. Many posters and modern churches scoff at them. It makes you understand the Jews needing to learn about Christ in a minor way but the principle is the same.

 

[garee]

I most certainly do not believe that Christ started a new religion, Christ fulfilled what the Father did. Get a modern minister to explain what he thinks of the OT for you, or read some of these posts.

I am not about to even attempt to give you all the information found in the deep sea scrolls. If you are interested look them up for yourself. Many posters and modern churches scoff at them. It makes you understand the Jews needing to learn about Christ in a minor way but the principle is the same.

Its not scoffing but what advantage seeing we have the whole.