We already have peace with God

[Runningman]

Some people read John 3:16 and jump to the conclusion that now that they believe in God's promise of salvation through faith in Christ that now they will not face any hardships, depression, trials, tribulations. Nothing could be further from the truth.

What is sometimes misunderstood, often by those new to the faith, is that God sent His Son into the world to save them from spiritual death, not save them from mortal death, inconveniences, etc.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes, indeed, peace with our Maker, but not on earth for all men.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Bbrdrd]

If we are truly new creations then we will manifest the righteousness we claim lives within us. We are not simply declared righteous by God but made righteous.

This righteousness necessarily brings strife because it testifies that men's works are evil. It testifies that the love of this world is evil. It testifies to those in darkness that they will be judged.

And those who are not drawn into the light through love hate those who testify against them.

If the master was not spared that hatred, why would those of us who serve Him be left in peace? If they had no fear to put to death Christ, why should they temper their hatred for His heirs?

Friendship with the world is enmity against God and as such there is only the peace of trust in the promises for those who do His will.

 

[JaumeJ]

Speak for yourself.

This is exactly what I have done. Do you see peace on earth? I certainly do not.

 

[oldethennew]

AMEN Brother Jack...
'Great Peace who they that Love Thy Law,
and nothing shall offend them'...

 

[Deuteronomy]

Have you ever noticed that so many of our churches have a very large list of different human carnal rules and regulations they try to get us to live by? Our churches today have far too many ways they keep trying to get us to redeem ourselves and obtain our own righteousness.

Hello Peterlag, I realize that there are a large number of established ecclesiastical rules that must be followed in the Roman Catholic Church (Sacerdotalism, for instance).

Setting the RCC aside for the time being however, what kinds of things do we find on the list of "carnal rules and regulations" that our other churches and denominations have and insist that we must keep if we wish to, "redeem ourselves and obtain our own righteousness"

Thanks!

~Deut

 

[Lion222]

Speak for yourself.

If they hate you it is because they hated Jesus f

Hello Peterlag, I realize that there are a large number of established ecclesiastical rules that must be followed in the Roman Catholic Church (Sacerdotalism, for instance).

Setting the RCC aside for the time being however, what kinds of things do we find on the list of "carnal rules and regulations" that our other churches and denominations have and insist that we must keep if we wish to, "redeem ourselves and obtain our own righteousness"

Thanks!

~Deut

This would be my rule.

all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
“God opposes the proud,
but gives grace to the humble.”
Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand,
so that in due time He may exalt you.

rather then oppose to you.

 

[Deuteronomy]

This would be my rule.

all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
“God opposes the proud,
but gives grace to the humble.”
Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand,
so that in due time He may exalt you.

rather then oppose to you.

Hello Lion222, @Peterlag's OP spoke of a list of "carnal" (not Biblical/spiritual) rules and regs that many of our churches insist that we keep (if we wish to 'save ourselves/make ourselves righteous'). 1 Peter 5:5-6 is a wonderful, Biblical admonishment, but I'm not sure how you see it fitting into the kind of list that he was talking about in the OP

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you however? If so, please tell me what you mean.

Thanks

~Deut

 

[Peterlag]

If they hate you it is because they hated Jesus f

This would be my rule.

all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
“God opposes the proud,
but gives grace to the humble.”
Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand,
so that in due time He may exalt you.

rather then oppose to you.

Thanks for sharing... "If they hate you it's because they hated Jesus first."

 

[Peterlag]

Hello Peterlag, I realize that there are a large number of established ecclesiastical rules that must be followed in the Roman Catholic Church (Sacerdotalism, for instance).

Setting the RCC aside for the time being however, what kinds of things do we find on the list of "carnal rules and regulations" that our other churches and denominations have and insist that we must keep if we wish to, "redeem ourselves and obtain our own righteousness"

Thanks!

~Deut

I'm afraid the list is endless. I stopped trying to get the spirit of Christ to work for me. I am now walking in or after it. The reason I cannot lust in the flesh when following after the spirit is because it's impossible to do so since the spirit of Christ does not lust after the flesh. Religious people don't follow after the spirit, but rather they follow after their flesh and call it spiritual. The religious folks lead with their flesh and call it Christian. The church folks clean up their flesh by making themselves nice. Then they say this is Christian because we are being nice like the way Jesus was. In contrast to that, I believe we should walk after the spirit of Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

This is exactly what I have done. Do you see peace on earth? I certainly do not.

The verse does not say have peace on the earth. It says have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[Peterlag]

If we are truly new creations then we will manifest the righteousness we claim lives within us. We are not simply declared righteous by God but made righteous.

This righteousness necessarily brings strife because it testifies that men's works are evil. It testifies that the love of this world is evil. It testifies to those in darkness that they will be judged.

And those who are not drawn into the light through love hate those who testify against them.

If the master was not spared that hatred, why would those of us who serve Him be left in peace? If they had no fear to put to death Christ, why should they temper their hatred for His heirs?

Friendship with the world is enmity against God and as such there is only the peace of trust in the promises for those who do His will.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[JaumeJ]

The verse does not say have peace on the earth. It says have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

You did not see that I was responding to the previous posts the onein particular saying Jesus was supposed to bring peace on earth, a line from a Christmas carol, not from the Word. All who believ are given His peace only.. Now do you still see peace on earth...>

 

[Deuteronomy]

I'm afraid the list is endless. I stopped trying to get the spirit of Christ to work for me. I am now walking in or after it. The reason I cannot lust in the flesh when following after the spirit is because it's impossible to do so since the spirit of Christ does not lust after the flesh. Religious people don't follow after the spirit, but rather they follow after their flesh and call it spiritual. The religious folks lead with their flesh and call it Christian. The church folks clean up their flesh by making themselves nice. Then they say this is Christian because we are being nice like the way Jesus was. In contrast to that, I believe we should walk after the spirit of Christ.

Hello again Peterlag, I'm afraid that I'm still confused. You told us that our churches teach us certain "carnal rules and regulations" so that we can "redeem ourselves" and "obtain our own righteousness".

What are some of the things on the "endless list" that you mentioned, the "carnal rules and regulations" that you've said our non-Catholic churches are teaching us, specifically (as I do not understand what you are referring to)

Thanks!

~Deut

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You did not see that I was responding to the previous posts the onein particular saying Jesus was supposed to bring peace on earth, a line from a Christmas carol, not from the Word. All who believ are given His peace only.. Now do you still see peace on earth...>

"Peace on earth" is actually from Luke 2 and possibly the Christmas carol referred to that verse as well:

Luke 2:

8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.


However, the Prince of peace was rejected and continues to be rejected by some. Those who follow Him do have His peace ... Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid - John 14:27.

 

[JaumeJ]

I am very happy to have read your closing statement regarding that hymn

People will always have peace in Jesus and fro His disciples..........but that vast number o non/believers cannot seem to get it togther. Of course that will not occur until our King returnss. Praise Jesus, amen

 

[Lion222]

Hello Lion222, @Peterlag's OP spoke of a list of "carnal" (not Biblical/spiritual) rules and regs that many of our churches insist that we keep (if we wish to 'save ourselves/make ourselves righteous'). 1 Peter 5:5-6 is a wonderful, Biblical admonishment, but I'm not sure how you see it fitting into the kind of list that he was talking about in the OP

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you however? If so, please tell me what you mean.

Thanks

~Deut

I did not get the full context of the discussion.
But I would apply that rule in such a way as to say
If you cant do this or you cant repent I would show them the door.
Put all the proud out the the fellowship.
Does that have a bearing on there salvation, IDK?
it could have an impact on the Church and its ability to shine and that could impact many.

That is what I was thinking

I was at a week long outdoor biblical concert/conference once.
It was packed the first day or so and people just kept coming.
By mid week all you heard and felt was people complaining about everything and just having a bad attitude overall.
I was like, God this is your Church?
Then the rains came down and the floods came up and most everyone left.
The ones who stayed lost most everything to the flood waters
The new people who came and saw the mess and did not turn and go home, those gave whatever they had to help climbed down into the mud with the rest us to lift us up.

God purified it and the spirit showed up and it was wonderful.
Everybody was dirty and smelled like mud in a farmers field, well fertilized.
We stood knee deep in it and worshiped God
You had to depend on each other locking arm and arm five or more to just get up the slippery trails or you would fall and slid all the way back down.
It was an example in mud and filth of how to do Church.
It only came after all the proud and arrogant ones where removed and She was make pure in sacrifice.

That will be the way of the fellowship I will build if God allows.

 

[Lion222]

"Peace on earth" is actually from Luke 2 and possibly the Christmas carol referred to that verse as well:

Luke 2:

8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.


However, the Prince of peace was rejected and continues to be rejected by some. Those who follow Him do have His peace ... Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid - John 14:27.

He gave us His peace.
So the peace of God on earth is us.
At the same time we are what divides the darkness.
His sword in us exposing those who hate the light.
Taking away their false peace.

He came with peace to take away our fears and that took away their peace.
He came not to judge but to shine and that was the Judgement because they loved the darkness.
The way up to greatness is the way down to humility and sacrifice.

I love how He just turns everything of the world on its head!
Frustrates it and put is to open shame.

 

[Batyah]

Wow I wish I would have thought of that, the JW are the ones who work for their spot in heaven right?

The JW's do not believe Jesus was God.
I love it when they come by. I usually invite them in for bible study. The first thing I read from the Bible is John 1.
When I ask them to read along in their bible, it reads different. Because they added to the scripture one word, one letter that changes the entire meaning. They believe that Jesus was A god, like we can all be gods. When I bring up the words of Jesus that say HE and the Father are ONE, they usually stutter and try to claim that means 'one in thought', on the same page.
They get tired of me pointing out their false doctrine and excuse themselves fairly quickly.
Matter of fact, haven't heard the doorbell on a Saturday morning in quite a while.
The Word of God is a sword and I use it to defend against the lies of Satan.

 

[Peterlag]

Hello again Peterlag, I'm afraid that I'm still confused. You told us that our churches teach us certain "carnal rules and regulations" so that we can "redeem ourselves" and "obtain our own righteousness".

What are some of the things on the "endless list" that you mentioned, the "carnal rules and regulations" that you've said our non-Catholic churches are teaching us, specifically (as I do not understand what you are referring to)

Thanks!

~Deut

Through the science of proper conduct, we seek to make the earth a better world to live in, to help people live morally by stimulating emotion, and working off imagination, human urges, and instincts. We teach for Christianity ways to enrich and elevate human life, and then we fashion our conscience through our own environment that we use to determine the direction of our character.

It's totally impossible for people to immortalize themselves and attain the righteousness of God by participating in sacraments such as to pray, praise, and give thanks. It's not the hymns, chorales, chants, or the instrumental music. It's not the buildings for worship, the art, the architecture, the kneeling, dipping, dunking, chanting, counting, lighting, confessing our sins or moral and political behavior.

Many Christians try to earn God’s righteousness by being a good person, a good member of their church, a good father or mother, or a good child. Some try by being a good worker, a good student, a wonderful husband or wife, and a good neighbor. Some try by singing more hymns, by running to the altar, by confessing their sins, and by being a law-abiding citizen. Others try by water baptism, the Old Testament Law, the rosary, fasting, giving to their church, and giving to the poor. These are all nice and wonderful dynamic moral commitments that, at best, are only the commandments of people.

Jesus once told the religious leaders of his time they were teaching for the truth of God’s Word, “the commandments of men.” It appears we continue to do the same in our day and time. People can never win the right to stand before God’s righteousness through their own traditions and ordinances, which at best, are only the consequences of the commandments of people. The only begotten Son, who is in the Father’s love, comfort, and rest, has declared and unfolded the concealed things of God once and for all. The world so desperately needs the light of the gospel of Christ, who has shown us the Father’s heart, so we who hunger and thirst after righteousness can be filled.